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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 2:21:12 PM
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bluestone
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From: Saturn
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where are you people getting it from that showing respect is being dishonest?
I suppose if you don't respect God it would be dishonest to be respectful in the way you talk to Him in prayer, but don't label all of us that way. I am honset in prayer, and respectful. Because I respect Him and His position.
He is not a waiter, buddy, or garbage collector. He is Almight God, ruler of all creation.
_____________________________
If the witch at Endor were alive today, I wonder if she would be a road side fortune teller, or an
"extreme prophetess " in an emotion based signs-and-wonders church.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 2:22:05 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3421
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From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
quote:
What should I fear more?
Saying a bad word, or being dishonest?
It has nothing to do with being dishonest. Some of us just feel that prayer is done with respect and reverence. We find it hard to mix reverence with an angry tirade. That's all.
Exactly!
This is the example and instruction left for us on how we are to pray:
9 In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. 13 And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. Matthew 6
Unless I'm missing something, no where do I see anything like, "It sucks that I don't have this or because You aren't doing that, Lord." or "I'm really ticked at You, God, because you let that happen!"
ETA: That sounds like a spoiled brat to me!
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 4/17/2008 2:29:02 PM >
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
I weep for those who won't experience this because they have been deceived.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 2:25:20 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1113
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the op didn't express anger about God that i can see.
is it wrong for us to go to God and tell him how utterly frustrating the people at work made us today?
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there's life in a pit.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 2:27:37 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1113
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Psalm 89:38-52
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 2:45:08 PM
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txhoneydarlin
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I'll step up and be honest here - I used to pray "pretty" prayers to God, until I realized that not only was I not being honest with myself, I wasn't being honest with God.
According to Psalms 139:1 and following, ("O Lord, you have examined my heart and know everything about me...") God knows what we are going to say before we say it. In Psalms 51, the scriptures tell us that God wants us to be honest with him. (Psalms 51:6 "You want me to be completely truthful, so teach me wisdom.") I believe that we can talk openly and honestly with God and that He will understand why we are doing so - in fact, scripture tells us in Hebrews 4:16, "So let us come boldly to the throne of our gracious God. There we will receive his mercy, and we will find grace to help us when we need it most." Ephesians 3:12 reiterates this fact, stating, "Because of Christ and our faith in him, we can now come boldly and confidently into God’s presence." How are we supposed to handle and express our true feelings, if we can't be honest with God? He is the one we can count on not to judge us, but rather to offer us His love and His understanding - and His forgiveness. I believe that we have to confess our true feelings to Him - and the sins that accompany them - before we can honestly ask for His forgiveness and to start to resolve whatever it is that angers us, hurts us, etc.
I guess the main thing, at least for me, to remember is to tell God everything that bothers me. I'm always completely open and honest about it, even if I'm mad. (Why hide anything? He knows all of it anyways.) Then I pray for God's forgiveness, God's will and God's guidance in my life, especially with the issues I just gave to Him.
Please know that I'm not meaning to say this in an argumentative way, but in Christian love and understanding of what Knolt asked.
_____________________________
- Melissa
Unforgiveness is like taking poison and hoping your enemy will die. - Joyce Meyer
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 2:54:40 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1113
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
the op didn't express anger about God that i can see.
is it wrong for us to go to God and tell him how utterly frustrating the people at work made us today?
I don't think anyone said it had to be anger at God. The simple fact is that when you communicate like that it reveals how you communicate normally. To vent and rant is an expression of anger at something or someone.
Philippians 4
5Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.
6Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
7And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
so we are NOT to talk to God about the stuff that made us mad today?
let your gentleness be known to all....
this is more likely if i tell God rather than those people how frustrated i was.
do not be anxious...present request to God...
does this mean we are not to experience anger, frustration, dispair in our lives? or that we are not to talk to God about it?
if we are to cast our cares doesn't that mean we HAVE cares?
the peace of God....goes beyond the reality of non peace in our lives. there must then be NON peace. we're not to speak of it to God in prayer?
David of the psalms went so far as to question God about how long he was taking to act, and whether or not He was keeping His covenant. yet david came back around to acknowledging God's sovereignty and gave Him due praise. david was raw and real and had to correct his human failings yet God called him a man after His own heart. david knew who was in charge and felt free to express all of his feelings and frustrations.
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there's life in a pit.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 3:01:42 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 1738
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From: Saturn
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why do some of you equate respect with dishonesty?
Are you not able to verbalize your negative feelings without showing disrespect for God?
_____________________________
If the witch at Endor were alive today, I wonder if she would be a road side fortune teller, or an
"extreme prophetess " in an emotion based signs-and-wonders church.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 3:07:23 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1113
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i don't see the disrespect in the op example. what do you see? the tone of voice? the choice of words? there's no accusing God of anything in the example.
the psalmist however does go that far, questioning God and his actions.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 3:15:51 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1113
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we can't let go after venting? i just don't see in scripture where we are forbidden to voice our negative feelings.
i said early on that the venting needs to be followed by surrender etc.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 3:21:05 PM
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txhoneydarlin
Posts: 616
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Wes, I understand what you are trying to say. However, in defense of the scripture I quoted: quote:
According to Psalms 139:1 and following, ("O Lord, you have examined my heart and know everything about me...") God knows what we are going to say before we say it. Why mince words with God if that is what is on our lips and in our head? (And if we do mince words, are we being dishonest and hiding our true feelings?) If I am angry with God (or with anything else), I am thankful that I can be honest about it with Him instead of thinking I must hide it, rephrase it or act "religious" about it. I gain understanding about this by reading in the Psalms about times when David openly expressed anger or frustration with God. (Psalms 22:1 - 6, Psalms 13:1 - 6 and Psalms:42: 9 - 11 come to mind.) What David has to say might have been considered crude back in his days, yet he was honest with God anyways. Does this help you to understand what I'm trying to say?
_____________________________
- Melissa
Unforgiveness is like taking poison and hoping your enemy will die. - Joyce Meyer
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 3:33:33 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1505
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
where are you people getting it from that showing respect is being dishonest?
I suppose if you don't respect God it would be dishonest to be respectful in the way you talk to Him in prayer, but don't label all of us that way. I am honset in prayer, and respectful. Because I respect Him and His position.
*L* probably from the same stance that you guys come from in believing that being honest about anger is being DIS-respectful....
I believe all of our rants are pretty much about the circumstance and not about God. a "why me?" cry of anger isn't speaking against God, it's getting out the things that can poison our hearts.
But I agree with mrs dash that it then needs to go to the next step of worship and casting our cares to Him....
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 3:38:20 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 1985
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
quote:
What should I fear more?
Saying a bad word, or being dishonest?
It has nothing to do with being dishonest. Some of us just feel that prayer is done with respect and reverence. We find it hard to mix reverence with an angry tirade. That's all.
Well. . . it could.
The pslamists at times questioned whether God even heard them. They bared themselves, their fears, their doubts, completely before the Lord.
If one were to have those same fears and doubts, but pretend like they aren't there when you pray, I would consider that to be dishonest.
_____________________________
-Ben-
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 3:39:17 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1505
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
I don't think anyone said it had to be anger at God. The simple fact is that when you communicate like that it reveals how you communicate normally. To vent and rant is an expression of anger at something or someone.
Philippians 4
5Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.
6Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
7And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
We are humans and will fail. Those are wonderful verses to strive for, but impossible to be absolutely perfect in, in this life.
Sometimes frustrations have been buried so long because we're all trying to be 'nice little christians' that release comes through a blow-up. Our relationship with God is no different than any close, loving relationship we're in.
Thankfully He picks us up and leads us on.
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 3:41:24 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 1738
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: Saturn
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quote:
probably from the same stance that you guys come from in believing that being honest about anger is being DIS-respectful....
That is not the stance being taken. You can tell God of your anger without being disrespectful to Him.
_____________________________
If the witch at Endor were alive today, I wonder if she would be a road side fortune teller, or an
"extreme prophetess " in an emotion based signs-and-wonders church.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 3:47:31 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1505
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
quote:
probably from the same stance that you guys come from in believing that being honest about anger is being DIS-respectful....
That is not the stance being taken. You can tell God of your anger without being disrespectful to Him.
I re-read the OP to again see what he said that was so disrespectful and I just don't see it. Saying something 'sucks' certainly isn't disrespectful.
I've spoken to my earthly father this way. My earthly father was able to understand that I was angry and really, truly thought something "sucks!" and was fully able to handle it.
God is far bigger and far more able to understand than our earthly dads.
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 3:51:32 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3421
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
why do some of you equate respect with dishonesty?
...or "pride," "petty", "fake" and "insincere"...some of the other words used in this thread to describe those who revere and honor God and are respectful in our prayers.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
I weep for those who won't experience this because they have been deceived.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 3:54:59 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1113
Status: offline
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is it that some think it's disrespectful to say the word "sucks" outloud during a prayer?
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? - 4/17/2008 3:55:47 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 1738
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: Saturn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
quote:
probably from the same stance that you guys come from in believing that being honest about anger is being DIS-respectful....
That is not the stance being taken. You can tell God of your anger without being disrespectful to Him.
I re-read the OP to again see what he said that was so disrespectful and I just don't see it. Saying something 'sucks' certainly isn't disrespectful.
I've spoken to my earthly father this way. My earthly father was able to understand that I was angry and really, truly thought something "sucks!" and was fully able to handle it.
God is far bigger and far more able to understand than our earthly dads.
The OP is not the only one commenting in this thread.
God is even more deserving of our respect than even Earthly fathers. I shudder to think of the lack of humility some here seem to use when approaching the throne of the one true God.
_____________________________
If the witch at Endor were alive today, I wonder if she would be a road side fortune teller, or an
"extreme prophetess " in an emotion based signs-and-wonders church.
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