RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (Full Version)

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1love1God1way -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 8:41:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

I have never prayed that way, and to be perfectly honest, have never questioned or raged anything God has done or allowed in my life. Because His ways and thoughts are higher than mine, I am limited in my understanding, and so am unable to determine what His purposes are in a particular trial or tribulation. I just trust Him because I know He loves me...and because He is God and I'm not.


Good for you, Kat. That's a great testimony to live in so much faithfulness.

Some of us, like Jacob, find ourselves wrestling with God.

We always lose, but we come out of it for the better just the same.



bluestone -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 8:43:04 PM)

I think people sometimes forget that we are to be in awe of God. We are to be respectful of Him.
Why would I talk to Him in a way I would never talk to my Earthly Father? I would not intentionally be disrespectful to Him.



1love1God1way -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 8:44:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

I think people sometimes forget that we are to be in awe of God. We are to be respectful of Him.
Why would I talk to Him in a way I would never talk to my Earthly Father? I would not intentionally be disrespectful to Him.


Is it more respectful to a God who knows our heart, to feel one thing, but then act another towards Him?



oldmethuselah -> And THAT, dear friends, is the WHOLE ballgame! (4/15/2008 8:47:02 PM)

What you have just witnessed in this thread illustrates exactly WHY some Christians cannot even BEGIN to enter into the mindset of other Christians!

Or...even, more telling, why a Christian at ONE stage in his/her life, cannot begin to understand HOW he/she could have BEHAVED at ANOTHER stage in life!

The Church (not building) of Christ consists of a blend of:

The beautiful NAIEVETY new Christians who has not yet suffered life changing reversals,

The battle-scarred saints who have proven His steadfastness so often, they cannot even remember a time when honor and reverence for Him was not their watchword..

and, in the MIDDLE,

some who have just suffered their first major crisis (almost taking them by surprise after the glory days of new birth),
those going through the dark valley of the death of a child...
those facing violence and evil which they did nothing to deserve (small wonder at some of David's cursing psalms given his history)

AND, what are we called upon to do when the other Christians do not share our perspective?

well... I think FORBEARANCE might be in order, PATIENCE perhaps...



Kath -> RE: And THAT, dear friends, is the WHOLE ballgame! (4/15/2008 8:53:31 PM)

quote:

What you have just witnessed in this thread illustrates exactly WHY some Christians cannot even BEGIN to enter into the mindset of other Christians!


I agree with that. I'd never presume to tell anyone their prayers are inappropriate. I can't pray, raging at God because of the way I feel but that doesn't mean someone ought to feel that way. That is between them and the Lord.

Besides the OP just asked if we rage at God, he didn't ask to debate if it's right or wrong.



ladyichigo -> RE: And THAT, dear friends, is the WHOLE ballgame! (4/15/2008 8:56:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldmethuselah

What you have just witnessed in this thread illustrates exactly WHY some Christians cannot even BEGIN to enter into the mindset of other Christians!

Or...even, more telling, why a Christian at ONE stage in his/her life, cannot begin to understand HOW he/she could have BEHAVED at ANOTHER stage in life!

The Church (not building) of Christ consists of a blend of:

The beautiful NAIEVETY new Christians who has not yet suffered life changing reversals,

The battle-scarred saints who have proven His steadfastness so often, they cannot even remember a time when honor and reverence for Him was not their watchword..

and, in the MIDDLE,

some who have just suffered their first major crisis (almost taking them by surprise after the glory days of new birth),
those going through the dark valley of the death of a child...
those facing violence and evil which they did nothing to deserve (small wonder at some of David's cursing psalms given his history)

AND, what are we called upon to do when the other Christians do not share our perspective?

well... I think FORBEARANCE might be in order, PATIENCE perhaps...



May God's wisdom continue to be bestowed on you.



deliveredarling -> RE: And THAT, dear friends, is the WHOLE ballgame! (4/15/2008 8:58:44 PM)

I have a ton of emotions about different things. If I am angry, I take it to God. If I am sad, I take it to God, if I am happy, I take it to God. For me not to, is to not trust that He can handle my emotions. For me to not take it to Him and keep it to myself, is my own loss. Besides that, He already knows what I'm feeling anyway. I can't hide it from Him, to think that by not telling Him I am angry with Him, is delusional. Afterall, He is God and I am ........a sinner. Nothing is to big for Him, even our anger. It is not disrespectful, it is a sign of trust.....



SD456 -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 9:10:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knolt

here's an example of one of my not so saintly prayers to God when I go through trying times. I've prayed this before "God, I know Your Word says to be thankful in all trials and afflictions, well I'm not thankful for this at all!! THIS SUCKS!!! Why does it have to be this way!?" Any of you ever pray prayers like this before or similar to this?


Not exactly those words, but yes. God wants us to be honest with Him and there's no other way to be honest sometimes but to pour out our hearts and frustrations.

I've told God a few times through my life that "I'm tired. I don't want to do this anymore! I'm not thankful right now! I'm angry at you," etc. And amazingly His love envelopes me and He helps me walk through it.

What a God.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 9:18:00 PM)

As long as you are connecting with God, I don't think He minds how.

I don't think I have ever asked why something happened to me because I know I deserve much worse.

I've used bad language with God. Its not like He has never heard it before.



Kat_D -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 9:19:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

I have never prayed that way, and to be perfectly honest, have never questioned or raged anything God has done or allowed in my life. Because His ways and thoughts are higher than mine, I am limited in my understanding, and so am unable to determine what His purposes are in a particular trial or tribulation. I just trust Him because I know He loves me...and because He is God and I'm not.


Good for you, Kat. That's a great testimony to live in so much faithfulness.

Some of us, like Jacob, find ourselves wrestling with God.

We always lose, but we come out of it for the better just the same.

Absolutely...that's the beauty of God. But, it is oh, so much easier on us if we go quietly; not kicking and screaming all the way.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oldmethusala
The battle-scarred saints who have proven His steadfastness so often, they cannot even remember a time when honor and reverence for Him was not their watchword.

No, not "cannot even remember," because it has always been so with me. Not bragging...I just never thought I had an option not to honor and reverence Him.

There is a new generation of Christians coming up that have cheapened and reduced the Lord to a base, human level. They have wrongly assumed that He is like us. He is not. He is God and deserves our fear, love, and awesome respect.



1love1God1way -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 9:21:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

Absolutely...that's the beauty of God. But, it is oh, so much easier on us if we go quietly; not kicking and screaming all the way.




Sometimes it's the only way I learn.



ladyichigo -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 9:22:17 PM)

I don't exactly know what "stage" I am, but

This is an example of my prayer during stressful times:

"Holy Spirit, I don’t even know how to pray right now. Father! I am so tired! I think I'm doing this all on my own strength. I don’t want to do this anymore! Forgive me Father for not relying on You. I'm having such a difficult time and I know I have to rely on You, so Jesus, I lay it all at Your feet. Thank you Jesus for taking up my burdens.”



1love1God1way -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 9:32:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladyichigo

I don't exactly know what "stage" I am, but

This is an example of my prayer during stressful times:

"Holy Spirit, I don’t even know how to pray right now. Father! I am so tired! I think I'm doing this all on my own strength. I don’t want to do this anymore! Forgive me Father for not relying on You. I'm having such a difficult time and I know I have to rely on You, so Jesus, I lay it all at Your feet. Thank you Jesus for taking up my burdens.”


Lately, some of my prayers just go "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!"



one_guy -> Re: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 9:40:49 PM)

I don't worry about saying things right when I pray. I'm not worried about offending God either. He already knows what's in my head/heart and hears me before I pray. Why try to be fancy or polite? God's my friend and so I talk to him like he's my friend.

Yes, I've questioned him at times. Yes, I've probably said some politically incorrect things at times. Yes, I've made promises that I haven't been able to keep. I don't regret any of it either. God is living in me - a very imperfect human being. I think he knows what to expect. And he still loves me .... that's what is so cool about it.



oldmethuselah -> And THAT, dear friends, is the WHOLE ballgame! (4/15/2008 9:50:44 PM)

Ah...Kat..

quote:

No, not "cannot even remember," because it has always been so with me. Not bragging...I just never thought I had an option not to honor and reverence Him.


well, I never thought of such a young bright illuminary such as yourself as a "battle scarred veteran"...ROFL

I mean look at that EYE pic alone... no Oil of Olay needed here! LOL

still, PHYSICAL age and SPIRITUAL age are not a one to one correspondence in the Christian world, so I bow to your conviction in the matter, and am pleased to hear you have been able to "keep your cool" so to speak through many adversities...

You will, I trust, recognize that SOME (such as David) were not quite so self-controlled and though they probably take a different view later, were expressing what they felt at the time to the One who knew precisely what they were thinking even if their lips had remained silent.[/i]

However, carry on your valuable contributions - which, as you know, I have appreciated on MANY occasions! [:)]



makarizo -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 9:55:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way


Lately, some of my prayers just go "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!"

I KNOW THAT PRAYER!!!! for me that is one I say on my knees.

social injustice makes me angry.... very angry.... I always take that anger to the lord... cast it upon Him. Sometimes I think I care to much, ... if I didn't care, perhaps all would be okay..... I hash that out with God - God knows the intentions of my heart, He knows the amount of faith I have.. I can't put one past Him.



deliveredarling -> RE: Re: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 9:59:52 PM)

I think it is very important to remember that He is our friend, who laid down His life for us. It is my opinion and how I develop and grow with Him to lay it all on the line with Him. Some of the things I have read, make it seem as though He is unreachable. Love casts out all fear! Is it disrespectful to tell your mother/father that you are angry, hurt, sad, tired, happy? Is it disrespectful to pour your heart out because a loved one has tragically passed on? What about a spouse cheating or a divorce? A child who is on drugs? All of these things invoke emotions within us. it seems very unrealistic to believe that people actually tuck their tails and run from God with their emotions. Do people really believe that God is going to smite them during these instances? I must ask what Jesus does do we know? I know Jesus as the one who called me to Him despite my emotions or anything else I have done. He even called me back when i walked away for so many years. Yes, I can gladly say anything to Him, especially the things I could not possibly tell anyonelse.



maddog4god -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 10:06:15 PM)

I think it's all well and good to say, "one ought not do that" and if your life has never "been there" your best course of action is to get on your knees and thank God he has blessed with that kind of life.

As for me - I spent ten long years being sexually, verbally and physically abused by multiple persons. My father was killed and my spouse has been abusive to me.

I have had to hold on by my finger nails some times to stick with God.

I have to crawl through desert on my hands and knees to get my victory.

To have done anything other then what I did (be angry WITH God AND be honest) would have been a lie and I will not lie to God. I will not even sing songs in church that I don't mean. I am very careful about what I will and will not say to God. If I don' t mean it - I don't say it.

No one but me has walked in my shoes, and I do not think if you are in that kind of messed up, dead place that you better not be anything but honest with God because anything else would be more wrong then being angry.



Liveloved -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 10:25:21 PM)

And another good reminder of the kind of honesty the Lord loves comes from Jesus' mouth while He was hanging on the cross:

"My God, My God, Why hast Thou forsaken Me?"


Your "not so saintly prayer" is following the pattern of the Teacher. Bless you, Knolt![:)]



OLEEguacamole -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 10:37:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knolt

here's an example of one of my not so saintly prayers to God when I go through trying times. I've prayed this before "God, I know Your Word says to be thankful in all trials and afflictions, well I'm not thankful for this at all!! THIS SUCKS!!! Why does it have to be this way!?" Any of you ever pray prayers like this before or similar to this?

this does not sound like an angry at God prayer to me. it sounds like a frustrated with life stuff prayer.

it seems perfectly appropriate to pour out our frustrations before God. it is wise however to follow it by listening, and allowing God's word, and Holy Spirit to teach us, settle us etc as part of the process. it needs to include a surrender to God.



Kat_D -> RE: And THAT, dear friends, is the WHOLE ballgame! (4/15/2008 11:30:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldmethuselah

Ah...Kat..

quote:

No, not "cannot even remember," because it has always been so with me. Not bragging...I just never thought I had an option not to honor and reverence Him.


well, I never thought of such a young bright illuminary such as yourself as a "battle scarred veteran"...ROFL

I mean look at that EYE pic alone... no Oil of Olay needed here! LOL

still, PHYSICAL age and SPIRITUAL age are not a one to one correspondence in the Christian world, so I bow to your conviction in the matter, and am pleased to hear you have been able to "keep your cool" so to speak through many adversities...

You will, I trust, recognize that SOME (such as David) were not quite so self-controlled and though they probably take a different view later, were expressing what they felt at the time to the One who knew precisely what they were thinking even if their lips had remained silent.[/i]

However, carry on your valuable contributions - which, as you know, I have appreciated on MANY occasions! [:)]


Ah, you know I love ya, Old! Somehow though, I just don't think you're as old as you'd like us to think you are...or maybe it's because you're young at heart![;)]

I am not saying that I haven't poured my heart out to the Lord...I have. But when I do I always try to keep the Lord in His rightful place (high and lifted up) and me in mine (bowed down and humbled) when I do it.



Kat_D -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/15/2008 11:40:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

And another good reminder of the kind of honesty the Lord loves comes from Jesus' mouth while He was hanging on the cross:

"My God, My God, Why hast Thou forsaken Me?"


Your "not so saintly prayer" is following the pattern of the Teacher. Bless you, Knolt![:)]


This was the OP's question of us:

quote:

Any of you ever pray prayers like this before or similar to this?


We are just being honest with our answers as to whether or not we pray the way the OP does. If I don't, would you rather I said I do so as not to offend him? I don't think he would have asked if he didn't expect us to tell him the truth. You seem to have taken offense for the OP when none was intended.



ManimalX -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/16/2008 12:55:11 AM)

I respectfully ask that I not be dinged with a TOS violation in my response to the OP. A frequent prayer of mine, a heartfelt request often accompanied with uncontrollable tears is, "God damn abortion!"

Not a prayer directly against abortionists, though I have prayed that at certain times, but a prayer against the abhorrent murder of babies.

I want it to stop.



oldmethuselah -> So where is the PERPETRATOR? (4/16/2008 7:02:55 AM)

You remember the NRA's flimsy diversion...

"It's NOT guns that kill people, it's PEOPLE who kill people"?

Well, as heartfelt as your prayer against abortion is, ManimalX, I am afraid we cannot take the human element out of things.

If we wanted to talk about damning, it is PEOPLE not THINGS that can suffer this fate...

that is to say... there is such a thing as a naturally occurring abortion, and, I would think, you are not referring to that at all (within the context of our fallen world such sad things occur)

so... IF we agree that we are talking about the actions of certain depraved individuals, who for a variety of reasons, terminate viable healthy babies in the womb, then it is THOSE HUMANS that should suffer the fate you propose (not the action of abortion itself)...

ah... but THERE'S the rub....

MANY people who come here (including myself) would agree that the perpetrators of such deeds deserve EXTREME condemnation (damning if I am allowed to say it)...

HOWEVER...we then get into the question.... Don't We ALL?

so, unwittingly perhaps, we have gotten back into the old HEIERARCHY OF SINS mentality that plagues our secular, non-Christian, fellow humans.

(you know, the ones who justify a little soft porn because it is "not as bad as" child porn...etc. etc.)

YES, we all deserve condemnation, YES, abortionists are reprehensible, but...

when we cry MERCY for ourselves (for who can stand God's JUSTICE)... are we not enjoined to cry MERCY for those OTHER wicked people as well?

we are all PERPETRATORS of terrible things, are we not?

Now, back to the OP...

When the MURDERING, LYING, ADULTEROUS David, (a man described elsewhere as "a man after God's own heart") called down Cursing Prayers on his enemies, I have a feeling, he had forgotten, his own track record or not realized his own tendencies for "soon to be" deeds -



WesP -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/16/2008 8:49:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

I think people sometimes forget that we are to be in awe of God. We are to be respectful of Him.
Why would I talk to Him in a way I would never talk to my Earthly Father? I would not intentionally be disrespectful to Him.


This is how I feel. I cannot curse and rage at God. I am afraid that He would just take me out of my misery quick, fast, and in a hurry. It would terrify me. I don't go to God in prayer and try to lie. That is ridiculous to even think. He knows when I am angry, but that does not mean I need to rage at Him. Most of the bad things (not all by any means) that happened in my life are consequences of my choices. I do not see what healing will come from anger at God. If He protects me from everything, how can I choose Him? There would be no trials to give me a choice. That would be a posh relationship, huh? Just my 2 cents...



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