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Deleted User -> [Deleted] (4/19/2008 7:47:13 PM)

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Deleted User -> [Deleted] (4/19/2008 8:07:30 PM)

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armydude -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/19/2008 8:25:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tall_One

Did you ever lose your cool with your earthly dad at any time in your lifetime? Did you ever wale and say, "BUT WHY NOT DAD?????????"
Yes, and I paid the price.
I learned that the question was not the issue. The tone was the issue. Like I said earlier, I can talk to my dad about anything. But I remember that he IS my father, not just my bestest buddy.
quote:



God appreciates it when we do this with Him, sometimes. We are being human. We are being His creation. [;)]
God appreciates it when we're honest with him. If we don't understand, saying so is honesty. If we don't like something, saying so is honesty.
I am not called to be His creation. I already am that. I'm called to be His child, and to act like my Heavenly Father (1 Peter 1:16).
Saying, "God knows I'm like this," is no different in this instance than saying, "God knows I had a temper" as an excuse to murder someone.



OLEEguacamole -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/19/2008 9:17:13 PM)

except for one tiny little thing. it is not necessarily a sin to express frustration or anger, it is always a sin to murder.



armydude -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/19/2008 9:32:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrsdash

except for one tiny little thing. it is not necessarily a sin to express frustration or anger, it is always a sin to murder.
This is purely my opinion... but losing your temper with your Heavenly Father does not show faith. Without faith it is impossible to please Him. Shouldn't we be about pleasing Him?



Deleted User -> [Deleted] (4/19/2008 9:37:55 PM)

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OLEEguacamole -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/19/2008 11:10:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrsdash

except for one tiny little thing. it is not necessarily a sin to express frustration or anger, it is always a sin to murder.
This is purely my opinion... but losing your temper with your Heavenly Father does not show faith. Without faith it is impossible to please Him. Shouldn't we be about pleasing Him?

i think a faith walking person can have days and moments of less faith, less strength etc. expressing frustration etc is not a place to live.

also it's not faithless to feel very low and express that place to God. is it not a faith thing to approach the throne of God boldly not fearing condemnation?



Deleted User -> [Deleted] (4/20/2008 12:05:51 AM)

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SonInMe1 -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 12:22:16 AM)

I agree with respecting our God...I mean who wouldn't as a saved person?

Thing is....what our heart speaks or tongues do too. In other words, if you swear, its not surprising that could seep into your prayers.

There are better words to use. I cannot honestly say I have never used poor language when talking with God, that would be a lie.



armydude -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 7:49:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrsdash

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrsdash

except for one tiny little thing. it is not necessarily a sin to express frustration or anger, it is always a sin to murder.
This is purely my opinion... but losing your temper with your Heavenly Father does not show faith. Without faith it is impossible to please Him. Shouldn't we be about pleasing Him?

i think a faith walking person can have days and moments of less faith, less strength etc. expressing frustration etc is not a place to live.

also it's not faithless to feel very low and express that place to God. is it not a faith thing to approach the throne of God boldly not fearing condemnation?
It is a faith thing to be able to approach the throne of God boldly. But boldness and respect are not mutually exclusive traits. We can be bold and still be respectful.



themaestro -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 8:42:33 AM)

God is our father yes but he is also a big boy and can take out angry words. He would rather we be real than lukewarm with fake flowery words. Read the Psalms. David sounded very angry and confused at times and he was a man after God's own heart. If we cannot get out our frustrations and vent we will explode. Once I have yelled screamed and yes even cussed sometimes I do feel better and God is across the room like "Are you done now? Let's get to the heart of this and start working."



armydude -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 8:49:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: themaestro

God is our father yes but he is also a big boy and can take out angry words. He would rather we be real than lukewarm with fake flowery words. Read the Psalms. David sounded very angry and confused at times and he was a man after God's own heart. If we cannot get out our frustrations and vent we will explode. Once I have yelled screamed and yes even cussed sometimes I do feel better and God is across the room like "Are you done now? Let's get to the heart of this and start working."
I can see this. But do you honestly think your yelling, screaming, and cussing pleased Him?

God is not a "big boy". He's the King of Kings, our Creator, and He is holy. He deserves our respect. Please point out something that says that respect=lukewarm prayers. If you can, I'll consider your perspective.



themaestro -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 9:04:36 AM)

In Revelation he says he would prefer us hot or cold not lukewarm. If we are feeling pretty down one day and we just say Hi God no problems today, we would be lying. Yes he is the King of Kings that is why he can take creation's feeble little screams. Like I said if you really study the Life of David he really blasts God in some of the Psalms as well as sounding very depressed at times and God being God still loved him. If we are supposed to play the church mask game with God then the example of the Psalms would be all nice sweet little platitudes.



armydude -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 9:08:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: themaestro

In Revelation he says he would prefer us hot or cold not lukewarm. If we are feeling pretty down one day and we just say Hi God no problems today, we would be lying. Yes he is the King of Kings that is why he can take creation's feeble little screams. Like I said if you really study the Life of David he really blasts God in some of the Psalms as well as sounding very depressed at times and God being God still loved him. If we are supposed to play the church mask game with God then the example of the Psalms would be all nice sweet little platitudes.
Once again you're not answering my question. I agree God can take it. But is it right? Shouldn't we be doing what's right?

And I certainly do hope you're not implying that I am not studying. That would be incorrect. I know that David said some things that are simply amazing when I look at the Psalms. But even though God still loved him, were these things pleasing to Him? God loves us sometimes in spite of our actions. To say "David did this, and God still loved him," really doesn't convince me. God loved David in spite of these things, not because of them.



themaestro -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 9:24:58 AM)

To me is is more pleasing when my kids are honest with me and tell me when they are upset instead of lying and saying everything is fine. If they put on the happy face and say everything is peachy keen then I cannot start to help them. Was God pleased when Jesus stormed the temple turning everything upside down kicking and taking names? He was also smacking behinds with a whip. Does not sound like a happy camper. Where does it say that in order to be a Christian we should always act like we are on Prozac?



benelchi -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 9:27:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude

quote:

ORIGINAL: themaestro

In Revelation he says he would prefer us hot or cold not lukewarm. If we are feeling pretty down one day and we just say Hi God no problems today, we would be lying. Yes he is the King of Kings that is why he can take creation's feeble little screams. Like I said if you really study the Life of David he really blasts God in some of the Psalms as well as sounding very depressed at times and God being God still loved him. If we are supposed to play the church mask game with God then the example of the Psalms would be all nice sweet little platitudes.
Once again you're not answering my question. I agree God can take it. But is it right? Shouldn't we be doing what's right?

And I certainly do hope you're not implying that I am not studying. That would be incorrect. I know that David said some things that are simply amazing when I look at the Psalms. But even though God still loved him, were these things pleasing to Him? God loves us sometimes in spite of our actions. To say "David did this, and God still loved him," really doesn't convince me. God loved David in spite of these things, not because of them.



If it is done in the way that David did it in the Psalms, then Yes I believe that God wants us to pour out our hearts to him in this way; we may be feeling the way we do because of the sinful choices we have made that did not please God, but that doesn't mean that sharing our heart with God also displeases him. If it is done as Job's friends did then NO we should never approach God in that way.



themaestro -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 9:32:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

quote:

ORIGINAL: armydude

quote:

ORIGINAL: themaestro

In Revelation he says he would prefer us hot or cold not lukewarm. If we are feeling pretty down one day and we just say Hi God no problems today, we would be lying. Yes he is the King of Kings that is why he can take creation's feeble little screams. Like I said if you really study the Life of David he really blasts God in some of the Psalms as well as sounding very depressed at times and God being God still loved him. If we are supposed to play the church mask game with God then the example of the Psalms would be all nice sweet little platitudes.
Once again you're not answering my question. I agree God can take it. But is it right? Shouldn't we be doing what's right?

And I certainly do hope you're not implying that I am not studying. That would be incorrect. I know that David said some things that are simply amazing when I look at the Psalms. But even though God still loved him, were these things pleasing to Him? God loves us sometimes in spite of our actions. To say "David did this, and God still loved him," really doesn't convince me. God loved David in spite of these things, not because of them.



If it is done in the way that David did it in the Psalms, then Yes I believe that God wants us to pour out our hearts to him in this way; we may be feeling the way we do because of the sinful choices we have made that did not please God, but that doesn't mean that sharing our heart with God also displeases him. If it is done as Job's friends did then NO we should never approach God in that way.



perfect



benelchi -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 9:33:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: themaestro

To me is is more pleasing when my kids are honest with me and tell me when they are upset instead of lying and saying everything is fine. If they put on the happy face and say everything is peachy keen then I cannot start to help them. Was God pleased when Jesus stormed the temple turning everything upside down kicking and taking names? He was also smacking behinds with a whip. Does not sound like a happy camper. Where does it say that in order to be a Christian we should always act like we are on Prozac?


Jesus storming the temple was an entirely different situation. When David approached God the way he did, he did so out of his ignorance and lack of understand about God at that moment in his life. In some of the cases we know of the sin in David's life that led to his feeling distant from God. When Jesus stormed the temple, he was doing that with a complete understanding of what he was doing and out of obedience.



armydude -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 9:36:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: themaestro

To me is is more pleasing when my kids are honest with me and tell me when they are upset instead of lying and saying everything is fine. If they put on the happy face and say everything is peachy keen then I cannot start to help them.
I tell people all the time that I'd rather they be honest with me. I can understand where you come from there. If my children are upset, chances are I already know it, so them lying about it doesn't make sense. But you're talking about honesty, while I'm talking about a person losing his temper. There's a big difference. You can be honest and say to God, "I don't understand," or, "I don't like this," without losing your reverence for Him. Honesty is one thing. Irreverence is something else.
quote:

Was God pleased when Jesus stormed the temple turning everything upside down kicking and taking names? He was also smacking behinds with a whip. Does not sound like a happy camper. Where does it say that in order to be a Christian we should always act like we are on Prozac?
Apples and oranges. Just to clarify, I am talking about prayers to our Heavenly Father, this part of your post is something else. Jesus had seen enough of the leaders trying to keep people from worship and cheat the people in His house. And He did something about it. That's a different scenario entirely.
I'm not talking about acting like you're on Prozac. I'm talking about a reverence for your Creator.



Kath -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 4:45:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: themaestro

To me is is more pleasing when my kids are honest with me and tell me when they are upset instead of lying and saying everything is fine. If they put on the happy face and say everything is peachy keen then I cannot start to help them.



Of course I'd like my kids to tell me when they are upset but that doesn't mean they need to yell, rant, cuss and blame me for their problem.

you really would let your kids do that? You don't see that as disrespect?



themaestro -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 6:49:01 PM)

Little lady you are reading way too much into what I said. One time I had a really bad few months. There was a job loss, money troubles, kid troubles and legal troubles. I basically had a heart to heart with God. I have never blamed him but I did ask questions. There was yelling, crying, a couple of choice words, and after I got it all out of my system i felt the peace that passes understanding. Yes He held me and I cried. No, things did not get better right away but I felt better. I never said my kids blame me for their problems but they have com to me in tears with the why and what questions. After they have vented then we can rationally discuss what is going on in their life. God is not going to wilt if we have an animated talk with him. David had his "discussions", Job had his and others. they are still considered heroes of the faith. No one can ever tell me they have never cried out to God or always been perfectly "mature and composed" when talking to him. David was so undignified in his worship that his wife thought he was drunk. Why does the modern church have to act like they are on prozac to be considered proper Christians? Paul Coughlin's No More Christian Nice Guy is a good text to shatter the myth of the prim and proper Christian. http://www.christianniceguy.com/



armydude -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 7:11:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: themaestro

Little lady you are reading way too much into what I said.
[8|]
quote:

One time I had a really bad few months. There was a job loss, money troubles, kid troubles and legal troubles. I basically had a heart to heart with God. I have never blamed him but I did ask questions. There was yelling, crying, a couple of choice words, and after I got it all out of my system i felt the peace that passes understanding. Yes He held me and I cried. No, things did not get better right away but I felt better.
You felt better, but was that an indication of God's approval? I don't think so.
I'm going to keep asking the question until I get an answer. Does this kind of behavior please God?
That's the core issue. I don't even care about the "is it acceptable" question. What I care about is what pleases God. And my endeavor is for my prayers (even in bad times) to reflect that.



themaestro -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 7:16:23 PM)

I will reverse and ask you where does it displease God and what verse supports it?



armydude -> RE: Not so saintly prayers to God? Anyone? (4/20/2008 7:16:45 PM)

I am addressing this seperately on purpose.
quote:

God is not going to wilt if we have an animated talk with him. David had his "discussions", Job had his and others. they are still considered heroes of the faith.
They were heroes of the faith, but not because they talked this way to God. So what does that have to do with the issue at hand?
quote:

No one can ever tell me they have never cried out to God or always been perfectly "mature and composed" when talking to him.
You are correct. I have cried out to God, and I have said things that shame me now, even years later. Is it acceptable to say these things? I don't know. Is it right? No. It is right to remember that He is God, and I am not. Reverence and "being real" are not mutually exclusive.



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