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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/15/2008 10:43:30 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 292
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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Pray.
Be faithful.
Talk to the leaders (schedulers) and bring your concern before them.
remember worship is about God, not humans.
G
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The Will of God never takes you to where the Grace of God will not protect you
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 12:22:05 AM
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crankius
Posts: 4192
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If your husband and you are serious about wanting to work something else out, maybe you could request a meeting with the person in charge of music and have a heart-to-heart, with grace and truth. You could explain that the talent in the church is being spread thin with three groups, and perhaps a different arrangement of the talent would help each person to be able to minister with music gifts in a more effective manner.
Would such a meeting be possible? My advice is to handle it directly and not get involved in any discussions with others regarding how bad the situation is.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
IS CHURCH YOUR IDOL?
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 1:37:33 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1287
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You should speak with whomever is in charge of the music ministry - present your concerns and let them speak to the ones doing the scheduling. The best way for this to end up is to have talent and leadership experience spread equally over the different bands (of which there should probably only be two, with, perhaps, some alternate musicians). The band who is scheduled to play the following week gets priority in using the church space to rehearse. If the other band chooses to rehearse that week anyways, they can use somebody's house or rent a rehearsal facility, just like every other band in the country.
-Dan.
_____________________________
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 5:11:04 AM
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BibleL7
Posts: 441
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I dont belong to nor have I ever been on a worship team as you have but figured I would put in a pennies worth anyway.
First WORSHIP is not about people being good together or entertaining. Worship is about the congregation joining together and singing praises to the LORD it should first and foremost be about HIM. Second it should be TO Him. Third it should be FOR Him. And in my opinion it should never be for the worship team and never be about entertaining the congregation. Also in my opinion worship teams are there to help the rest of the congregation to sing. Songs should be congregational meaning the whole of the congregation should be included in the singing. It should never be for the purpose of showing off a good singer or musician's giftedness.
<steps down off soap box> Perhaps if teams B and C have a worship leader who can lead the congregation in singing and encourage the congregation to sing loud and praise the Lord nobody will be able to hear any of the not so talented singers. And I know that many of those not so talented singers as some call them are the ones that the Lord appreciates the most cause they sing loud with everything they have because they feel that pleases the Lord and they are there to please Him. It is totally amazing to have an assembly worshiping the Lord with all they have. Of course when I was a worship leader there was not band or team it was just me leading the whole assembly in song and in tune or not none cared for it was not about that. I will say however that most of the time that there were more than 15 people in the assembly almost half were not regular for that was when it was at a homeless shelter mixed with believers and unbelievers I would guess but it was totally amazing.
You say your musicians are mostly good so just get one or two on each team to lead worship and get the people involved. If team A is about being better then talk to team B and team C about leading worship. If teams B & C get the Congregation singing loud with joy then team A will have no choice but to follow or be seen as entertainers.
Just the opinion of a small town preacher
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 5:37:19 AM
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BibleL7
Posts: 441
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BTW a good inspirational song to start with would be the following you should be able to find the music in most hymnals;
'I Love You Lord, and I lift my voice, to worship You, Oh my soul rejoice
Take joy my King in what You hear may it be a sweet, sweet sound in Your ear.'
Can be very inspirational after a prayer to the Lord to be enthroned in our praise.
Just the opinion of a small town preacher
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 6:14:55 AM
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Eliana
Posts: 676
Joined: 7/27/2005
From: Norway
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What a sad situation -- I can imagine your frustration.
Crankius and GregandJenny have given some excellent advice. Is it possible for you to take these steps? Perhaps explain to the leaders that groups B and C need some stronger vocalists to help support the others. Emphasise the practical and logistical aspects of the problem when you talk to them. Their response should give you a better idea of how to move forward.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 1:21:07 PM
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lpt
Posts: 159
Joined: 6/8/2006
From: Colorado Springs
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quote:
ORIGINAL: funny_girl
Reality is that your job is to submit to this arrangement and you don't like it? Do you have a worship pastor that is overseeing this arrangement? Who set this plan into action? If you're having problems with it, go and talk to that person.
Excellent points. I'm interested to hear Zhi's reply.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 1:56:13 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 874
Joined: 7/31/2007
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quote:
Reality is that your job is to submit to this arrangement and you don't like it?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
quote:
Do you have a worship pastor that is overseeing this arrangement?
No. This is a very small church, we only got an actual pastor a little over 8 months ago.
quote:
Who set this plan into action?
It was set into action after a discussion in which all people who wished to be involved in the worship team and the pastor were present. Obviously the current structure was not what was agreed upon. Granted we didn't set up a whole lot of organizational stuff at that point, mostly because we didn't expect people to be so unfair about it. It doesn't occur to you from the get-go that you would need to make rules like "no stealing my good team members" and "if you know a person can't sing and you refuse to let them sing with you, don't subsequently pawn them off on us and take our singer".
quote:
If you're having problems with it, go and talk to that person.
I'm really just not sure what to say. I don't want to go in all accusatory even if they ARE doing this on purpose. It's compounded by the fact that my husband's job situation is in serious question at the moment and we might be moving in the next few months anyway, so I'm not sure if it's worth the tears. I've had one other member of our worship team vent to me basically what I told you (with no prompting whatsoever by me, by the way, I had just called to try to schedule a practice and she pretty much went off).
I'm not really a very confrontational person in real life. I mostly remain quiet and do what is asked of me. Usually that works really well. With this issue... not so much.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 2:19:20 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 1738
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From: Saturn
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A very similar situation is why my church board voted to dump the worship teams and go back to one large choir with an orchestra.
Everybody gets to sing, good ones drown out bad ones, all muscians get to play, not just drummers and guitarists, and if someone is working, it does not do too much damage. Good decision.
_____________________________
If the witch at Endor were alive today, I wonder if she would be a road side fortune teller, or an
"extreme prophetess " in an emotion based signs-and-wonders church.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 2:45:29 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4192
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zhi
I don't want to go in all accusatory even if they ARE doing this on purpose.
You certainly don't have to be accusatory. Simply discussing the situation as it sits in reality is all that is needed. And since your husband is so involved as a leader, I think he should take the lead in discussing solutions with the person in charge.
I personally like Bluestone's suggestion. Your church may just be too small to keep three active/healthy teams going. Another good aspect: if everyone is combined, and a couple people have to miss a day here or there, it's no big deal.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
IS CHURCH YOUR IDOL?
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 2:52:56 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 1738
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From: Saturn
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We just did not have enough people to do it right, and give everyone a break. The worhship leader's group had the cream of the crop, the other two got the leftover people. It WAS on purpose at my church.
Also, we had people who play instruments such as cello and flute, who were not able to use their gifts in the praise team genre of music.
_____________________________
If the witch at Endor were alive today, I wonder if she would be a road side fortune teller, or an
"extreme prophetess " in an emotion based signs-and-wonders church.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 4:55:31 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 874
Joined: 7/31/2007
Status: online
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Actually, we suggested that all groups be merged and just have one person lead every time and maybe occassionally switch out a person or two, and have mass practices. It was shot down by the leaders of group A. Our church really isn't big enough to have an orchestra or choir. I'd be fine with not playing at all, personally.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 5:04:48 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4192
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Are the leaders of group A in charge of the church?
It seriously sounds like there needs to be a sit-down between all the leaders and the pastor.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
IS CHURCH YOUR IDOL?
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 5:19:41 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 874
Joined: 7/31/2007
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Nope, they're not.
I'm really not sure how to initiate a sit-down. *sigh* I've managed to get through 3 other church worship teams (in the places we've lived in the past), numerous costume and banner sewing projects for churches, building church websites, and literally building a church, without ever having to deal with this sort of thing.
Maybe hubby and I should talk to the leader of group C first, see if he feels this way too. He's a good friend, we fix his computer a lot. ;)
Oh, and to a previous comment... hubby and I pretty much co-lead our group. He sings lead but I'm the one with all the music training so I try to keep everyone on track. ;)
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 5:32:01 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4192
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Be very careful discussing with the other leader. These things can turn out badly, especially if one leader feels ganged up on.
It is always better to handle things directly and openly.
BTW, I've been in a church before with three music teams--hubby was the music leader. I've seen this kind of thing before.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
IS CHURCH YOUR IDOL?
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 10:38:39 PM
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funny_girl
Posts: 779
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zhi, I know it sounds scary and confrontational, but that's what growing pains are all about. You're willing to talk to everyone else about this except the person you really need to talk to. Don't be afraid. It's not a confrontation. You need to bring your concerns to your pastor so he can help you. Even if you do move in 3 months, it will be an asset to your pastor to know these things. God's strength is shown in our weaknesses.
_____________________________
"...bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as imposters; known yet regarded as unknown...poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything." II Corinthians 6:8-10
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/16/2008 10:54:23 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4192
Joined: 4/12/2005
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There are times when conflict has to be handled. For example, if the widows hadn't come forward in Acts 6 to discuss the unfair distribution of funds, then deacons wouldn't have been appointed to tend to their needs.
In a healthy church, such issues are discussed in a friendly manner looking towards Biblical solutions that best serve the Body of Christ.
Having a sit-down prevents gossip and allows everyone to openly discuss the issues.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
IS CHURCH YOUR IDOL?
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 8:33:58 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 1738
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: Saturn
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Talk to your pastor. Sometimes pastors are the last to know, and by then the situation has blown up altogether.
_____________________________
If the witch at Endor were alive today, I wonder if she would be a road side fortune teller, or an
"extreme prophetess " in an emotion based signs-and-wonders church.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 9:54:54 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1693
Joined: 5/23/2006
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It's better to cut down the numbers to three or four and have them leading worship in unity rather than having many and having discord. Worship is a very high calling and if there is discord among those leading it isn't a pleasant offering to God.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 12:30:23 PM
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elastic
Posts: 2795
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: NYC
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our church pretty much has the star mentality thing handled...it's important that first and foremost, everyone be a servant. one sunday, i might be leading the congregation in singing, the next sunday, i might be handing out programs, or greeting people at the door, or taking up the offering, or serving lunch backstage to that particular week's song leaders. there is no room for rockstars on our stage. everyone is there to serve, no matter what their role is. i think it has really, really helped weed out the worship leaders. if you are not willing to be the elevator operator, or to do the manual behind the scenes work, then you are not going to be a worship leader.
_____________________________
"You are so right elastic" ~Qtman
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 1:40:03 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4192
Joined: 4/12/2005
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elastic,
Love your post. When my husband was music coordinator at a previous church, that was what he tried to create. However, there were too many people who didn't want to do it that way.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
IS CHURCH YOUR IDOL?
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 1:41:43 PM
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funny_girl
Posts: 779
Status: offline
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elastic,
I can appreciate your comment to a point. I think we need to keep a servants heart, not think more highly of ourselves then we ought and if that's what it takes great but, if you've already paid the price for your position and there are others that are able to do that then it will frustrate a seasoned leader. I've spent my time mowing the church grass, making bulletins, preparing lessons and mopping overflowed toilets after worship during the sermon so that our guests didn't know there was a problem.
_____________________________
"...bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as imposters; known yet regarded as unknown...poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything." II Corinthians 6:8-10
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 1:43:11 PM
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funny_girl
Posts: 779
Status: offline
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Me, the worship leader/pastor's wife was sopping up toilet water with a towel in her dress during the message. Now, just because I don't have to clean the bathrooms now, you want me to take turns being the janitor when that's a job taken? I appreciate so much the janitor's job. Everyone needs to do their part to make things work. The janitor isn't more important than I nor am I more important than the janitor. I think it’s an individual deal. I have witnessed what happens to the one with a ‘star mentality’. They become easily frustrated and usually aren’t able to keep their friends.
God will not share His glory with any man.
_____________________________
"...bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as imposters; known yet regarded as unknown...poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything." II Corinthians 6:8-10
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