RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adult son for refusing to goto church?
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[Poll]
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Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adult son for refusing to goto church?
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| I don't know. |
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Total Votes : 79
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(last vote on : 5/5/2008 12:34:43 PM)
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 11:28:24 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
There is nothing any of us can say on here that will make a difference to the situation, anyway.
I agree, yet we still post...lol :P
John
In fact, the ONLY person Zedd can control is... himself. His choices still remain to be to few, but only HE can choose his reaction and attitude. That reaction and attitude says far more about his character than any failings of his mother.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 12:33:52 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1214
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
there might be a wrong way of going about it, but i don't for the life of me see why she doesn't have the right to change the rules. rules, contracts, all kinds of agreements can be changed over time. it is not immoral to do so.
Most of the time when rules change there is a grandfather clause, and when contracts between two parties are changed it's done through good faith negations, not by one side with a my way or the highway clause.
John
oh please, this is an adult that is getting free rent and admits to disharmony. this is an adult that has been given financial support, doesn't want to be a christian yet points the finger and says, "hey you're not being a good christian."
we christians need to stop being so sensitive when someone says that and realize that sometimes they are doing that to divert attention away from their own faults. and we don't need to worry so much about the christian reputation but care for our own reputations.
i understand what it is like to be at the wrong end of a christian parent and emotional, unreasonble demands from that parent to young adult.
i also know that parent wasn't making mistakes on purpose. that parent was trying to live up to what was thought to be the way to be in charge inchristian authority as a parent. still it was a disaster. time to move on and let BOTH parties mend.
i have also seen young adult men flexing the muscles and energy of intellect and debate with parents for the sport of the head to head match and for the enjoyment of winning. to a young person this is natural and fun. contest. standing on a hill with the chest puffed out. but the parent is not young, and trying desperately to do right and to stay alive. the contest is not so fun for them. not satisfying but wearing. i have seen parents end up in hospitals over these contests.
a real man, a gentleman, will not go head to head with a woman in contest (especially his own mother) for the enjoyment of being right, without care for respect and to her detriment. A real man will maintain respect and honor towards that woman and keep the peace or move out even if he is right she is wrong. a real man will not stay for the free meal and rent and contunue disharmony for his own gain and to the detriment of others. a real gentlman is not the one that harms others while winning an argument, a real man knows when he needs to put food on his own table.
there is also such a thing as eviction and firing someone. that is a kind of agreement break that is appropriate.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 1:19:11 PM
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Restored_Heart
Posts: 953
Joined: 7/23/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
quote:
ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart
I had sent this via PM and hoped to get a response.... But I will post most of this here....
I missed your post last night Amy. I hope you get a response.
Being as he said to PM him if we wanted to know his beliefs, I hope he responds.... otherwise he is beginning to sound/feel like a troll.
_____________________________
"Ya mom, I got to see "Some Italian guy" in concert..."
Some Italian guy? (Carman) :p
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 1:22:01 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
On what grounds should she evict him?
John
Because it's her house. NOBODY lives off my sweat unless I invite them and they continue to stay on my good side. Nobody. And if they become unpleasant to me, I can tell them to leave.
That's fine and dandy, yet in the course of doing thing your way if there is a conflict with the word of God your authoirty doesn't usurp what is right and wrong according to God's word...
quote:
And, without a lease, the boy doesn't have a legal or, in my view, a moral leg to stand on.
Are you contending that a verbal agreement doesn't bound a Christian to their word?
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 1:31:09 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
John, with all due respect, your judgment on this is just that, your judgment. Just because your righteous indignation has been engaged does not make it the judgement of the Holy Spirit.
I can support my point with scripture...
I haven't resorted to talk of violence, or made claims that I cannot support with God's word... Or simply wrote of points of view with comments like, It's my house, if you don't like it take a hike...
And, sorry but this thread doesn't and cannot touch what is takes for my righteous indignation to kick in... Not even close...
quote:
To coin a phrase, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord."
I like this one more... I am the Lord, I change not, therefore the sons of Jacob are not consumed.
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 1:38:25 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1214
Status: offline
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this woman is not guilty of a grievous sin against God (that we have heard anything about)
seriously, would it be better for the woman to just deal and end up in an ambulance because the situation that she thought would be okay turned out to be more difficult than she thought....but she can't ask the boy to leave because she said he could come in the first place?
that's really very silly.
all she needs to do is tell the boy this isn't working out, find a place in 30 days. if she puts that in writing, the cops would be willing to haul him away after 30 days.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 1:39:07 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: meerkat
While I don't think that it is honest to reneg on an agreement your mom sounds like she wants to do the best that she can do for you from her perspective.
Someone really needs to explain to Zedd's mother that living a Christian life is the best thing she can do for her son...
John
John, no offense, but that sounds like advice from the classic Enabler.
Words fail me...
If forcing him to go to church by breaking her word is the biblical route by all means support it and if you can I will gladly accept it...
Actually what the mother should do to some degree as little or nothing to do with her son... She should do what is right because that what she should do, well strive to do what is right...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 1:47:50 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
oh please, this is an adult that is getting free rent and admits to disharmony. this is an adult that has been given financial support, doesn't want to be a christian yet points the finger and says, "hey you're not being a good christian."
Regardless there is right and wrong and while it looks to not fair if you are going to claim Christ there are going to be times when you pay for it... So while you post about about what a man should do(and I agree with what you posted...) consider what a Christain should do...
quote:
we christians need to stop being so sensitive when someone says that and realize that sometimes they are doing that to divert attention away from their own faults. and we don't need to worry so much about the christian reputation but care for our own reputations.
Actually it's God's reputation that is most important... My point about the mother's actions are in regard to what is right and wrong, not the emotional status of her son... Zedd's actions are not cause for her to do wrong...
quote:
a real man, a gentleman, will not go head to head with a woman in contest (especially his own mother) for the enjoyment of being right, without care for respect and to her detriment. A real man will maintain respect and honor towards that woman and keep the peace or move out even if he is right she is wrong. a real man will not stay for the free meal and rent and contunue disharmony for his own gain and to the detriment of others. a real gentlman is not the one that harms others while winning an argument, a real man knows when he needs to put food on his own table.
Very well spoken...
quote:
there is also such a thing as eviction and firing someone. that is a kind of agreement break that is appropriate.
Yes there is, but in regards to the OP the above doesn't apply...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 1:55:48 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1214
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we do not need to defend God's reputation.
this woman likely thinks that her live-here conditions are GOD HONORING. we don't know enough to know if she's wise or really ridiculous (to overstate it). but not being smart enough to avoid being ridiculous is not sin.
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there's life in a pit.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 1:59:47 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1214
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
there is also such a thing as eviction and firing someone. that is a kind of agreement break that is appropriate.
Yes there is, but in regards to the OP the above doesn't apply...
John
parents evict grown children all the time. they don't have to find something sinfull or crime ridden to do it, they can because they are not obligated to house their grown children.
yanking up a welcome mat is not automatically a sin. neither is changing your mind and changing the terms.
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there's life in a pit.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 2:03:40 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
On what grounds should she evict him?
John
Because it's her house. NOBODY lives off my sweat unless I invite them and they continue to stay on my good side. Nobody. And if they become unpleasant to me, I can tell them to leave.
That's fine and dandy, yet in the course of doing thing your way if there is a conflict with the word of God your authoirty doesn't usurp what is right and wrong according to God's word...
quote:
And, without a lease, the boy doesn't have a legal or, in my view, a moral leg to stand on.
Are you contending that a verbal agreement doesn't bound a Christian to their word?
John
Ima saying, things change. A man adjusts, a boy whines about the unfairness of life.
My authority at my home is granted me as God's steward and as head of my home. You govern your household by what you perceive as God's desire for you, His steward. If you come to the conclusion that celebrating Christmas and having gifts and a tree is wrong, you have the right to suspend such activities even if long in the past you gave tacit or intentional approval.
Kid yourself but don't try to kid me.
YOU have done such things yourself. So if you judge that mother and me, you condemn yourself.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 2:08:47 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
If forcing him to go to church by breaking her word is the biblical route by all means support it and if you can I will gladly accept it...
Actually what the mother should do to some degree as little or nothing to do with her son... She should do what is right because that what she should do, well strive to do what is right...
John
For the sake of argument, let's say the mother is a shameless sinner of the worst kind, that she's guilty of lying and causing grievious harm to this poor child's pysche and she has no right to change her mind about anything in the world.
The man-child STILL is in the wrong for the angst and grief he is giving his mother. Whether or not he is a Christian does not determine if he is guilty of sin.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 2:17:44 PM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 3612
Joined: 4/9/2005
From: The EMPIRE state!
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I still don't get why he HAS to be there. She doesn't owe a grown adult (is he a child or an adult?) her home and well-being unless there is something wrong with him that he truly can't live on his own. There are so many possibilities as to what may be going on here that who would no where to begin guessing.
I am another on here that believes that there is a lot more to this story than we know.
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Please do not PM me about this message, discuss it at the water cooler, or include it in your church bulletins. If you have questions, please keep them to yourself. ~Kerrlaw
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292 more miles t
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 2:24:14 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I like this one more... I am the Lord, I change not, therefore the sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Just so we are clear on this one, do you consider yourself so omniscient and holy that you have no need to change your mind ever; that you are always on the same wavelength as God?
If so, then words fail me...
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 2:37:24 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
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quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
He can move to Alabama.
Cruel and inhuman punishment.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 3:11:35 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
we do not need to defend God's reputation.
As His people and His representatives on earth yes we do... If this is truly in question we have a huge problem here... The bible is rather clear regarding the fact we are to represent that which we claim, to be followers of Christ and we do so by obeying His word… And before it’s said, yes we fail but that doesn’t grant us relief for doing what we know is right.
In fact I am going to start on a thread on this very subject later this afternoon and I invite you to make your case that we have no need to defend God's reputation.
quote:
this woman likely thinks that her live-here conditions are GOD HONORING.
That's not an valid excuse...
quote:
we don't know enough to know if she's wise or really ridiculous (to overstate it). but not being smart enough to avoid being ridiculous is not sin.
I'll keep my post and replies to the OP... It's like we have more than one thread here...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 3:18:39 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1214
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an excuse is a pretend reason to justify something. not the same thing as a mistake.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 3:23:44 PM
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hotsaucygma
Posts: 3106
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Actually, if it were me in this situation, if I gave my word that I would not force him to go to church as a condition to stay with me, I would not change it during the school year (the reason he was living with me in the first place being to attend school). However as the year ended, I would not feel wrong in telling him that I had made that "promise" without realizing that I would not be able to deal with it. I thought I could, but sorry, I find that I can't. If he wishes to continue to live with me as he goes to school he will need to attend church with us, he will also need to refrain from arguing about it or being disrespectful about it ,or to me. Period.
I would love to never have to admit that I made a decision that I could not follow through on, but I know I have and will. I am a Christian, that does not mean I am perfect- that I am forgiven yes, perfect, no. I would ask for my DS's forgiveness as well.
Bottom line - the question was "Is it acceptable?" I would say yes. Ideal, again- no, acceptable, yes.
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Dear Lord, let my words today be as sweet and delicious as cheesecake... for tomorrow I may have to eat them!
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 3:26:19 PM
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relady
Posts: 1212
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From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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Our host seems to have withdrawn from the conversation.
quote:
parents evict grown children all the time. they don't have to find something sinfull or crime ridden to do it, they can because they are not obligated to house their grown children. .....yanking up a welcome mat is not automatically a sin. neither is changing your mind and changing the terms. Wow, so basically you're saying that for purposes of him making his own decision in this matter it's ok if she treats him like a child but for her purposes of evicting him she can treat him like an adult. Boy, don't I wish life worked like that for me. However you look at it, Zedd is getting the shaft. And I'm sure that is just doing WONDERS for his opinion of what Christianity is supposed to be.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 3:27:07 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Are you contending that a verbal agreement doesn't bound a Christian to their word?
Ima saying, things change. A man adjusts, a boy whines about the unfairness of life.
Is that a yes or no? I asked a pretty straight forward question...
quote:
My authority at my home is granted me as God's steward and as head of my home.
Whatever is granted to you doesn't remove God's authority... If you act out of step with the word of God you're wrong... In fact by claiming to be God's steward you are held even more acountable..
quote:
If you come to the conclusion that celebrating Christmas and having gifts and a tree is wrong, you have the right to suspend such activities even if long in the past you gave tacit or intentional approval.
quote:
YOU have done such things yourself. So if you judge that mother and me, you condemn yourself.
Flawed in so many ways... First... This isn't a tribunal... It's a forum for the exchange of ideas and there is no judgement talking place. Second, if concondemnation takes place with every judgement of something we did wrong in the past I hope you've never called any of your children on a lie, or whatever... I believe the bible says make a righteous judgement... You seem to believe we can only judge regarding something they have never done... Please show that in the scriptures...
John
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