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[Poll]
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War in Iraq
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| We are in Iraq because of oil |
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| We are in Iraq to liberate the less fortunate |
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| We are in Iraq to protect Israel |
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| We are in Iraq to stop terrorists |
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| We are in Iraq for some other reason |
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Total Votes : 427
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(last vote on : 9/26/2008 12:04:25 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/15/2005 7:03:42 PM
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ComyndeComines
Posts: 1
Joined: 4/17/2005
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Dear Meeting,
I agree with you. The war is sinful. Christians should have nothing to do with it. The Catholic peace witness sustained me years ago when I was a Prostestant Pacifist. Daniel Berrigan and Dorothy Day are certainly saints of God. Phil Berrigan is with his just reward in heaven.
Being a pacifist is not being passive. You are right about that.
Pax Christi,
Comyn deComines
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/15/2005 8:04:49 PM
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Stephanos
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
Status: online
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War CAN NOT be sin. Reason? The OT tells us that God sent the people of Israel into war against the people whom were in the land of promice. Since God is never changing and is the same yesterday, today, and forever; please tell me how He can tell the world at one point to fight a war, and then tell us that it is sin to have war? Answer is that simply put war in as of it self is NOT sin. Modivations for war, yes. Actions during war, sure. But war itself is NOT sin, and that is biblicly proven.
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/15/2005 8:26:14 PM
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peaceb2u
Posts: 206
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Royal Oak, Michigan (Metro Detroit area)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
War CAN NOT be sin. Reason? The OT tells us that God sent the people of Israel into war against the people whom were in the land of promice. Since God is never changing and is the same yesterday, today, and forever; please tell me how He can tell the world at one point to fight a war, and then tell us that it is sin to have war? Answer is that simply put war in as of it self is NOT sin. Modivations for war, yes. Actions during war, sure. But war itself is NOT sin, and that is biblicly proven.
I agree Stephanos...Even in the New Testament we see where Jesus makes war...
Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
_____________________________
La 3:25 The LORD is good to those who wait for Him, To the soul who seeks Him.
Please visit my website at: http://www.excellentfreeware.zoomshare.com/
Keith
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/15/2005 10:47:55 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1052
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ComyndeComines
Daniel Berrigan and Dorothy Day are certainly saints of God. Phil Berrigan is with his just reward in heaven.
Being a pacifist is not being passive. You are right about that.
Pax Christi,
Comyn deComines
I have not heard of these people & will have to read up on them.
And no doubt - there are many alternatives to war. "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9). It's interesting that so many church leaders opposed, and still oppose the Iraq war...and so very sad that their words fell on deaf ears, especially those of our leaders.
Peace & God bless,
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/16/2005 10:59:49 AM
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welvet
Posts: 19
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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For those interested in excellent, accurate reporting from Iraq....
http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/
_____________________________
~It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black~
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/16/2005 10:07:26 PM
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JustaChristian
Posts: 49
Joined: 5/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I agree Stephanos...Even in the New Testament we see where Jesus makes war...
Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Unless you believe that this is the exact war and Jesus is personally leading it this scripture is taken out of context.
Now what God did specifically command us is to be peacemakers, to fogive, to show love and compassion formost.
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/17/2005 12:15:41 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 1051
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
There is ample evidence that Saddam was seeking an alliance with Al_Qedea, and on that alone Bush was justified in invading and removing Saddam from power.
Where is this evidence?
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/17/2005 12:30:55 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 1051
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Since God is never changing and is the same yesterday, today, and forever; please tell me how He can tell the world at one point to fight a war, and then tell us that it is sin to have war?
It's quite simple.
God specifically instructed the Children of Israel to wage war in the Old Testament.
Jesus clearly had a different set of instructions for His Church.
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/17/2005 8:21:34 AM
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haldir
Posts: 551
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gwingert
quote:
Since God is never changing and is the same yesterday, today, and forever; please tell me how He can tell the world at one point to fight a war, and then tell us that it is sin to have war?
It's quite simple.
God specifically instructed the Children of Israel to wage war in the Old Testament.
Jesus clearly had a different set of instructions for His Church.
We are not talking about the Church making war, but the government. Big difference.
_____________________________
Haldir
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/17/2005 8:23:03 AM
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haldir
Posts: 551
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JustaChristian
quote:
I agree Stephanos...Even in the New Testament we see where Jesus makes war...
Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Unless you believe that this is the exact war and Jesus is personally leading it this scripture is taken out of context.
Now what God did specifically command us is to be peacemakers, to fogive, to show love and compassion formost.
The scripture provided was not to show that Jesus had justified this war, but that Jesus Himself will go to war. Stop trying to bait and switch the subject.
_____________________________
Haldir
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/17/2005 12:30:10 PM
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soblessed53
Posts: 111
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: U.S.A. Still A Free Society!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tensparks
For those interested in excellent, accurate reporting from Iraq....
http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/
Thank you so much for posting the link.This is the most complete viewpoint I have yet heard or read on the situation in Iraq and how those there really think/feel. It has tempered my view of the Iraqi people immensely,because of the article's description of the only true"Martyrs" in Iraq,those men standing in line for jobs in the security forces. Excellent,excellent website.
_____________________________
If the Radical Muslims laid down their weapons there would be peace
If the Jews laid down their weapons they would cease to exist
Casual Christians may become Christian Casualties
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/17/2005 2:12:11 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1052
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: haldir
For those of you who still believe WMDs are not being found in Iraq.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
And, of course it is important to note that (from the same article):
"Boylan said the suspected lab was new, dating from some time after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Bush administration cited evidence that Saddam Hussein's government was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for the invasion. No such weapons or factories were found.
Military officials did not immediately identify either the precursors or the agent they could have produced. "We don't want to speculate on any possibilities until our analysis is complete," Col. Henry Franke, a nuclear, biological and chemical defense officer, was quoted as saying in a military statement.
Investigators still were trying to determine who had assembled the alleged lab and whether the expertise came from foreign insurgents or former members of Hussein's security apparatus, the military said..."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
Peace & God bless,
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/18/2005 2:53:49 PM
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soblessed53
Posts: 111
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: U.S.A. Still A Free Society!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: haldir
For those of you who still believe WMDs are not being found in Iraq.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
And, of course it is important to note that (from the same article):
"Boylan said the suspected lab was new, dating from some time after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Bush administration cited evidence that Saddam Hussein's government was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for the invasion. No such weapons or factories were found.
Military officials did not immediately identify either the precursors or the agent they could have produced. "We don't want to speculate on any possibilities until our analysis is complete," Col. Henry Franke, a nuclear, biological and chemical defense officer, was quoted as saying in a military statement.
Investigators still were trying to determine who had assembled the alleged lab and whether the expertise came from foreign insurgents or former members of Hussein's security apparatus, the military said..."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
Peace & God bless,
"new",very interesting!
_____________________________
If the Radical Muslims laid down their weapons there would be peace
If the Jews laid down their weapons they would cease to exist
Casual Christians may become Christian Casualties
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/18/2005 3:15:37 PM
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haldir
Posts: 551
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: haldir
For those of you who still believe WMDs are not being found in Iraq.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
And, of course it is important to note that (from the same article):
"Boylan said the suspected lab was new, dating from some time after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Bush administration cited evidence that Saddam Hussein's government was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for the invasion. No such weapons or factories were found.
Military officials did not immediately identify either the precursors or the agent they could have produced. "We don't want to speculate on any possibilities until our analysis is complete," Col. Henry Franke, a nuclear, biological and chemical defense officer, was quoted as saying in a military statement.
Investigators still were trying to determine who had assembled the alleged lab and whether the expertise came from foreign insurgents or former members of Hussein's security apparatus, the military said..."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
Peace & God bless,
You have to be kidding me. Even if the lab was recently setup where do you think they got the WMDs??? I'll tell you. From Iraq! The WMDs were already there.
_____________________________
Haldir
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/18/2005 8:23:06 PM
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jgarden
Posts: 62
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Iraqi Chemical Stash Uncovered
Post-Invasion Cache Could Have Been For Use in Weapons
_________________________________________________________________
If WMDs were the original reason for invading Iraq, why did it take years to produce the proof. If they were a credible reason for the invasion, then they should have been secured within hours of the war. With spy satellites, there are no excuses for starting a war without tangible proof.
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/18/2005 8:48:53 PM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1052
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: haldir
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: haldir
For those of you who still believe WMDs are not being found in Iraq.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
And, of course it is important to note that (from the same article):
"Boylan said the suspected lab was new, dating from some time after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Bush administration cited evidence that Saddam Hussein's government was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for the invasion. No such weapons or factories were found.
Military officials did not immediately identify either the precursors or the agent they could have produced. "We don't want to speculate on any possibilities until our analysis is complete," Col. Henry Franke, a nuclear, biological and chemical defense officer, was quoted as saying in a military statement.
Investigators still were trying to determine who had assembled the alleged lab and whether the expertise came from foreign insurgents or former members of Hussein's security apparatus, the military said..."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
Peace & God bless,
You have to be kidding me. Even if the lab was recently setup where do you think they got the WMDs??? I'll tell you. From Iraq! The WMDs were already there.
While you are a very fair moderator, and from what I have read, a gentleman in your manners, I bow to the Duelfer report on this matter; as I believe Duelfer and the ISG have more credentials than you. The report disclaims what you have stated & the search was called off in June of this year, even for movement of WMD across the Iraqi border. I can repost the links I have already posted, even from the ever revered <on this website>, Fox news. Please don't take it personally.
Peace & God bless,
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/18/2005 9:39:26 PM
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clayton994
Posts: 71
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Bendigo, Australia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: haldir
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: haldir
For those of you who still believe WMDs are not being found in Iraq.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
And, of course it is important to note that (from the same article):
"Boylan said the suspected lab was new, dating from some time after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Bush administration cited evidence that Saddam Hussein's government was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for the invasion. No such weapons or factories were found.
Military officials did not immediately identify either the precursors or the agent they could have produced. "We don't want to speculate on any possibilities until our analysis is complete," Col. Henry Franke, a nuclear, biological and chemical defense officer, was quoted as saying in a military statement.
Investigators still were trying to determine who had assembled the alleged lab and whether the expertise came from foreign insurgents or former members of Hussein's security apparatus, the military said..."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
Peace & God bless,
You have to be kidding me. Even if the lab was recently setup where do you think they got the WMDs??? I'll tell you. From Iraq! The WMDs were already there.
Haldir,
You posted a link to a news report which quite clearly states (as Lizahana has already observed):
"The Bush administration cited evidence that Saddam Hussein's government was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for the invasion. No such weapons or factories were found."
If you don't agree with that statement, why did you post the link??
Cheers,
Clayton.
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/18/2005 11:41:51 PM
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tenfour
Posts: 83
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: haldir
For those of you who still believe WMDs are not being found in Iraq.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
These are not WMDs. They were chemical weapons. Not contagious, not nuclear.
Furthermore, the article says:
"He said the lab was relatively new, dating from some time after the invasion of Iraq in 2003."
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/19/2005 12:07:04 AM
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peaceb2u
Posts: 206
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Royal Oak, Michigan (Metro Detroit area)
Status: offline
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Many WMD's have been found, just not the stockpiles that there were believed to have been (even the democrats like John Kerry and many others believed this). I still believe they had stockpiles, but Saddam knew we were coming, and had ample time to scatter and hide, and sell them.
_____________________________
La 3:25 The LORD is good to those who wait for Him, To the soul who seeks Him.
Please visit my website at: http://www.excellentfreeware.zoomshare.com/
Keith
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/19/2005 12:10:51 AM
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Stephanos
Posts: 1119
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
Status: online
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WMD = Weapon of Mass Destruction
Im sorry but if you burst a military grade chemical weapon in a city like New York. You will have a few MILLION dead. Saddam used such weapons to try and utterly destroy the Kurds. Hundreds of Thousands of men, women and children died to these weapons. I dont think those people would say "Chemical weapons are not WMD's"
As for these "new labs". Just where exactly did they get the matireals to start the lab? To answer that question is to answer and affirm the reason why we are in the war on terror.
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/19/2005 7:20:30 AM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1052
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peaceb2u
Many WMD's have been found, just not the stockpiles that there were believed to have been (even the democrats like John Kerry and many others believed this). I still believe they had stockpiles, but Saddam knew we were coming, and had ample time to scatter and hide, and sell them.
Then you must know something that C. Duelfer, CIA & the ISG do not know; as the search for WMD, even for movement of WMD across the Iraqi border, was called off in June of this year. Please tell us how you know this information, and where you get your information.
Peace & God bless,
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/19/2005 7:39:30 AM
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Lizahana
Posts: 1052
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
WMD = Weapon of Mass Destruction
Im sorry but if you burst a military grade chemical weapon in a city like New York. You will have a few MILLION dead. Saddam used such weapons to try and utterly destroy the Kurds. Hundreds of Thousands of men, women and children died to these weapons. I dont think those people would say "Chemical weapons are not WMD's"
And who supplied Hussein with such weapons back in the 1980's? That would be the US to help Iraq beat Iran in the Iran-Iraq war (along with other countries). And when Hussein used chemicals on his own people, and we knew of it, what did we do? We remained on friendly, diplmatic ties with him to serve, as the State dpt called it, "our interests." This was done IN SPITE of HEATED opposition in Congress.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A52241-2002Dec29¬Found=true
quote:
As for these "new labs". Just where exactly did they get the matireals to start the lab? To answer that question is to answer and affirm the reason why we are in the war on terror.
Well, it was military spokesman, Lt. Col. Steven A. Boylan who called them "new" - you'll have to take that up with him. The Duelfer report, ISG called off the search for WMD, even for movement across the Iraqi border, in June of this year. Now if you have a problem with these findings, take it up with them - write to them - I'm sure they have time to answer you now that they're not searching for WMD anymore.
Peace & God bless,
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/19/2005 8:27:08 AM
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peaceb2u
Posts: 206
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Royal Oak, Michigan (Metro Detroit area)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lizahana
quote:
ORIGINAL: peaceb2u
Many WMD's have been found, just not the stockpiles that there were believed to have been (even the democrats like John Kerry and many others believed this). I still believe they had stockpiles, but Saddam knew we were coming, and had ample time to scatter and hide, and sell them.
Then you must know something that C. Duelfer, CIA & the ISG do not know; as the search for WMD, even for movement of WMD across the Iraqi border, was called off in June of this year. Please tell us how you know this information, and where you get your information.
Peace & God bless,
Sunday, Jan. 11, 2004 1:31 p.m. EST
Multiple Tests Confirming Iraq WMD Send Media Into Deep Spin
Mulitple tests conducted in Iraq by Danish and British experts indicate that Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction have finally been discovered, but mainstream news editors either ignored the story Sunday morning or are furiously spinning the news as inconsequential.
More than 12 hours after the Fox News Channel, Reuters and the Associated Press carried reports that preliminary tests showed Iraqi mortar shells discovered near Basra contain a deadly liquid blister agent, the New York Times had yet to report the bombshell find on the main page of its Web site – or anywhere in its Sunday morning print edition.
Read More...
Maybe the search was called off, but It's still my belief that he had them, and they are probably in another country or in the hands of terrorists at this time.
_____________________________
La 3:25 The LORD is good to those who wait for Him, To the soul who seeks Him.
Please visit my website at: http://www.excellentfreeware.zoomshare.com/
Keith
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RE: War in Iraq - 8/19/2005 2:13:53 PM
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jgarden
Posts: 62
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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It is customary to declare war based on tangible evidence. Suspicions and rumors do not constitute proof. Instead of declaring war based on hard evidence, the Administration reversed the process with a war in search of a reason.
< Message edited by jgarden -- 8/19/2005 2:15:55 PM >
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