quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

Annie,

Problem is, the authority of the school does not out-do the authority of the Constitution.

But, I see what you are saying.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Annie64

Normally I defend people who are discriminated against for being Christians, but in this case, I'm not so sure. It seems to me that if the student did this, knowing the policy, he did it to deliberately provoke a reaction. And when he tore up a copy of the policy in front of the teacher and received a detention for it, it seems to me that he deserved the detention, if only for his attitude. The policy may be wrong, and I think it probably is wrong, but it IMHO, the boy was forgetting that he was under authority in the school. The Bible is clear that when we are under authority, we are under authority, even if that authority is godless. As long as they aren't demanding that we do anything antithetical to our faith, we're supposed to obey. There will still be plenty of examples of persecution if we maintain a Christ-like attitude. Discrimination and persecution doesn't need to be provoked.

quote:

ORIGINAL: upNORTder

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

Annie,

Problem is, the authority of the school does not out-do the authority of the Constitution.

But, I see what you are saying.

Neither one out does the authority of God.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Annie64

I agree the policy was wrong. I just don't think the kid has done himself or his cause any favors being so arrogant about it. Tearing up the copy of the policy in front of the teacher when she handed it to him? Come on! That's not the way to be lambs among wolves!

quote:

I don't disagree there. His attorneys are potraying it in a "civil disobedience" light. How is this for a compromise - The school agrees to change their policy, grade his work, and not infringe on the religious rights of students, but the two detentions stay on his record because he did not follow proper channels and refused to submit to school authority?

quote:

ORIGINAL: gengwall

I can't believe this story slipped under the radar here...

An attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal advocacy group representing the student, said Tuesday that Tinker v. Des Moines Community School District, a landmark 1969 case that upheld a student’s right to free speech, will be applied on behalf of a student who received a failing grade for an art project that included religious content. The family of “A.P.” filed a federal lawsuit Friday in the U.S. District court in Madison.

http://www.tomahjournal.com/articles/2008/04/06/news/00lead.txt
http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/news/story.aspx?cid=4442

quote:

ORIGINAL: kernsfamily

quote:

ORIGINAL: gengwall

I can't believe this story slipped under the radar here...

An attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal advocacy group representing the student, said Tuesday that Tinker v. Des Moines Community School District, a landmark 1969 case that upheld a student’s right to free speech, will be applied on behalf of a student who received a failing grade for an art project that included religious content. The family of “A.P.” filed a federal lawsuit Friday in the U.S. District court in Madison.

http://www.tomahjournal.com/articles/2008/04/06/news/00lead.txt
http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/news/story.aspx?cid=4442

What idiots those administrators are....

If only they would pay attention to their annual "Guidance on Constitutionally Protected Prayer in Public Elementary and Secondary Schools" sent out by the U.S. Department of Education, which goes into great detail regarding issues such as this.

IF they bothered to read it, they would see CLEARLY:

Religious Expression and Prayer in Class Assignments
Students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions. Such home and classroom work should be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance and against other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school. Thus, if a teacher's assignment involves writing a poem, the work of a student who submits a poem in the form of a prayer (for example, a psalm) should be judged on the basis of academic standards (such as literary quality) and neither penalized nor rewarded on account of its religious content.

http://www.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/religionandschools/prayer_guidance.html

BUT....this just "fuels" the myth out there....that it's "Against the Law" or whatever to pray, read bibles or do anything like that at school (which isn't true).....

Propagandists out there will take this story, as is....and run with it....but, won't "follow up" and explain later that they were found to be "mistaken" with regards to the rights of the student and "freedom of expression"....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Annie64

Normally I defend people who are discriminated against for being Christians, but in this case, I'm not so sure. It seems to me that if the student did this, knowing the policy, he did it to deliberately provoke a reaction. And when he tore up a copy of the policy in front of the teacher and received a detention for it, it seems to me that he deserved the detention, if only for his attitude. The policy may be wrong, and I think it probably is wrong, but it IMHO, the boy was forgetting that he was under authority in the school. The Bible is clear that when we are under authority, we are under authority, even if that authority is godless. As long as they aren't demanding that we do anything antithetical to our faith, we're supposed to obey. There will still be plenty of examples of persecution if we maintain a Christ-like attitude. Discrimination and persecution doesn't need to be provoked.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sun_Tzu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Annie64

Normally I defend people who are discriminated against for being Christians, but in this case, I'm not so sure. It seems to me that if the student did this, knowing the policy, he did it to deliberately provoke a reaction. And when he tore up a copy of the policy in front of the teacher and received a detention for it, it seems to me that he deserved the detention, if only for his attitude. The policy may be wrong, and I think it probably is wrong, but it IMHO, the boy was forgetting that he was under authority in the school. The Bible is clear that when we are under authority, we are under authority, even if that authority is godless. As long as they aren't demanding that we do anything antithetical to our faith, we're supposed to obey. There will still be plenty of examples of persecution if we maintain a Christ-like attitude. Discrimination and persecution doesn't need to be provoked.

I totally agree with you. The teacher may have implemented that policy due to having bad previous experiences. Basically I think as a teacher in a public system, you have to draw the line somewhere with "freedom of speech", because although it is a sacred gift people tend to abuse it to the point of offending others. At that point it is more of an issue of manners and compassion towards others but nevertheless, it is still an issue.

IMO, I think the student is in the wrong. Although that most here agree that the content is good content, it still flies in the face of the instructions. TO me this looks like a challenge on authority by a child and quite frankly I find it appalling that the parents are siding with the child. Regardless of religious beliefs and how they may feel about the policies, this is teaching the child to rebel when they don't like the rules.

There are ways to challenge policies and this isn't the way. They should be teaching the child to be going through diplomatic channels and not igniting a fire then try to extinguish it by beating it.

quote:

“art work that has any violence, blood, sexual connotations or religious beliefs will not be accepted.”

quote:

ORIGINAL: WormHeart

Apart from the whining tone of the YouTube clip, I cannot see how anyone could not back the student in this case.

It seem pretty straightforward.

School policy cannot infringe on constitutional rights - the end.

There are a few fuzzy spots however.

The teacher policy:

quote:

“art work that has any violence, blood, sexual connotations or religious beliefs will not be accepted.”

So - a cross should obviosly be accepted (per the constitution). How about the other exceptions, if they are in a religious framework?

A bloodied Christ on the cross? This would violate two of the exceptions, three if the soldier was plunging a spear into his side.

Not picking a fight, just asking for your opinions. Should they all be fine, as long as they are expressed within a religious frame?

WormHeart

quote:

The blood thing seems silly, except that the school might see it inextricably tied to violence. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

I would guess that other school policies of zero tolerance for weapons probably come into play as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kernsfamily

quote:

The blood thing seems silly, except that the school might see it inextricably tied to violence. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

I would guess that other school policies of zero tolerance for weapons probably come into play as well.

Still, I find it bizarre that an ART teacher, of all people, would entirely rule out "violence" and "blood" content in ART....geez....

wouldn't that all depend on the CONTEXT of it's usage....perhaps it's a revolutionary, or civil war illustration (would be blood and/or "violence")..and the artwork be of "historical significance".......or, perhaps, the student would be experimenting with medical illustrations (blood)....(very lucrative field, I might add)....

then again...here in the Dallas area, there was an art teacher who was FIRED last school year. And why? for taking her students to the ART MUSEUM! (which she did regularly!)

(after getting "fired", she was inundated with job offers from many other school districts in the area).

some people just can't think ....ugh!

oh...and Iam an "artist".....a graphic designer/art director....spent the 2nd half of my college career in art school at cincinnati...

quote:

The Tomah Area School District has voluntarily agreed to remove religious restrictions with respect to student art work assignments at Tomah High School. The classroom policy was implemented about eleven years ago in response to concerns that the Tomah art teachers had about students including gang symbols, satanic references, and other negative expression in student art work. The policy banned violence, blood, sexual connotations as well as overt religious references in classroom artwork. Until a recent federal lawsuit filed by a Tomah High School student, the art teachers did not receive any complaints from students who appreciated the policy. With respect to the student who filed the federal lawsuit, the teachers attempted to accommodate the student with respect to his religious beliefs.

The art teachers will continue to prohibit gang symbols, violence, blood and sexual connotations from student art work. However, students will be permitted to express their religious beliefs in class assignments, so long as any such expression satisfies all relevant assignment criteria.