What is the oldest religion? (Full Version)

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jbow -> What is the oldest religion? (4/14/2008 9:04:52 AM)

Hmmm... could it be Christianity? didn't Christianity begin just hours after the Fall while Adam and Eve were still in the garden... when God prophesied that the seed of the woman would bruise the head of the serpent and he would bruise His heel? He continued to show His people the coming Messiah as Lord, King, Lamb. He showed through Noah that it was through obedience. He showed through Abraham that it was by faith. He showed through Issac that it was substitutionary.
Through His prophets He showed the time and place of the coming Messiah. He showed them bits and pieces. He showed the suffering Messiah, the Lamb of God. He also showed them the Lord of Lords and King of Kings... the Lion of the tribe of Judah who is soon to return.

Yes, Christianity is the worlds first religion and only true religion.

Julien

[edited by moderator--no violation, just a misspelling that was confusing[;)]]



cobblestone -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/14/2008 9:15:42 AM)

What is the "gall"? What do you mean?



JimboFletch -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/14/2008 3:21:53 PM)

quote:

didn't Christianity begin just hours after the Fall while Adam and Eve were still in the garden


It may have been even before then:

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
-John 17:24

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love
-Ephesians 1:4

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
-1 Peter 1:20



jbow -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/14/2008 3:34:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

didn't Christianity begin just hours after the Fall while Adam and Eve were still in the garden


It may have been even before then:

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
-John 17:24

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love
-Ephesians 1:4

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
-1 Peter 1:20


Good stuff!!!

[:)]

J



earthless -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/14/2008 3:35:44 PM)

jbow and jimbo - you're both winners in my book!



JimboFletch -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/14/2008 3:39:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

jbow and jimbo - you're both Wieners in my book!

I will relish the thought.
[:D]



frankman -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/14/2008 5:21:54 PM)

The first mention of Christianity in the Bible may have been Gen.3:15, which may have been foreordained before the foundation of the world as 1 Peter 1:20 says.

Now please allow me to get a little technical here. The opposite of Christianity is religion. Religion is man trying to do something to appaise God or be like God, whereas Christianity is accepting all what Christ has done for us by faith alone.

So the first religious verse in the Bible would be Satan`s words to Eve in Gen.3:5. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." [sm=error.gif] What a lie! And what`s more, men has been deceived by religion ever since.



oldmethuselah -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/14/2008 8:20:14 PM)

Let us suppose God's Salvation Plan began as the OP has suggested...

Moreover, let us suppose that God envisioned it before the foundation of the world as has been alluded to in other posts...

It MAY still be that the EARLIEST religion PRACTISED by humans was SELF WORSHIP - "self aggrandisement", call it what you will...

("you shall be as God, Eve")

we are a selfish unprincipled lot, as can be observed in even our youngest most "innocent" babies...

AND, since THIS religion ("ME" "ME" "ME") is so well received today...we could say that, not only was it the earliest, but the MOST POPULAR as well!

Yet the Lord loves us anyway! [:D]

as one of the Church Ancients put it...

"That Thou Shouldst love me as Thou do, and be the God Thou Art...

Is Mystery to my Intellect, but Music to my Heart!"



fallenstar -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/19/2008 2:47:35 AM)

Honestly, Christianity is not the oldest religon. Christianity only existed after the death of Christ. Before Jesus spread the word of God, people were Jewish, Pagan, Muslim, Hindu, and other stuff I don't know about. Christianity is thousands of years old, but there is waaaaaaay older stuff out there.



ta_mosquito -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/19/2008 10:16:08 AM)

quote:

Before Jesus spread the word of God, people were Jewish, Pagan, Muslim, Hindu, and other stuff I don't know about.

Muslim (Islam) is newer than Christianity, BTW. [;)] It came about in something like 600 AD.



jbow -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/20/2008 1:23:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fallenstar

Honestly, Christianity is not the oldest religon. Christianity only existed after the death of Christ. Before Jesus spread the word of God, people were Jewish, Pagan, Muslim, Hindu, and other stuff I don't know about. Christianity is thousands of years old, but there is waaaaaaay older stuff out there.

Not true... Christianity is Judaism fulfilled. The fulfillment of the prophesy given to Adam and Eve, the same religion shown to Abraham and Issac. The same religion shown in the passover... Jesus is the Lamb of God. Christianity is the only true religion and has been since the beginning. As Christians, we are in the family of faith, the children of Abraham.

Only the name is different.

J



DaveW -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/21/2008 9:19:54 AM)

As Asher Intrater once said: (not an exact quote)

The only religion that God ever made was ancient Judiasm. The only way He ever made to relate to Him was thru the death of Messiah.



LCannon -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/21/2008 2:02:01 PM)

As frankman mentioned the first Faith evidence is Genesis 3:5. The oldest organized 'religion' of record, perhaps, is Genesis 11, the tower of Babel, (4)"Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.” however even before that God purged mankind's same arrogance in Noah's flood and perhaps earlier then that. Hebrews 1:1 states, "In many and various ways God spoke of old..." so the arrogance and obedience to His message is consistent.



missleyna -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/23/2008 10:18:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fallenstar

Honestly, Christianity is not the oldest religon. Christianity only existed after the death of Christ. Before Jesus spread the word of God, people were Jewish, Pagan, Muslim, Hindu, and other stuff I don't know about. Christianity is thousands of years old, but there is waaaaaaay older stuff out there.


Actually, Muslims came about after Jesus- because they knew of Jesus and saw him as a prophet like Moses...just thought I'd let you know (we are doing a unit on the world religions in my Religion class this semester)



NomadMan -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/23/2008 10:40:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: frankman

The first mention of Christianity in the Bible may have been Gen.3:15, which may have been foreordained before the foundation of the world as 1 Peter 1:20 says.

Now please allow me to get a little technical here. The opposite of Christianity is religion. Religion is man trying to do something to appaise God or be like God, whereas Christianity is accepting all what Christ has done for us by faith alone.

So the first religious verse in the Bible would be Satan`s words to Eve in Gen.3:5. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." [sm=error.gif] What a lie! And what`s more, men has been deceived by religion ever since.

quote:

So the first religious verse in the Bible would be Satan`s words to Eve in Gen.3:5. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." What a lie! And what`s more, men has been deceived by religion ever since.


Greetings frankman;

Okay, my turn to be a "little technical" ;-)

That really wasn't a lie because even God confirmed this in Genesis 3:22 - And YHWH God said, Behold the man is now like one of us, knowing good and evil. However, I should point out that there might have been a lie in there. In the verse I quote above I translated the Hebrew "ke'ahhad mimeynu" as "like one of us" which is how most translations translate this, but this can also be translated as "like one of him" which means that while in 3:5 the serpent (nowhere is the serpent identified as "Satan") says that if they eat of the fruit they will be like God knowing Good and Evil but God may have said that they are like the serpent knowing Good and Evil. With this interpretation the lie was that the serpent said they would be like God but God said they were like the serpent.



Ezra -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/23/2008 11:21:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: frankman
So the first religious verse in the Bible would be Satan`s words to Eve in Gen.3:5. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." [sm=error.gif] What a lie! And what`s more, men has been deceived by religion ever since.


frankman:

You have brought about the truth about the "oldest religion" which is self-worship. It started with Lucifer in Heaven.

However, if we want to talk about the oldest Plan of Salvation, then I agree. It began "before the foundation of the world".

Christians must be careful to avoid calling Christianity a "religion", since everything else other than Christianity is a religion. Christianity is a Divine Revelation, and Christianity is Christ Jesus (Yeshua) -- which means God is our salvation.



DaveW -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/24/2008 6:37:25 AM)

quote:

So the first religious verse in the Bible would be Satan`s words to Eve in Gen.3:5. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." What a lie! And what`s more, men has been deceived by religion ever since.

quote:

Christians must be careful to avoid calling Christianity a "religion", since everything else other than Christianity is a religion. Christianity is a Divine Revelation, and Christianity is Christ Jesus (Yeshua) -- which means God is our salvation.
You all take a scriptural word and put your own definition on it.

Jam 1:26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless.
Jam 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

There are only 4 other references to "Religion" in the bible texts: 3 in Acts (17.22, 25.19, 26.5) and one in Colossians: 2.23. The Acts references are all generic and in Colossians Paul adds "self-made" (nasb) to indicate a negative term.

The verses in James seem to make religion to be a good thing, and they define exactly what it is: "...to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world. "



frankman -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/24/2008 6:10:18 PM)

I guess the first real lie here would be in Gen.3:4. "You will not surely die` the serpent said to the woman" when God had said in Gen.2:17 "for when you eat of it you will surely die." Just like today, some people think they can escape eternal hell by appaising God by working their way to heaven by observing religious rules or rituals. Or they think they`ll get away with it by twisting God`s Word to mean whatever they would like it to mean. [:(] What a lie of Satan!

Religion, though it may be good within itself, is us working to please God. Christianity is Christ and accepting Christ`s work for us on the cross as sufficient for our salvation.



new-vase -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/24/2008 7:56:02 PM)

Dear friends, good night! I think are in the time in that the love is cooling. The religions fight some with the other ones. a lot they don't know that only Lord Jesus Christ rescue!

[;)] I´m from Brazil



DaveW -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/25/2008 8:10:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: frankman

Religion, though it may be good within itself, is us working to please God.
That is NOT the biblical definition. Re-read James 1.27.



new-vase -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/26/2008 6:11:11 PM)

Dear DaveW
Good morning!

I agree with you. A pure and true religion exists, and it is this:
"...to take care of children who have in the fathers and of widows who plows in trouble, and to keep oneself untouched by the world."

But, as the Bible says will exist a time in that the love of many will cool down:

" And because wrongdoing will be increased, the love of most people will become cold.But he who goes through to the end will get salvation." Matthew 24:12

Excuse my wrong way to put the words!

God blesses you![:D]



Bee777 -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/30/2008 4:21:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NomadMan

[ but this can also be translated as "like one of him" which means that while in 3:5 the serpent (nowhere is the serpent identified as "Satan")


Correction Nomad
Here are two references that the serpent is satan

Revelations 20;2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

AND

Revelations 12;9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

But on the topic, Lucifer was never identified as Satan ?



NomadMan -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/30/2008 7:37:02 AM)

quote:

Correction Nomad
Here are two references that the serpent is satan

Revelations 20;2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

AND

Revelations 12;9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


That is "one" interpretation. Is the serpent mentioned in Revelations the serpent in the graden or the serpent Leviathon (Isaiah 27:1)? Maybe Leviathon is the same serpent in the garden? My point is that nowhere is the serpent in the garden specifically identified as Satan. This is an interpretation, which may or may not be correct.

quote:

But on the topic, Lucifer was never identified as Satan ?


Good point, but Lucifer is nowhere found in the Bible. Lucifer is the Latin translation of the Hebrew heyleyl meaning bright. Heyleyl comes from the same root as the word halel meaning praise.



Bee777 -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (4/30/2008 10:35:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NomadMan

[
That is "one" interpretation. Is the serpent mentioned in Revelations the serpent in the graden or the serpent Leviathon (Isaiah 27:1)? Maybe Leviathon is the same serpent in the garden? My point is that nowhere is the serpent in the garden specifically identified as Satan. This is an interpretation, which may or may not be correct.



leviathan...........
Ok there is so much to look at but read Job 41 all of it as that is the description of this serpent. Many think this is a submarine especially when you look
Psalms 104;26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein

As it goes with the ships and the play there IN.
And look at the prophetic book of Isaiah when God is speaking about a battle.
Isaiah27:1
In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea. But Job really gives the best description.


quote:

Good point, but Lucifer is nowhere found in the Bible. Lucifer is the Latin translation of the Hebrew heyleyl meaning bright. Heyleyl comes from the same root as the word halel meaning praise.


Lucifer is mentioned once in the Bible
Isa 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning * ! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

The KJV Strong's Version

Blessings



fallenstar -> RE: What is the oldest religion? (5/1/2008 7:50:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbow

quote:

ORIGINAL: fallenstar

Honestly, Christianity is not the oldest religon. Christianity only existed after the death of Christ. Before Jesus spread the word of God, people were Jewish, Pagan, Muslim, Hindu, and other stuff I don't know about. Christianity is thousands of years old, but there is waaaaaaay older stuff out there.

Not true... Christianity is Judaism fulfilled. The fulfillment of the prophesy given to Adam and Eve, the same religion shown to Abraham and Issac. The same religion shown in the passover... Jesus is the Lamb of God. Christianity is the only true religion and has been since the beginning. As Christians, we are in the family of faith, the children of Abraham.

Only the name is different.

J



Yes, but Christianity is not the same as Judaism. We believe in Christ, and that he is the son of God, but Jews believe Christ has not yet come. We "used" to be Jews, but the Christianity came about and thats what we became.



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