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RE: Religious Discrimination in WI: School Art Project Sparks Lawsuit

 
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RE: Religious Discrimination in WI: School Art Project ... - 5/5/2008 4:40:49 PM   
henny


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I think the constitution is on the student's side as well, so it's good that the school board changed the policy.

It's interesting that they are arguing for "symbolic speech" in reference to his tearing up the grading policy, based upon the 1990 case that legalized burning the flag:

quote:


In addition to failing to receive credit for his art project, A.P. also received a detention when he tore the grading policy in Millin’s presence during class. Cortman defended A.P.’s action as “symbolic speech,” which has been upheld by the Supreme Court in several cases, including the 1990 case that legalized burning the American flag.


I hope some of the people cheering over this would still be as adamant in defending the student if he had expressed some "symbolic speech" that they disagree with.

< Message edited by henny -- 5/5/2008 4:49:12 PM >


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RE: Religious Discrimination in WI: School Art Project ... - 5/5/2008 4:48:26 PM   
gengwall


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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: henny

I think the constitution is on the student's side as well, so it's good that the school board changed the policy.

It's interesting that they are arguing for "symbolic speech" in reference to his tearing up the grading policy, based upon the 1990 case that legalized burning the flag:

quote:


In addition to failing to receive credit for his art project, A.P. also received a detention when he tore the grading policy in Millin’s presence during class. Cortman defended A.P.’s action as “symbolic speech,” which has been upheld by the Supreme Court in several cases, including the 1990 case that legalized burning the American flag.


I hope some of the people cheering over this would still be as adamant in defending the student if he had expressed some "symbolic speech" that they disagree with.

It remains to be seen how that aspect of the case will pan out in the settlement.

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Post #: 27
RE: Religious Discrimination in WI: School Art Project ... - 5/5/2008 4:53:25 PM   
Jhud


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quote:

I hope some of the people cheering over this would still be as adamant in defending the student if he had expressed some "symbolic speech" that they disagree with.


I would absolutely have defended the right of a student to paint a burning flag.

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Jack

“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
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Post #: 28
RE: Religious Discrimination in WI: School Art Project ... - 5/5/2008 5:22:58 PM   
gengwall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

I hope some of the people cheering over this would still be as adamant in defending the student if he had expressed some "symbolic speech" that they disagree with.


I would absolutely have defended the right of a student to paint a burning flag.

Thank goodness the school didn't also prohibit representations of fire, or such a student would still be in trouble.

_____________________________

DOGBERRY on posters:
They have committed false report;
moreover, they have spoken untruths;
secondarily, they are slanders;
sixth and lastly, they have belied;
thirdly, they have verified unjust things;
and, to conclude, they are lying knaves
Post #: 29
RE: Religious Discrimination in WI: School Art Project ... - 5/5/2008 5:35:02 PM   
Jhud


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quote:

Thank goodness the school didn't also prohibit representations of fire, or such a student would still be in trouble.


Yeah, although they might argue it was 'violent' depending how the fire was depicted. In fact, that word might border on unconstitutionally vague

_____________________________

Jack

“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
Post #: 30
RE: Religious Discrimination in WI: School Art Project ... - 5/5/2008 6:26:16 PM   
henny


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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

quote:

I hope some of the people cheering over this would still be as adamant in defending the student if he had expressed some "symbolic speech" that they disagree with.


I would absolutely have defended the right of a student to paint a burning flag.



"Painting" isn't the sort of "symbolic speech" they are referring to in their argument defending the boy's ripping of the grading guidelines, though. But I've gone around with you on the whole flag burning thing several times before, so I think we both now were we stand on that issue.

I just thought it was interesting (and encouraging) that this Christian legal organization would argue that the first amendment protects other forms of more symbolic speech beyond just representation in the narrowest sense (i.e. only written or spoken words) -especially when this symbolic speech occurs within the context of protest (which the lawyer argued this was).

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Post #: 31
RE: Religious Discrimination in WI: School Art Project ... - 5/22/2008 4:45:54 PM   
gengwall


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From: MN
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Update - Settlement finalized.

Looks like the student got everything, including his record cleansed. Wow. The school must have been even further behind the eight ball than even I suspected.

quote:

The Parties have now conferred and reached a permanent settlement that will dispose of the entire case, and which includes the following terms:
a. Defendants have revised the challenged Policies by removing the prohibition against student religious expression in response to class assignments. Defendants have fully implemented the revised Policies and agree to permit student religious expression in response to class assignments when the response meets stated assignment guidelines.
b. Defendants have graded Plaintiff’s landscape drawing assignment containing the cross and John 3:16 scripture reference, which was previously assigned a “zero” grade.
c. Defendants have removed any and all references to, or indications of, Plaintiff’s two disciplinary detentions from Plaintiff’s school records.
d. Defendants agree to pay Plaintiff’s attorneys’ fees.
e. The Parties will bear their own costs incurred in this matter. (stipulated dismissal, page 2)


< Message edited by gengwall -- 5/22/2008 4:58:10 PM >


_____________________________

DOGBERRY on posters:
They have committed false report;
moreover, they have spoken untruths;
secondarily, they are slanders;
sixth and lastly, they have belied;
thirdly, they have verified unjust things;
and, to conclude, they are lying knaves
Post #: 32
RE: Religious Discrimination in WI: School Art Project ... - 5/22/2008 5:19:14 PM   
Jhud


Posts: 6773
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
quote:

I just thought it was interesting (and encouraging) that this Christian legal organization would argue that the first amendment protects other forms of more symbolic speech beyond just representation in the narrowest sense (i.e. only written or spoken words) -especially when this symbolic speech occurs within the context of protest (which the lawyer argued this was).


Well, I think if you are going to going to let a student express himself in a creative way to begin with - write, paint, make a video, etc. you can't limit the expression of ideas within that medium unless their is a compelling state interest in doing so, particularly when the specific expression (like religious belief) are constitutionally protected.

_____________________________

Jack

“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
Post #: 33
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