RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (Full Version)

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WesP -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 2:02:49 PM)

quote:

What should I fear more?

Saying a bad word, or being dishonest?


It has nothing to do with being dishonest. Some of us just feel that prayer is done with respect and reverence. We find it hard to mix reverence with an angry tirade. That's all.



bluestone -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 2:21:12 PM)

where are you people getting it from that showing respect is being dishonest?

I suppose if you don't respect God it would be dishonest to be respectful in the way you talk to Him in prayer, but don't label all of us that way. I am honset in prayer, and respectful. Because I respect Him and His position.

He is not a waiter, buddy, or garbage collector. He is Almight God, ruler of all creation.



Kat_D -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 2:22:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace

quote:

What should I fear more?

Saying a bad word, or being dishonest?


It has nothing to do with being dishonest. Some of us just feel that prayer is done with respect and reverence. We find it hard to mix reverence with an angry tirade. That's all.


Exactly!

This is the example and instruction left for us on how we are to pray:

9 In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. 13 And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. Matthew 6

Unless I'm missing something, no where do I see anything like, "It sucks that I don't have this or because You aren't doing that, Lord." or "I'm really ticked at You, God, because you let that happen!"

ETA: That sounds like a spoiled brat to me!



OLEEguacamole -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 2:25:20 PM)

the op didn't express anger about God that i can see.

is it wrong for us to go to God and tell him how utterly frustrating the people at work made us today?



OLEEguacamole -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 2:27:37 PM)

Psalm 89:38-52



WesP -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 2:38:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrsdash

the op didn't express anger about God that i can see.

is it wrong for us to go to God and tell him how utterly frustrating the people at work made us today?


I don't think anyone said it had to be anger at God. The simple fact is that when you communicate like that it reveals how you communicate normally. To vent and rant is an expression of anger at something or someone.

Philippians 4

5Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.

6Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

7And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.



txhoneydarlin -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 2:45:08 PM)

I'll step up and be honest here - I used to pray "pretty" prayers to God, until I realized that not only was I not being honest with myself, I wasn't being honest with God.

According to Psalms 139:1 and following, ("O Lord, you have examined my heart and know everything about me...") God knows what we are going to say before we say it. In Psalms 51, the scriptures tell us that God wants us to be honest with him. (Psalms 51:6 "You want me to be completely truthful, so teach me wisdom.") I believe that we can talk openly and honestly with God and that He will understand why we are doing so - in fact, scripture tells us in Hebrews 4:16, "So let us come boldly to the throne of our gracious God. There we will receive his mercy, and we will find grace to help us when we need it most." Ephesians 3:12 reiterates this fact, stating, "Because of Christ and our faith in him, we can now come boldly and confidently into God’s presence." How are we supposed to handle and express our true feelings, if we can't be honest with God? He is the one we can count on not to judge us, but rather to offer us His love and His understanding - and His forgiveness. I believe that we have to confess our true feelings to Him - and the sins that accompany them - before we can honestly ask for His forgiveness and to start to resolve whatever it is that angers us, hurts us, etc.

I guess the main thing, at least for me, to remember is to tell God everything that bothers me. I'm always completely open and honest about it, even if I'm mad. (Why hide anything? He knows all of it anyways.) Then I pray for God's forgiveness, God's will and God's guidance in my life, especially with the issues I just gave to Him.

Please know that I'm not meaning to say this in an argumentative way, but in Christian love and understanding of what Knolt asked.



WesP -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 2:49:04 PM)

It has been repeated many times that God knows the truth, so why try to fake it. My perspective is that all of us should definitely go straight to God when we are angry. However, we can go to God without speaking vitriole. After all, we should be praying for Him to help us let go of the anger. IMHO, continuing to speak with angry words will sidetrack the ability to heal.



OLEEguacamole -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 2:54:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrsdash

the op didn't express anger about God that i can see.

is it wrong for us to go to God and tell him how utterly frustrating the people at work made us today?


I don't think anyone said it had to be anger at God. The simple fact is that when you communicate like that it reveals how you communicate normally. To vent and rant is an expression of anger at something or someone.

Philippians 4

5Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.

6Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

7And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.


so we are NOT to talk to God about the stuff that made us mad today?

let your gentleness be known to all....
this is more likely if i tell God rather than those people how frustrated i was.

do not be anxious...present request to God...
does this mean we are not to experience anger, frustration, dispair in our lives? or that we are not to talk to God about it?

if we are to cast our cares doesn't that mean we HAVE cares?

the peace of God....goes beyond the reality of non peace in our lives. there must then be NON peace. we're not to speak of it to God in prayer?


David of the psalms went so far as to question God about how long he was taking to act, and whether or not He was keeping His covenant. yet david came back around to acknowledging God's sovereignty and gave Him due praise. david was raw and real and had to correct his human failings yet God called him a man after His own heart. david knew who was in charge and felt free to express all of his feelings and frustrations.



txhoneydarlin -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 2:56:53 PM)

Wes, I'm trying to understand here. I guess my question is - without letting go of all the anger and getting it off your chest, so to speak - how can you begin to heal? In my opinion, it doesn't work to be dishonest in any relationship - much less with God. Sometimes I will vent just to get things off my mind and my heart - and will feel better for it. (Ask my best buds... lol)

(Sidenote: I've read somewhere that men and women are not alike in this measure - sometimes a woman vents and feels better for it, when a man hears a vent and wants to fix it, when that wasn't our intention at all - we just wanted to talk about it and "let it go". I always feel better - even when I'm mad and talk to God about what I'm angry about - then ask for His forgiveness for my anger and ask Him to step in and take control of the matter. It's healing for me to feel comfortable enough with God to be able to do this. [;)])



bluestone -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:01:42 PM)

why do some of you equate respect with dishonesty?

Are you not able to verbalize your negative feelings without showing disrespect for God?



OLEEguacamole -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:07:23 PM)

i don't see the disrespect in the op example. what do you see? the tone of voice? the choice of words? there's no accusing God of anything in the example.

the psalmist however does go that far, questioning God and his actions.



WesP -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:13:32 PM)

mrsdash,

I specifically said go straight to God when you become angry. The point is that we should all learn how to react to anger. Saying things like -- "This sucks!" -- does not put one in a frame of mind to let go and let God. It is a pointless manifestation of the anger.


Melissa,

I simply think that we can tell God all about our anger without saying things that are crude. Anger is not a sin. Sometimes what you do with it may be. When we learn to accept God's sovreignty, we accept His peace, and the anger will not continue. Give it to Him without bashing. Does that help to clarify?



OLEEguacamole -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:15:51 PM)

we can't let go after venting? i just don't see in scripture where we are forbidden to voice our negative feelings.

i said early on that the venting needs to be followed by surrender etc.



txhoneydarlin -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:21:05 PM)

Wes, I understand what you are trying to say. However, in defense of the scripture I quoted:
quote:

According to Psalms 139:1 and following, ("O Lord, you have examined my heart and know everything about me...") God knows what we are going to say before we say it.
Why mince words with God if that is what is on our lips and in our head? (And if we do mince words, are we being dishonest and hiding our true feelings?) If I am angry with God (or with anything else), I am thankful that I can be honest about it with Him instead of thinking I must hide it, rephrase it or act "religious" about it. I gain understanding about this by reading in the Psalms about times when David openly expressed anger or frustration with God. (Psalms 22:1 - 6, Psalms 13:1 - 6 and Psalms:42: 9 - 11 come to mind.) What David has to say might have been considered crude back in his days, yet he was honest with God anyways. Does this help you to understand what I'm trying to say?



SD456 -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:33:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

where are you people getting it from that showing respect is being dishonest?

I suppose if you don't respect God it would be dishonest to be respectful in the way you talk to Him in prayer, but don't label all of us that way. I am honset in prayer, and respectful. Because I respect Him and His position.


*L* probably from the same stance that you guys come from in believing that being honest about anger is being DIS-respectful....

I believe all of our rants are pretty much about the circumstance and not about God. a "why me?" cry of anger isn't speaking against God, it's getting out the things that can poison our hearts.

But I agree with mrs dash that it then needs to go to the next step of worship and casting our cares to Him....



WesP -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:34:37 PM)

First of all, I am not judging any of you. I am just conveying my thoughts on it. If I allow myself to vent with vulgarity, then I may do it again when it is inappropriate. I feel that when something is inappropriate to say in one place, it should not be said at all. For me, the best thing is to avoid it always. Perhaps, you are different. No worries.



1love1God1way -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:38:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace

quote:

What should I fear more?

Saying a bad word, or being dishonest?


It has nothing to do with being dishonest. Some of us just feel that prayer is done with respect and reverence. We find it hard to mix reverence with an angry tirade. That's all.


Well. . . it could.

The pslamists at times questioned whether God even heard them. They bared themselves, their fears, their doubts, completely before the Lord.

If one were to have those same fears and doubts, but pretend like they aren't there when you pray, I would consider that to be dishonest.



SD456 -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:39:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace

I don't think anyone said it had to be anger at God. The simple fact is that when you communicate like that it reveals how you communicate normally. To vent and rant is an expression of anger at something or someone.

Philippians 4

5Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.

6Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

7And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.


We are humans and will fail. Those are wonderful verses to strive for, but impossible to be absolutely perfect in, in this life.

Sometimes frustrations have been buried so long because we're all trying to be 'nice little christians' that release comes through a blow-up. Our relationship with God is no different than any close, loving relationship we're in.

Thankfully He picks us up and leads us on.



txhoneydarlin -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:39:35 PM)

SD - Well said. Thank you for voicing what I couldn't find words to say.

Wes and others - Please do not think what I was saying was meant to be judgmental. It wasn't meant that way, and if it was taken that way, then please accept my sincere apologies. Like you, I was trying to give voice to my thoughts on the subject. In times like these, sometimes it's better to agree to disagree. [;)]



bluestone -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:41:24 PM)

quote:

probably from the same stance that you guys come from in believing that being honest about anger is being DIS-respectful....


That is not the stance being taken. You can tell God of your anger without being disrespectful to Him.



SD456 -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:47:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

quote:

probably from the same stance that you guys come from in believing that being honest about anger is being DIS-respectful....


That is not the stance being taken. You can tell God of your anger without being disrespectful to Him.


I re-read the OP to again see what he said that was so disrespectful and I just don't see it. Saying something 'sucks' certainly isn't disrespectful.

I've spoken to my earthly father this way. My earthly father was able to understand that I was angry and really, truly thought something "sucks!" and was fully able to handle it.

God is far bigger and far more able to understand than our earthly dads.



Kat_D -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:51:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

why do some of you equate respect with dishonesty?

...or "pride," "petty", "fake" and "insincere"...some of the other words used in this thread to describe those who revere and honor God and are respectful in our prayers.



OLEEguacamole -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:54:59 PM)

is it that some think it's disrespectful to say the word "sucks" outloud during a prayer?



bluestone -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/17/2008 3:55:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

quote:

probably from the same stance that you guys come from in believing that being honest about anger is being DIS-respectful....


That is not the stance being taken. You can tell God of your anger without being disrespectful to Him.


I re-read the OP to again see what he said that was so disrespectful and I just don't see it. Saying something 'sucks' certainly isn't disrespectful.

I've spoken to my earthly father this way. My earthly father was able to understand that I was angry and really, truly thought something "sucks!" and was fully able to handle it.

God is far bigger and far more able to understand than our earthly dads.


The OP is not the only one commenting in this thread.
God is even more deserving of our respect than even Earthly fathers. I shudder to think of the lack of humility some here seem to use when approaching the throne of the one true God.



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