GI Bill: What is there to oppose? (Full Version)

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wing2000 -> GI Bill: What is there to oppose? (4/11/2008 12:21:39 AM)

quote:

WASHINGTON — For Sen. Jim Webb, it's a question of fairness: Why don't veterans of today's armed services get the same benefits the GI Bill provided "the greatest generation" after World War II?

The benefit would cover tuition and fees for the most expensive public university in any state where the veteran resides and pay an allowance for books and housing.

It also sets up a program so veterans could use the benefit to help pay tuition at more expensive private institutions. If the private school were willing to help the veteran with tuition cost, the government would match it dollar for dollar.


....yet the Pentagon is reportedly against the bill fearing it will lead to less re-enlistments...and only 52 Senators have signed on to the bill so far.

And President Bush believes the current college benefits are sufficient (ask a veteran if that is the case). And even more surprising, Senator John McCain has yet to throw his support behind the bill.

Is this what constitutes supporting our troops?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-03-29-gi-bill_N.htm



Leon_Figg3 -> RE: GI Bill: What is there to oppose? (4/11/2008 1:29:32 AM)

Let me begin by thanking you for bringing the subject of the GI Bill to everyone's attention like this. It's a little hard to keep up with all that is going on in the world much less in one's own life.

I think before we pass judgement on the bill, and who supports it and who doesn't support it, we need to take a look at a number of things. First of all we need to take a look at the state of higher education today and compare it to the state that higher education that existed when the GI Bill first came into existence. Back then there were relatively few colleges and universities. Higher education was considered expensive in those days, partially because there was so few institution, it only made common sense that the country thank its veterans by providing enough financial support for them to get into college.

Over the years, not only has the number of colleges grown so large and varied, but so has the tutition that these institutions of higher learning charge for the priviledge of having students attend them.

It no longer makes sense to provide veterans, who probably have more experience and understanding in their fields of study than their professors, by virtue of their military experience, with enough financial support to attend an Ivy Leaque university when there are so many other institutions of higher learning that are just as qualified and able to teach them as the more expensive places.

Also, a number of states, from my own understanding, have their own forms of the GI Bill through which they provide some financial support to veterans returning to school. That is something I do not believe existed when the old GI Bill came into existence.

Then there is the matter of the purpose and role that the GI Bill plays, and has played. In the past, I believe, it was mainly a reward for one's service to the country. It has since become a tool for the military to attract people and thus the military has a valid concern as to its (the Bill's) generosity and affect on the military's ability to retain experienced personal/ leaders.

Finally, if I am not mistaken, the GI Bill is figured into the defense budget, so the chances of a large defense appropration containing a huge increase in the GI Bill for veterans to go back to school (to an Ivy League college), will not have a very good chance of passing in the frst place.
I probably should read more about the bill, from looking just at the surface, the bill probably has a number of problems.

The bill may help people feel better about their support of the troops, or lack there of, by creating a piece of legislation that, for a time, will handsomely reward veterans the chance for higher education, but it is simply not realistic or reasonable, in the long run.



wing2000 -> RE: GI Bill: What is there to oppose? (4/12/2008 11:53:05 PM)

quote:

First of all we need to take a look at the state of higher education today and compare it to the state that higher education that existed when the GI Bill first came into existence. Back then there were relatively few colleges and universities. Higher education was considered expensive in those days, partially because there was so few institution, it only made common sense that the country thank its veterans by providing enough financial support for them to get into college.

Over the years, not only has the number of colleges grown so large and varied, but so has the tutition that these institutions of higher learning charge for the priviledge of having students attend them.

It no longer makes sense to provide veterans, who probably have more experience and understanding in their fields of study than their professors, by virtue of their military experience, with enough financial support to attend an Ivy Leaque university when there are so many other institutions of higher learning that are just as qualified and able to teach them as the more expensive places.


Yes, there are many more schools...the problem is the current Montgomery GI Bill does not cover the cost of attending even a state university. Our soldiers are serving multiple combat tours...the least we can do is pay for their higher education in the institution of their choosing.



betterisoneday -> RE: GI Bill: What is there to oppose? (4/13/2008 11:11:18 AM)

I've been active duty for 7 1/2 years now, we don't need more money from the GI Bill. (And yes, the majority of my co-workers agree with that statement.) You can get all or most of a degree while on active duty without using the GI Bill so you'll still have the whole thing left after you separate.

While you're active you can take CLEPs and DANTES for free, you're about half done with an associates after finishing training for most career fields, and you can take classes (online or at a school) and use Tuition Assistance, it pays between 75-100% of the class.

You talk with the education rep who will help you figure out which classes you need for what degree you want and they will give you all the options, whether there's a class on base (some have college classes during during lunch or after day shift hours), what colleges are most used in the surrounding area and often the education center has computers for you to use for online classes.



EverLearning -> RE: GI Bill: What is there to oppose? (4/13/2008 8:04:39 PM)

The GI bill is fine as is. My last check was for $1075 and that was mine every month for the duration of the time i was elligible. Those who are joining now have the opportunity to put in a little more and get even more in benefits. I think i got around $15,000 dollars over the course of acheiving my degree. The only thing that i would change is that the GI bill money shouldn't be counted as income when it comes to applying for grants and other financial aid.



wing2000 -> RE: GI Bill: What is there to oppose? (4/14/2008 11:20:17 PM)

quote:

I've been active duty for 7 1/2 years now, we don't need more money from the GI Bill. (And yes, the majority of my co-workers agree with that statement.) You can get all or most of a degree while on active duty without using the GI Bill so you'll still have the whole thing left after you separate.

While you're active you can take CLEPs and DANTES for free, you're about half done with an associates after finishing training for most career fields, and you can take classes (online or at a school) and use Tuition Assistance, it pays between 75-100% of the class.

You talk with the education rep who will help you figure out which classes you need for what degree you want and they will give you all the options, whether there's a class on base (some have college classes during during lunch or after day shift hours), what colleges are most used in the surrounding area and often the education center has computers for you to use for online classes.



That's fine if one is not in Iraq (or another war zone). In any case the GI Bill historically was designed to help troops after they left the mililitary.


For the peace time Army, I agree the current Montgomery GI Bill is sufficient. I used that program to assist in paying for college in the late 1980's.

However, during time of war...and in particularly in this war when many troops have severed multiple combat tours, I believe we need to be more generous with our troops.



betterisoneday -> RE: GI Bill: What is there to oppose? (4/16/2008 9:42:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wing2000

That's fine if one is not in Iraq (or another war zone).


Many of those deployed do find/make the time to take classes when they're back home and some even are able to take online classes while deployed (depending on location, job, etc).

We don't need to go to the most expensive school in the nation, if we're staying in our career field we already have enough training to get a certificate or at the very least an associates degree.

Most people don't even use the GI Bill, there's no reason to increase it's funding. Those who do plan to use it can pay extra in and get theirs increased a bit already.



walkin2e -> RE: GI Bill: What is there to oppose? (4/17/2008 7:10:23 AM)

quote:

You can get all or most of a degree while on active duty without using the GI Bill so you'll still have the whole thing left after you separate.

While you're active you can take CLEPs and DANTES for free, you're about half done with an associates after finishing training for most career fields, and you can take classes (online or at a school) and use Tuition Assistance, it pays between 75-100% of the class.


When I enlisted (way back yonder in 1971), the GI bill was considered an extra incentive for enlisting. However, I ended up spending almost 16 years on active duty, and I managed to get a college degree by using the methods quoted above (took me 13 years and I had 180 semester hours). I remember taking college classes during my lunchtime(the commander gave us an extra 15 minutes). If I recall correctly, I only used three months worth of the GI bill (had 45 months left but couldn't use it as it expired before I completed active duty).

We as a nation owe much to our veterans...especially during these trying times. The current system, I believe, works for most...the old GI bill was used by many, but others never took advantage of it (or had the opportunity).

walkin2e



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