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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 5:54:48 PM
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bluestone
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From: Saturn
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Is team "A" trying to go professional, get a recording contract? Sounds like it.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 6:10:36 PM
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Zhi
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I don't know. I don't think so. If they were surely they would be playing every sunday, and probably not at our tiny church in the middle of nowhere. We suggested that they should play every sunday or at least lead every sunday and they didn't want to. (Again, I really don't care if I play or not. I would be perfectly happy sitting in the audience every single sunday, I only play because the worship teams said they needed me. Prior to the team-creation thing, I only played when I was called up out of desperation because the usual piano player was out of town.)
< Message edited by Zhi -- 4/17/2008 6:17:04 PM >
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 7:32:23 PM
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GregandJenny
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From: Near Seattle Washington
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It seems to me that there is a lack of leadership in this whole thing.
1. People should be signed up or have volunteered for a team.
2. They should be required to attend the rehearsal to perform on the Worship team. If there are scheduling conflicts (which do happen) they have to make a choice and live with that choice.
3. Once a person is on or has been assigned that person should make a commitment to that team. If they cannot follow she leadership of that team or cannot make the rehearsals for that team (the one they committed to) they shouldn't be able to drop that group to join another one.
Somewhere in all of this people have lost the meaning of commitment, and sacrifice, which i believe is required in any ministry. People will do what the leadership will allow them to do. Some boundaries and expectatins need to be set.
G
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 8:05:26 PM
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TMeeks
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I loved it when my gandchildren were into Thomas The Train because the videos and music were great. They've outgrown Thomas; but, we hang on to one of the most famous of it's sayings. Every time something would get fouled up Mr Topham Hat would chide them with, "You have caused confusion and delay!"
I see FAR too much confusion and delay regarding the setup for your groups. It's just not organized in an efficient way to provide the best quality worship experience for the congregation. First, the idea of matching mix & match with musicians borders on the ludicrous. Playing demands synergy and it's impossible to achieve in this situation when a person NOT in a group determines the makeup of the group.
But, to solve this one is going to take presenting the RIGHT reason and the RIGHT solution when the topic is first brought up. So, you are going to have to do your homework by coming up with a workable justification for changing the current structure and a plan that works.
The justification, of course, must be providing the highest quality worship experience for the parishioners. Part of the solution is probably going to be fixed groups having primary and backup musicians with standards regarding practice times, etc. The idea is quality.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 10:22:17 PM
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Zhi
Posts: 870
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quote:
2. They should be required to attend the rehearsal to perform on the Worship team. If there are scheduling conflicts (which do happen) they have to make a choice and live with that choice.
We get the people we get, and we have to work around their schedules.
quote:
3. Once a person is on or has been assigned that person should make a commitment to that team. If they cannot follow she leadership of that team or cannot make the rehearsals for that team (the one they committed to) they shouldn't be able to drop that group to join another one.
I think you misunderstood this... it's not the people who are dropping the group. The schedulers are reassigning them to their team if they have talent, and if people ask to be on their team who do not have talent, they send them to our team. Most recently, they told a would-be vocalist who has some tone issues that they had no room. They then assigned her to our team, and took our good vocalist for their team because they did have room, they just apparently didn't want that vocalist.
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 10:41:37 PM
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bluestone
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From: Saturn
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See, this situation needs to be brought to the attention of the Pastor and possibly the church board. Worship leaders are not free to wheel and deal they like, they are under the authority of others. This is what happens when a music department is acting separately from the church as a whole.
_____________________________
If the witch at Endor were alive today, I wonder if she would be a road side fortune teller, or an
"extreme prophetess " in an emotion based signs-and-wonders church.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 11:15:06 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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Please do not be frustrated. You are playing for God. It is not about who sounds better or not. Believe me, I've been to some churches with worship that would almost send you to heaven right on the spot, it was so professional and good. Unfortunately, other things lacked--like the sincerity of the parishners and the sunday message. If you are interested in something that sounds professional and putting on a GREAT SHOW, then perhaps that is what the pursuit should be--not worship in a gathering of believers. If you really cannot abide putting on a less than stellar performance for your church, and it really bugs you, step down. There is no reason to put oneself through such stresses over something that should be done voluntarily and from the heart anyway.
I hope everything works out for you. 
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/17/2008 11:45:36 PM
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GregandJenny
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quote:
We get the people we get, and we have to work around their schedules.
quote:
Wow.
Anyways I would bring this before the Pastor.
G
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/18/2008 7:52:54 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
See, this situation needs to be brought to the attention of the Pastor and possibly the church board. Agreed. What I read makes me think someone on the schedule group is putting together their own dream team. That is not a godly thing. Having been in various worship bands since 1971, I can tell you there is no bigger repository of egos and shameless self promotion than in the performing arts and music certainly has its share.
Talk to the pastor. Speak to the board members and ask for time to present your case during an upcoming meeting. They have the say-so and the responsibility to make this all work correctly. Since it has only been 8 months, there is not a years or decades old tradition that is much more difficult to change. New approaches should be re-evaluated from time to time to see what works and what does not work and this sounds like a good opportunity to do just that.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/18/2008 11:43:48 AM
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sisrev
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I feel you pain, Zhi--I have been on what amounted to the "A" team, the "B" team, and the "C" team, and it can be frustrating, to say the least.
For myself, I had to step down completely for a while. Although I was singing, I was so distracted by the politics that I was not worshiping, and my heart was not where it should have been. Once I stepped down from the P&W team, I found I could worship more freely from the pew, because I was not concerned with what was happening on the platform, or who was singing back-up, or who was scheduled for Sunday mornings every week and never on Wednesday night, etc. Eventually I did step back up--by that time, some of the leadership had changed and things began to run more smoothly.
I am in a different area of ministry today, but I still miss my days of singing P&W--when it flows, it flows, and there is no better wave to ride than when it all works and everyone's heart is in the right place.
Unfortunately, I think your problem is a heart issue, and not a talent issue---it sounds as though those who are doing the scheduling need to have a check-up and get their heart back in the right place, they seem to be all about making themselves look/sound good, at the expense of the other teams.
< Message edited by sisrev -- 4/18/2008 4:19:14 PM >
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/21/2008 3:55:32 PM
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Tomok
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I can concur with your utter frustration. Refer to my post on Funny-girl's post of Worship Leaders today. I spent 10 years trying to sort it out and even the pastor didn't want to sort it - it was left to the worship leader - who for whatever reason - decided to leave me out and promote those with less experience and less ability. Don't wait 10 years - sort it out now!!
God bless you for being so open!
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/24/2008 1:28:47 PM
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redeemedsaint
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I will post since I am on a worship team. We have two teams, 1 and 2 and we alternate every other week in leading worship. Each group is unique and different and we don't compare ourselves to another group and so on. We don't have the problems that you describe, but I've had an attitude of I wish people would learn to be on time or I wish they would hurry up and get set up. It wastes a lot of time. I say this to myself and not out loud. I just sit back and keep my mouth shut and if I have to, I leave the room for a moment to collect my thoughts then come back. Pray about this and God may reveal some things to you. Hope this helps.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/24/2008 8:06:13 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1289
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quote:
ORIGINAL: redeemedsaint
I will post since I am on a worship team. We have two teams, 1 and 2 and we alternate every other week in leading worship. Each group is unique and different and we don't compare ourselves to another group and so on. We don't have the problems that you describe, but I've had an attitude of I wish people would learn to be on time or I wish they would hurry up and get set up. It wastes a lot of time. I say this to myself and not out loud. I just sit back and keep my mouth shut and if I have to, I leave the room for a moment to collect my thoughts then come back. Pray about this and God may reveal some things to you. Hope this helps.
I've found that churches, particularly small churches, are not good places to learn what it takes to really refine a production. Few people have any professional production experience (e.g. tv, radio, live sound); for most people, playing in the church band is a light hobby, not something they take too seriously. It can be frustrating if you are a professional or at least take it seriously and are constantly running up against hurdles because noone else cares to try.
-Dan.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/24/2008 11:32:28 PM
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pbaribeault
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I'm thinking that Churches, particularly small Churches, are not really appropriate places to be overly concerned with what it takes to really refine a production.
Few people have any professional production experience, and for most people playing in the Church band is about worshiping God in their hearts, using their musical skill to catch up others as best they are able. They consider their relationship with God to be the most serious thing of all.
It can be frustrating, if you are finding that God-space, or at least trying to conduct actual worship and you are constantly running up against hurdles because some professional is overly focused on the production values.
I believe that a refined musical production that is billed as a worship experience can't help but become an impediment to the average person coming to a deep understanding of ongoing worship in their lifestyle.
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/25/2008 12:13:54 AM
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stimulus
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Zhi,
There's only one way I can see to fix this, and it's what others have suggested - talk to the schedulers.
I get that you don't like confrontation. A lot of people don't. We think of it as such a negative thing, telling someone else what they are doing wrong.
So don't do that. Don't tell them what they are doing wrong. Instead, talk WITH them about how to solve the problem of inconsistent quality. Maybe something like this would work:
quote:
"We've talked several times lately at our meetings about quality, and I do think we need to address the problem. The teams aren't performing at similar levels, and everyone knows it. I've got some ideas on how we can address that so our church can have consistently good music. Currently, Team A has consistent practices with the same group of people, and I think it's a huge part of why they are so good. Our other teams haven't been able to have consistent practices with the same people, and we need that in order to improve.
Yet, Teams B and C haven't been able to practice consistently because of the variety in schedules. So I think I have a way we can all get consistent practice while accommodating a number of schedules and people.
Team A will continue practicing on Night A. Team B will practice on Night B. Team C practices on Night C. (My guess is that you could do something like Team A practices every Tuesday and leads worship twice a month, Team B practices every other Thursday and leads worship once a month, Team C practices every other Saturday and leads worship once a month.)
People can come and practice with any team, but when it comes to choosing who will actually play\sing for a service, preference will be given to those who are consistent in attending their team's rehearsals. If they can't be consistent in attending practices, they can fill in for others when needed or when we work them in.
I think having consistent practices with pretty much the same people every practice is what our teams need to do in order to improve. What do you think of this idea? Do you have other ideas that would let the other teams get the practice they need to improve?"
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RE: Worship team frustration - 4/26/2008 9:22:40 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1289
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
I'm thinking that Churches, particularly small Churches, are not really appropriate places to be overly concerned with what it takes to really refine a production.
I don't think I explained myself too well. To clarify a bit, by "refining the production" I wasn't necessarily referring to putting on a big slick show, but rather to just performing a particular task well, be it playing guitar or running a projector.
That said, I don't disagree with you - at least in theory. In practice, I don't think I've ever seen a small church where the music and overall presentation was done so professionally that I (or anybody else) found it distracting (but yes, I have seen that at large churches). I have been to several, however, where it was obvious that the band needed a lot more time practicing, and that was distracting.
I'm not arguing for Nashville-A-list musical ability or Joel Osteen production standards, just basic competence and skill and an ongoing desire to learn and improve. If you're up there, ostensibly doing something for God, do your best.
-Dan.
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