RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out adult son for refusing to goto church?
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Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adult son for refusing to goto church?
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Total Votes : 79
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(last vote on : 5/5/2008 12:34:43 PM)
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 3:29:06 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
Our host seems to have withdrawn from the conversation.
quote:
parents evict grown children all the time. they don't have to find something sinfull or crime ridden to do it, they can because they are not obligated to house their grown children. .....yanking up a welcome mat is not automatically a sin. neither is changing your mind and changing the terms. Wow, so basically you're saying that for purposes of him making his own decision in this matter it's ok if she treats him like a child but for her purposes of evicting him she can treat him like an adult. Boy, don't I wish life worked like that for me. However you look at it, Zedd is getting the shaft. And I'm sure that is just doing WONDERS for his opinion of what Christianity is supposed to be.
having rules of conduct for your boarders is not treating boarder like a child. boarding houses did this with adult boarders all the time.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 3:33:28 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Are you contending that a verbal agreement doesn't bound a Christian to their word?
Ima saying, things change. A man adjusts, a boy whines about the unfairness of life.
Is that a yes or no? I asked a pretty straight forward question...
Guess what, this ain't a trial. I'm not bound to answer questions yes or no. As a steward and a parent, my decisions still are between me an my God. If He reveals that I've made a mistake in judgment in the past, I am bound to change to please him - not to please a whiny man-child and not for you.
Life is seldom black or white. Unless you are as omniscient and holy as God that you have no need to change your mind ever; that you are always on the same wavelength as God.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 3:34:23 PM
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relady
Posts: 1212
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From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
having rules of conduct for your boarders is not treating boarder like a child. boarding houses did this with adult boarders all the time. She's not running a boarding house, this is her son whom she apparently thinks she can treat both as a child and an adult when it benefits her to do so.
Basically by doing so she is showing her son clearly that Christians do not have to be bound by their word. A very sad state of affairs.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 3:38:38 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1214
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she is running a boarding house. her son left, was out on his own and wanted to come back.
she is not obligated to offer shelter. she has the right to have conduct rules. she can change them at some point too. the bible says not to be wishy washy, it does not say you should never change the rules.
< Message edited by mrsdash -- 4/21/2008 3:53:43 PM >
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 4:09:02 PM
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Ellie-Mae
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quote:
Actually, if it were me in this situation, if I gave my word that I would not force him to go to church as a condition to stay with me, I would not change it during the school year (the reason he was living with me in the first place being to attend school). However as the year ended, I would not feel wrong in telling him that I had made that "promise" without realizing that I would not be able to deal with it. I thought I could, but sorry, I find that I can't. If he wishes to continue to live with me as he goes to school he will need to attend church with us, he will also need to refrain from arguing about it or being disrespectful about it ,or to me. Period.
I have wondered about this scenerio myself. My husband and I have been discussing the summer and setting up next semester's class schedules as this semester is winding down.
It seems reasonable to me that Zedd's mother might be doing the same sort of things as Zedd's semester is winding down. She is looking back and realizing that if this is to work for next year that some changes have to be made. This would be the obvious time to renigotiate agreements and standards for living in her home for future semesters and years.
I think that she may also be seeing why it was that his father has also kicked him out and doesn't want to come back. She may also be finding that his attitude toward her(as exampled in his posts) has gotten worse and worse. She is probably grasping at straws to try to get them both on the same page. It may be a misguided attempt, but we all have made mistakes, especially when we feel like we are at wits end.
It may seem like many of the posters are primarily taking her side, by reminding Zedd what his options are, but that is mostly because it does no good to to say what she should do when she is not the one here. If she were here we would be giving HER advice and dealing things more from her point of view. It is kind of futile to tell Zedd what his mother should do since he can't MAKE her do anything anymore than she could MAKE Zedd do anything.
< Message edited by Ellie-Mae -- 4/21/2008 4:16:26 PM >
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 5:58:39 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7421
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quote:
ORIGINAL: map4
I am not defending this mother for changing her mind, because I don't know the whole story.
But, I will say, I have changed my mind on things concerning my children.
Sometimes I have made rash decisions then I get "a check" on the inside. I believe the Holy Spirit is showing me I was wrong. When you know you have made the wrong decision, do you go ahead because you said "Yes" or "No", or do you admit you were wrong and do the right thing?
What I said may not apply to this particular situation, but to say we can never change our minds, I think, is wrong. Isn't it just as much our Christian "duty" to admit we were wrong in making a decision and to correct it?
Those are the thoughts that I'm having too.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 6:06:57 PM
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2shaye
Posts: 5347
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
It seems reasonable to me that Zedd's mother might be doing the same sort of things as Zedd's semester is winding down. She is looking back and realizing that if this is to work for next year that some changes have to be made. This would be the obvious time to renigotiate agreements and standards for living in her home for future semesters and years.
This reminded me of our situation with my son, now 22, still living at home. He knew from a very early age that if was not in school (after high school), then he would be expected to pay rent. At 20, he dropped out of school and at that time, we told him he had six weeks and we would begin charging him rent. We told him what the rent would be, the rules, etc. We even had it in writing and we all signed it. Anyway, the following year, we told him that in a month we were going to sit down and come up with a new agreement, including a large raise in rent (that's a long story for another thread). The time came, we gave him one month to comply or he could move out. He threw a NASTY fit! After he came to his senses, he realized that he still had a pretty sweet deal for a 21 year old! What he doesn't know is that $200.00 of his rent, every month, has gone into a savings account for him that we will give him when he gets married next year.
Renegotiation is appropriate, IMO.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 6:25:34 PM
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Corne
Posts: 1208
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Zedd, what is the life you've made there, that they are threatening to take away?
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 6:51:30 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
If forcing him to go to church by breaking her word is the biblical route by all means support it and if you can I will gladly accept it...
Actually what the mother should do to some degree as little or nothing to do with her son... She should do what is right because that what she should do, well strive to do what is right...
John
For the sake of argument, let's say the mother is a shameless sinner of the worst kind, that she's guilty of lying and causing grievious harm to this poor child's pysche and she has no right to change her mind about anything in the world.
The man-child STILL is in the wrong for the angst and grief he is giving his mother. Whether or not he is a Christian does not determine if he is guilty of sin.
I mentioned more than once the "man child"'s faults, responsibilities and what he should do... You're kinda late with this...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 7:03:49 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 9587
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quote:
Flawed in so many ways... First... This isn't a tribunal... It's a forum for the exchange of ideas and there is no judgement talking place. Second, if concondemnation takes place with every judgment of something we did wrong in the past I hope you've never called any of your children on a lie, or whatever... I believe the bible says make a righteous judgement... You seem to believe we can only judge regarding something they have never done... Please show that in the scriptures
I beg your pardon sir. You have continuously stated that the OP's mother is wrong. You have been real quick to judge her. The majority of this thread is nothing but judgmental. And even you can't truthfully deny that. For you to even make that statement goes beyond ludicrous.
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STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 7:07:17 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
I like this one more... I am the Lord, I change not, therefore the sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Just so we are clear on this one, do you consider yourself so omniscient and holy that you have no need to change your mind ever; that you are always on the same wavelength as God?
If so, then words fail me...
Are you really asking me this, or is this just a game? Is this post done in faith or in some attempt to humiliate me? Consider your answer...
Btw.... I made it clear that there could be reason for him to leave, to force him to leave... I gave an example myself... I have never said there is NO reason, I have spoken to the reason given in the OP and if you had read my posts you would know that which would negate the need for your question that doesn't deserve an answer...
Only someone who doesn't care to really read the posts can take my stance on this specific item and claim I there is never a need for change...
You are only not clear on this because you didn't take the time to read what is posted...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 7:14:16 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Guess what, this ain't a trial. I'm not bound to answer questions yes or no.
Certainly your prerogative…
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 7:19:00 PM
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Zedd
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Sorry I've been busy studying for finals, etc. I'll try to respond to as much as I can including PM's.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 7:19:37 PM
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Restored_Heart
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Thanks Zedd!
Good to see you back, hope finals are going well.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 7:20:28 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
she is running a boarding house. her son left, was out on his own and wanted to come back.
According to whom?
quote:
she is not obligated to offer shelter. she has the right to have conduct rules. she can change them at some point too. the bible says not to be wishy washy, it does not say you should never change the rules.
She's not simply changing the rules but an agreed upon condition... The correct time to change this rule is when the son leaves...
Why do people keep trying to rewrite the OP?
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian fam. to kick out adu... - 4/21/2008 7:38:54 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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quote:
ORIGINAL: qtman
quote:
Flawed in so many ways... First... This isn't a tribunal... It's a forum for the exchange of ideas and there is no judgement talking place. Second, if concondemnation takes place with every judgment of something we did wrong in the past I hope you've never called any of your children on a lie, or whatever... I believe the bible says make a righteous judgement... You seem to believe we can only judge regarding something they have never done... Please show that in the scriptures
quote:
I beg your pardon sir. You have continuously stated that the OP's mother is wrong. You have been real quick to judge her.
Real quick? No... You're wrong... It's painfully obvious... btw.. I made a point to "judge" the son as well... And if we were to take a tour of this forum you see judgements are made in many, if not most of the posts...
Just reading a few topics and you have judgement calls all over the place... The Morality & Ethics collection of threads are almost 100% about making a judgments...
quote:
The majority of this thread is nothing but judgmental.
Yes it is... Because a question was raised and generally a judgment of some sort is formulated regardintg the question... How can you avoid that??? I am sure I wouldn't have to leave this thread to find that you made a judgment...
quote:
And even you can't truthfully deny that. For you to even make that statement goes beyond ludicrous.
What is ludicrous is for anyone to believe this forum stands as some form of judgment...I don't deny making a judgment I just understand the weight of it... And that it's part of the exchanging of ideas here... The majority of posts on this forum judge one thing or another... People ask for judgement... Is this right, what should I do, is this against God...
Understand when I say there isn't a judgement(as I have already explained) I am speaking of one that carries weight... Can you understand that my judgement on this matter, or your judgement(oh yes you made one as well) are not binding and carry no weight therefore they amount to NOTHING beyond this exchange...
If we can't judge what is posted in regards to the OP's you can bet there would little or no posts...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 7:47:27 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
It may seem like many of the posters are primarily taking her side, by reminding Zedd what his options are, but that is mostly because it does no good to to say what she should do when she is not the one here. If she were here we would be giving HER advice and dealing things more from her point of view. It is kind of futile to tell Zedd what his mother should do since he can't MAKE her do anything anymore than she could MAKE Zedd do anything.
A lot of the advice is mixed with things like if your smart enough to do x, y, z why can't you take care of yourself...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 8:30:39 PM
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Qtman
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John I have strived to avoid being judgmental in this thread. I have not gotten into the christian/unchristian behavior. I have stated the mother has a right to make and amend rules in her home and she does. I have not stated an opinion one way or the other as to whether it is christian or not. Yet you have consistently posted about how she is wrong morally and in christian terms too. You simply do not have enough information to reach the conclusion you have reached. Unless of course you are more powerful than the rest of the posters in these threads. Which somehow I doubt.
Something noone has brought up yet is some sects of the Quakers practice shuning. It would appear that the OP has denounced Christianity and maybe even God Himself. Maybe the mother is trying to avoid a situation where she would be required by her church to shun her own son. This may sound far fetched but it is a possibility. We have no evidence one way or another.
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STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 8:50:41 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7421
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From: East Bay Area
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
Renegotiation is appropriate, IMO.
And sometimes a necessity.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 8:51:37 PM
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stellaluna
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I just read this entire thread. (Someone get me a snack, I'm tired.)
1) I don't think Zedd's mother should have gone back on their agreement, but I don't believe that there wasn't an incident that forced her to feel she had to. That's based on his posts in this thread, which I don't particularly think are respectful toward his elders and strangers at that. In fact, Zedd, you remind me a lot of me when I was your age and thinking I didn't believe the same thing as my parents. I made sure they always knew we were on opposite sides. It causes a lot of strife and it's a very immature thing to do and someday I hope you realize that. (You know what I did? I MOVED OUT.) If you want us to really give a good answer to your question, you should put your mom on here and let her tell us her side of the story. At the very least, you can answer the following:
a) was there an agreement in writing
b) did your mom say "this is our agreement unless I determine otherwise"
c) do you pay for anything of your own--food, utilities, gasoline, etc.
2) I do work at a community college and I can tell you for a fact that we have thousands of students working full-time while attending classes full-time. Working full-time does not do away with your scholarship money or your grant money. The only way Zedd would jeopardize his financial aid would be if he drops below a full load. I and my three siblings all worked our way through college. All of us took longer than four years because we were working. Yes, there are millions of students doing it all over the world. It is extremely rare anymore for a student to not work while attending college. I don't know a single one.
3) My best advice is to move out. Get a roommate or roommates. Rent a room from someone. Find a cheaper school. Move to a cheaper town. There are lots and lots of options that don't include believing in God or going to church or baiting your mother or giving into her "instigations" etc.
Loved this:
quote:
When you become an independent adult who supports himself, then we can talk about you having no obligations to anyone but yourself. You made the decision to live with your parents, and that comes with all sorts of consequences, responsibilities and obligations.
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 8:55:13 PM
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kmangel
Posts: 443
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zedd
A) She believed that I would make the choice to go.
B) She is upset that she can't convince me to go verbally.
C) There has been disharmony in the house because of A & B.
We can't argue people into the Kingdom, that's for sure! Even if you went with your Mom to church, right now I don't think God would want you there. Motives matter. It matters to God why you are at church. It's sad that what is happening is eroding your relationship with your mother. As much as I want to see my two grown sons in a church (not necessarily my church but a Christian church), I don't want to push them away from me and God in the process because of my trying to force my beliefs on them. I want them to want to seek God of their own accord. I used to be more zealous in the past. Not so much now. I'm trusting God to work in their lives. I have no choice. This is God's battle, not mine.
Having said that, it is imperative that you choose. You are living with your mother and she has some standards you disagree with. Are you going to continue to allow the erosion of your relationship with your mother? Really, the ball is in your court. I know that you feel that she is overstepping her boundary into your space, but what are you going to do about it? Life is full of similar situations. This is one about church, but all of life is full of choices. If you really feel as strongly about not going to church with your mother and she's made it clear that she expects you to go, then what is your recourse? Continuous strife? That's what this is all about--your resisting is bring discord into your family's life. That is not God's desire for you and your mother. That much I do know. So what are you going to do about it?
I don't know where you stand on believing in God, but you can take this problem to God. Sit down with Him and see what He tells you to do.
_____________________________
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
--Mark Twain
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 9:10:11 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
Renegotiation is appropriate, IMO.
And sometimes a necessity.
Renegotiation is on a different planet from what has been put forth by some here... That entails both parties coming to an agreement on the changes...
John
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RE: Is it acceptable for Christian family to kick out a... - 4/21/2008 9:14:39 PM
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2shaye
Posts: 5347
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From: So. Cal.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
Renegotiation is appropriate, IMO.
And sometimes a necessity.
Renegotiation is on a different planet from what has been put forth by some here... That entails both parties coming to an agreement on the changes...
John
I disagree. If mom, for ANY REASON feels the need to renegotiate, or whatever words you want to use - change the rules, I believe she can! If the son does not agree with the new rules, he can move out!
We've posted pages and pages (especially you, John) about this when it's really not that deep of an issue. Mom wants him to go to church, he doesn't want to = he needs to leave or suck it up and go! Why is there so much discussion about this?
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