RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone?

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bluestone -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/16/2008 8:54:21 AM)
I think it reflects on the society we live in. People are no longer able to communicate their feelings or emotions without using foul filthy language, or being in a rage or rant. Showing respect to our Creator does not mean hiding or covering up how we are or how we feel. It means communicating in a manner that shows His place in the universe, and ours.

RHardin15 -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/16/2008 10:04:31 AM)
I speak to God how I speak to anyone else. I don't talk differently, because I feel as though He is a close friend that I share thoughts with. Not only that, but He is so much more! I know that He is capable of helping me through anything. Yeah, I've gotten mad before, like when I didn't understand why He didn't answer a prayer the way I wanted it to be answered. It's tough to understand that His will is perfect, and when we think our prayers should be answered how we want them answered, we can have a tendency to step in the flesh, and be furious, and direct some of that anger towards God. I don't think it's right to be mad at God. I do know that everyone sins, and most of us do it every day. I think just as you would apologize to a friend that you got mad at, we should apologize to God. I don't like fake prayers. I struggle praying in front of people, because most of the time, I find it hard to be sincere doing it that way. I know that when I sit down (typically when I'm driving) and start talking to God, He hears me, and I can't be insincere.

Liveloved -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/16/2008 11:53:29 AM)
quote: This was the OP's question of us: quote: Any of you ever pray prayers like this before or similar to this? We are just being honest with our answers as to whether or not we pray the way the OP does. If I don't, would you rather I said I do so as not to offend him? I don't think he would have asked if he didn't expect us to tell him the truth. You seem to have taken offense for the OP when none was intended. No offense has been taken by me. But I listen to those who are speaking and the OP framed this question as "not so saintly prayers? anyone?" and implied in that statement is the fact that he (and others?) sees these/his prayers as being wrong but asking for confirmation---do others pray this way? And included in many of the answers given by responders is their thought regarding the rightness or wrongness of this type of prayer. It is fine if you do not or have not prayed this way. My concern is that we communicate a godly answer to his question. And the type of prayer the OP has illustrated could be right out of the psalter! The psalmist's were bold, truthful, and blatantly honest with God about how they were feeling, about their situations, about others and even about God. Godly prayer is honest, truthful prayer. The psalms are filled with God's own examples of "not so saintly prayers". My concern for the OP was that he be told that his prayers are what God desires from him---absolute and utter honesty. I was giving godly counsel. Many others have expressed the same. We are not 'saints' because we are good. We are saints because we are bad, know it, confess it, are willing to see ourselves and be honest about who we truly are---with God and with others. And that certainly and especially includes our prayer life. Bless ya, Kat![:)]

DaveW -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/16/2008 12:01:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bluestone no, But occasionally my prayers consist of : "Oh, God, Oh, God, Oh, God, Oh, God, Oh, God, Oh, God, Oh, God,!" BT,DT.

AmazedByMercy -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/16/2008 4:36:20 PM)
quote: .... But I listen to those who are speaking and the OP framed this question as "not so saintly prayers? anyone?" and implied in that statement is the fact that he (and others?) sees these/his prayers as being wrong but asking for confirmation---do others pray this way? And included in many of the answers given by responders is their thought regarding the rightness or wrongness of this type of prayer. It is fine if you do not or have not prayed this way. My concern is that we communicate a godly answer to his question. And the type of prayer the OP has illustrated could be right out of the psalter! The psalmist's were bold, truthful, and blatantly honest with God about how they were feeling, about their situations, about others and even about God. Godly prayer is honest, truthful prayer. The psalms are filled with God's own examples of "not so saintly prayers". My concern for the OP was that he be told that his prayers are what God desires from him---absolute and utter honesty. I was giving godly counsel. Many others have expressed the same. We are not 'saints' because we are good. We are saints because we are bad, know it, confess it, are willing to see ourselves and be honest about who we truly are---with God and with others. And that certainly and especially includes our prayer life. Bless ya, Kat![:)] What God wants from us, among other things, is a relationship. We can go to Abba Father for anything because He already knows the desires of our hearts and His Word tells us that He knows our thoughts and words before they are even formed in our mouths. Having a relationship is having honesty and trying to "hide" your frustrations or anger puts a wedge in a relationship. We can tell our earthly father that we are frustrated, angry or hurt about a situation so how much more so are we able to take it to Papa God. There is a small book entitled "The Power of Crying Out" that puts this in perspective. We are only human and can't see the big picture - He knows how it is all going to turn out so He gives us the privilege of coming boldly to His Throne and casting our cares on Him.

SD456 -> RE: And THAT, dear friends, is the WHOLE ballgame! (4/16/2008 4:54:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: oldmethuselah Ah...Kat.. quote: No, not "cannot even remember," because it has always been so with me. Not bragging...I just never thought I had an option not to honor and reverence Him. well, I never thought of such a young bright illuminary such as yourself as a "battle scarred veteran"...ROFL I mean look at that EYE pic alone... no Oil of Olay needed here! LOL still, PHYSICAL age and SPIRITUAL age are not a one to one correspondence in the Christian world, so I bow to your conviction in the matter, and am pleased to hear you have been able to "keep your cool" so to speak through many adversities... You will, I trust, recognize that SOME (such as David) were not quite so self-controlled and though they probably take a different view later, were expressing what they felt at the time to the One who knew precisely what they were thinking even if their lips had remained silent. However, carry on your valuable contributions - which, as you know, I have appreciated on MANY occasions! Yes, David is a good example of one who questioned God and spilled all out to Him. It has nothing to do with 'not' reverencing God, it has everything to do with having an intimate, growing, real relationship with Him. An honest man can reverence and honour God and still be bluntly honest to Him with his heart. God is a big God and is never shocked by our honest confessions.

Knolt -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/16/2008 9:32:34 PM)
brothers and sisters, years ago i when I was a younger Christian, I thought it was wrong and even sacriligious to have that attitude of heart, let alone pray like that. Here's how I USED to pray years ago when suffering affliction(s). I USED to pray "Lord, help me see beyond my own selfishness, 'change me' oh God and help me see beyond my own selfishness. Change my attitude. Give me patience, etc." Years ago in my right mind I would totally think those "not so saintly prayers" to be sinful. Recently it has occured to me that God knows what's in my heart so why should I try to hide it from Him? Why should I tell him otherwise?

Liveloved -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/16/2008 10:46:59 PM)
quote: brothers and sisters, years ago i when I was a younger Christian, I thought it was wrong and even sacriligious to have that attitude of heart, let alone pray like that. Here's how I USED to pray years ago when suffering affliction(s). I USED to pray "Lord, help me see beyond my own selfishness, 'change me' oh God and help me see beyond my own selfishness. Change my attitude. Give me patience, etc." Years ago in my right mind I would totally think those "not so saintly prayers" to be sinful. Recently it has occured to me that God knows what's in my heart so why should I try to hide it from Him? Why should I tell him otherwise? Right on, Knolt! That's exactly the place the Lord would have you come---honesty, absolute truthfulness with Him. David prayed that way and was a man after God's own heart. Bless you for your truthfulness![:)]

WesP -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 8:29:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Liveloved quote: brothers and sisters, years ago i when I was a younger Christian, I thought it was wrong and even sacriligious to have that attitude of heart, let alone pray like that. Here's how I USED to pray years ago when suffering affliction(s). I USED to pray "Lord, help me see beyond my own selfishness, 'change me' oh God and help me see beyond my own selfishness. Change my attitude. Give me patience, etc." Years ago in my right mind I would totally think those "not so saintly prayers" to be sinful. Recently it has occured to me that God knows what's in my heart so why should I try to hide it from Him? Why should I tell him otherwise? Right on, Knolt! That's exactly the place the Lord would have you come---honesty, absolute truthfulness with Him. David prayed that way and was a man after God's own heart. Bless you for your truthfulness![:)] What y'all are missing is that our refusal to pray in your way has nothing to do with being dishonest. It has everything to do with respect. I feel that if I had to communicate in that manner, it would display some things that I am keeping in my heart that should not be there. Please, stop making it sound like we are dishonest when we pray. That is totally wrong.

bluestone -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 8:30:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AmazedByMercy Having a relationship is having honesty and trying to "hide" your frustrations or anger puts a wedge in a relationship. We can tell our earthly father that we are frustrated, angry or hurt about a situation so how much more so are we able to take it to Papa God. Have an attitude of reverence DOES NOT MEAN that we are not being honest or are hiding our frustrations from God. It means we are showing a respectful attitude toward Him. I think the focus of prayer needs to be "Change MY heart, O, God", not what amounts to cussing God out because we have not gotten our way. We can tell Him our hurt , pain, and lack of understanding without being full of nasty attitude.

Kath -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 9:23:45 AM)
quote: I think the focus of prayer needs to be "Change MY heart, O, God", not what amounts to cussing God out because we have not gotten our way. We can tell Him our hurt , pain, and lack of understanding without being full of nasty attitude. Exactly. I think one can talk to God about frustrations but what is our attitude while we do it? Do we blame God? Do we rant? I know a friend of mine got to the point after ranting and carrying on she said she just couldn't pray anymore, so I suggested she sing praise songs. That ranting and carrying on affected her relationship with the Lord. That kind of attitude causes people to move away from God. How many times have we heard of people moving away from God because all the ranting didn't move Him the way they thought He ought to be moved?

bluestone -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 10:28:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace What y'all are missing is that our refusal to pray in your way has nothing to do with being dishonest. It has everything to do with respect. I feel that if I had to communicate in that manner, it would display some things that I am keeping in my heart that should not be there. Please, stop making it sound like we are dishonest when we pray. That is totally wrong. I totally agree, Wes. I liken it to movies . Some let you know that a couple is about to be romantic, and the curtain comes down on that scene. Some show pornographic images of the couple "In action". The pornographic may be more "real" and "Honest", but it totally lacks respect .

Liveloved -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 10:30:08 AM)
quote: What y'all are missing is that our refusal to pray in your way has nothing to do with being dishonest. It has everything to do with respect. I feel that if I had to communicate in that manner, it would display some things that I am keeping in my heart that should not be there. Please, stop making it sound like we are dishonest when we pray. That is totally wrong. If we go back to the OP, you will see the question was regarding "unsaintly prayers" and is this kind of prayer OK and do you ever pray this way? (my paraphrase) My responses all along have been just to affirm to this individual that his prayers are right in line with the prayers found in God's word in the Psalms. They are honest, truthful and from the heart. They are the kind of prayers God desires from us. No one is telling you you have to pray this way or your prayers are dishonest. I certainly would not say this. I think as we respond to posts we need to keep in mind who we are responding to. This person was looking for affirmation---am what I'm doing or have done, OK? My answer was a resounding YES! They were also looking for a sense of belonging---are we alike? And again my answer was YES. They were not asking for us to defend 'our' way of praying but is 'their' way of praying OK. That is what I did. That is what I always want to do. It's not about me. It's about THEIR need and my desire is to always respond as the Lord would respond. How does He see their need? How would He respond? Hope that helps us come to greater understanding of one another.[:)]

Kat_D -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 10:57:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Knolt brothers and sisters, years ago i when I was a younger Christian, I thought it was wrong and even sacriligious to have that attitude of heart, let alone pray like that. Here's how I USED to pray years ago when suffering affliction(s). I USED to pray "Lord, help me see beyond my own selfishness, 'change me' oh God and help me see beyond my own selfishness. Change my attitude. Give me patience, etc." Years ago in my right mind I would totally think those "not so saintly prayers" to be sinful. Recently it has occured to me that God knows what's in my heart so why should I try to hide it from Him? Why should I tell him otherwise? Well, that's o.k., I'll pray that you come around again![sm=sidesmile.gif]

WesP -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 11:18:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Liveloved quote: What y'all are missing is that our refusal to pray in your way has nothing to do with being dishonest. It has everything to do with respect. I feel that if I had to communicate in that manner, it would display some things that I am keeping in my heart that should not be there. Please, stop making it sound like we are dishonest when we pray. That is totally wrong. If we go back to the OP, you will see the question was regarding "unsaintly prayers" and is this kind of prayer OK and do you ever pray this way? (my paraphrase) My responses all along have been just to affirm to this individual that his prayers are right in line with the prayers found in God's word in the Psalms. They are honest, truthful and from the heart. They are the kind of prayers God desires from us. No one is telling you you have to pray this way or your prayers are dishonest. I certainly would not say this. I think as we respond to posts we need to keep in mind who we are responding to. This person was looking for affirmation---am what I'm doing or have done, OK? My answer was a resounding YES! They were also looking for a sense of belonging---are we alike? And again my answer was YES. They were not asking for us to defend 'our' way of praying but is 'their' way of praying OK. That is what I did. That is what I always want to do. It's not about me. It's about THEIR need and my desire is to always respond as the Lord would respond. How does He see their need? How would He respond? Hope that helps us come to greater understanding of one another.[:)] I am very aware of what the OP says. I want to point out a few things from your posts that have caused me to make the post you are denying. I am not trying to argue, but I do want you to see what your focus has been on and how it seems that you believe another way is impossible. Your posts: quote: Be truthfull with the Lord quote: Where oh where oh where oh where do we get the idea that this kind of prayer is wrong???????????????????? I'll tell you. From proud flesh. . . God wants HONESTY, TRUTHFULLNESS. quote: And another good reminder of the kind of honesty the Lord loves quote: Godly prayer is honest, truthful prayer. quote: That's exactly the place the Lord would have you come---honesty, absolute truthfulness with Him. Now, do you see how you are coming across?

Kat_D -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 11:21:42 AM)
10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding." -Proverbs 9 33 "The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom, And before honor is humility."-Proverbs15 10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever." -Psalm 111 28" And to man He said, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, And to depart from evil is understanding." -Job 28 2 "The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord. 3 His delight is in the fear of the Lord, And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, Nor decide by the hearing of His ears..."-Isaiah 11 (talking about Jesus here...He feared the Lord) 6 "Wisdom and knowledge will be the stability of your times, And the strength of salvation; The fear of the Lord is His treasure." -Isaiah 33

bluestone -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 11:24:14 AM)
I think the scripture Kat_D had quoted certainly gives the impression that the "cuss-n-pray " attitude is disrespecful.

Liveloved -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 12:03:37 PM)
quote: Now, do you see how you are coming across? I do see. Please forgive me.[:)]LL

Focusing -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 12:04:49 PM)
Thank you Kat. Very beautiful verses.

sparkleingsnow -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 12:48:01 PM)
I looked at this thread a couple of days ago, but it was so hot that I didn't want to post on it. So here I am. LOL I've never prayed like that. Like Kat_D and several others that have posted, I have always felt that He is the Lord God Almighty and worthy of my respect no matter what I'm going through. Tell Him that I'm upset, angery, hurting yes. But I can do that without yelling at Him or blaming Him. Of course truthful about how I fell, He already knows anyway. I've been through some very painful times as we all have, but it never occured to me to blame God for them. All that being said, the Lord meets us each one, right where we are. God Bless

WesP -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 1:08:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Liveloved quote: Now, do you see how you are coming across? I do see. Please forgive me.[:)]LL We are OK. I was not mad. It just seemed judgmental. I do not think you meant it that way. Thank you. [;)]

Knolt -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 1:31:46 PM)
In this post I wasn't suggesting cussing out God. what cussword was I using in those prayers? When we pray all of those pretty and pious prayers, God knows whether we mean them or not. I've been a Christian for 13 years now. I DO get the feeling some people in Church that are going through trials and afflictions and what not try to kiss up to God with a bunch of pretty prayers just so God will make life better for them.

OLEEguacamole -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 1:45:34 PM)
prayer can be a mix of "this sucks" followed by surrending to the almighty God. not that one can't be surrendered while venting but we do have to move on toward casting all our cares. saying to God that something in your life sucks is not the same as saying "God you suck". fear/reverence is a balanced thing. our relationship includes intimacy and safety, the freedom of fear from condemnation while we are working out our salvation. romans 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba ! Father !"

Kat_D -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 1:48:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Knolt try to kiss up to God with a bunch of pretty prayers [sm=aside.gif]

1love1God1way -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 1:56:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kat_D 10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding." -Proverbs 9 33 "The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom, And before honor is humility."-Proverbs15 10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever." -Psalm 111 28" And to man He said, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, And to depart from evil is understanding." -Job 28 2 "The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord. 3 His delight is in the fear of the Lord, And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, Nor decide by the hearing of His ears..."-Isaiah 11 (talking about Jesus here...He feared the Lord) 6 "Wisdom and knowledge will be the stability of your times, And the strength of salvation; The fear of the Lord is His treasure." -Isaiah 33 What should I fear more? Saying a bad word, or being dishonest?

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