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What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/16/2008 3:51:38 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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Sorry to disappoint anyone, but I'm not actually asking the question above... because I believe I have an answer. It seems very interesting to me that actual city of "Berea" and by extension, its people, are only mentioned three times in two chapters of Acts, and yet it is the main defense for the somewhat destructive practice of what some call "heresy hunting". To that end, I feel I must explain my understanding of correct doctrine regarding this small piece of scripture.quote:
Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men. Acts 17:10-12 Okay, the first thing in understanding doctrine is to decide what the passage is actually talking about. The context here is that Paul and Silas had basically just started a riot in Thessalonica because many people were converted in the teaching of the Gospel. According to the author of Acts, the riot started because the Jews who did not believe the words of Paul became jealous of all the converts to Paul's religion. So those Jews began a riot. The brethren who had just been converted are the ones who sent Paul and Silas away to Berea... specifically to escape the persecution in Thessalonica.
Now the Bereans themselves are called being "more fair-minded" according to the NKJV and "more noble" according to the KJV than those at Thessalonica. We must ask why this term is applied. I believe the answer is a simple one. They were more fair-minded because "they recieved the word with all readiness". They did not riot or feel threatened, but they were open to hearing the message presented to them by Paul.
They searched the scriptures. This is important to note because they didn't just take whatever they heard and tuck it away in their doctrinal cabinets to be used later. However, they were searching the scripture to see if these things they were being taught were true. It was not done cynically in a "thou must prove thyself" attitude of haughtiness, but it was an attitude of "this is new...I wonder if it says what they say it does". The searching was not from a place of trying to disprove Paul, but rather to see if the Scripture proved his words. On the one hand, it would seem to be a small difference in wording, but in reality that makes a huge difference in "searching the scriptures".
The thing that I find interesting about the mentioning of the Bereans is that these were Jews, checking the Old Testament to see if what Paul was telling them was truth. This was not Paul delivering new forms of doctrine to an already established church, but this was Paul preaching to people of a different faith altogether. So not only can we establish that it should be possible to lead someone to the Gospel knowledge of Jesus Christ through the Old Testament alone, but that the Bereans did not feel a need to run off and start a riot because of their findings that Paul was correct. For all of our doctrinal understandings related to Berea, it is the least mentioned topic in the Bible. The only other time the city is mentioned is when Luke gives account in Acts 20 of who was traveling with Paul. Perhaps we focus too much on the Scotch Pine and miss the forrest that tree is in?
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/16/2008 3:54:47 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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Note to mods.......... this will be making it's way on to my blog tomorrow (4/17).
Adam
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/16/2008 11:39:02 AM
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Lapidoth
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A nice summation.
I think if we understood what being a Berean as we call it means,
we would have a lot less arguing over "points" of doctrine, or opinions.
Like trying to resolve seemingly contradictions in the gospels.
We can go back to the Torah as the Bereans did and verify what is
really being said in the NT. But we use the NT in a reverse fashion
to disprove the OT or do away with it. Yet, we all carry both to church.
And quote from both.
Everything Paul preached and taught was from the Torah.
It could be verified by the Torah. Everything Jesus (Yeshua) preached
and taught was from the Torah. It could be verified by the Torah.
"fulfilling" Torah [rightly interpreting it] was not doing away with it.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/16/2008 2:01:32 PM
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rcjames
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I take a little more of a simplistic view of the intentions of Luke when he wrote about the Bereans checking Scripture to see if what was taught tp them was true.
I think the passage is telling us to check Scripture to see if what is taught to us is true.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/16/2008 9:12:13 PM
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Papa-san
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I absolutely agree with RC. I don't think that there are many places in all of scripture that offer such concise and clear instruction which is reinforced through the example of these followers...
If somebody says that a thing is scripturally sound, we are to check it against the written word to see if it is true or false. It's the litmus test, pure and simple.
Jesus was always bringing people back to scripture. It is pretty obvious that He considered it to be vital to our faith. Then, once the Jews rejected Him, His word needed to be completed. So He inspired the rest of it... and we are to check doctrine against it to see if it is true or false.
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"Discernment demands that we should hold biblical convictions with the most fervent tenacity" John MacArthur
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/17/2008 4:15:04 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
I take a little more of a simplistic view of the intentions of Luke when he wrote about the Bereans checking Scripture to see if what was taught tp them was true.
I think the passage is telling us to check Scripture to see if what is taught to us is true To this point, I have not said anything about the intentions of Luke. All I have done is present the Biblical pasage that tells us why the Bereans were important. The main point is that we are to search to see if what was taught to us was true... not to specifically attempt to disprove it. That means Paul says that the Torah teaches (A), and the Bereans looked it up to see if the Torah did indeed say (A). They didn't tell Paul, "But the Torah says (b) and (c) so (A) must be false." It sounds like a small difference, but it really is anything but.quote:
Jesus was always bringing people back to scripture. It is pretty obvious that He considered it to be vital to our faith. Then, once the Jews rejected Him, His word needed to be completed. So He inspired the rest of it... and we are to check doctrine against it to see if it is true or false. Agreed that everything must be scripturally sound... However the difference is whether we are checking doctrine to see if it is true, or if we are checking it against the scriptures setting out to prove it false. The main reason for this, IMO, is that if you are setting out to prove something false, you will succeed... not because the doctrine is necessarily unbiblical, but because you throw out any kind of inductive (hence, correct) understanding of what the passage is actually saying.
Example: Guy (A) starts teaching that the Bible endorses suicide and points to the death of Judas as his example. Good little Berean then goes and looks at the death of Judas and finds out that the Bible does not endorse the method of Judas expiration within that passage, so he refuses to believe the doctrine.
Now, compare that to today's "bereans"... Good little Christian throws out Bible verses in a straight up argument, calls guy (A) a heretic and runs around telling everyone and anyone who will listen that Guy (A) is the heretical spawn of Satan. Not the greatest example, but you get the idea that I present hyperbolically.
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/17/2008 7:52:34 AM
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texastweet
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Adam,
That is a great point about the Bereans that is often overlooked. In fact the Thessalonians also prove your point as well. They debated with Paul for three days using scripture and then in fact rejected his teaching. If you only had the OT and Paul said circumcision was of no avail how would one react with a sola mentality?? So actually the Thessalonians should be held up as the "example" of sola scriptura in action. Because they actually rejects Pauls new revelation and they said it didn't agree with their interpritation of torah!
Here is a great article really explaining the passage: Berean
Otis
< Message edited by texastweet -- 4/17/2008 7:59:53 AM >
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/17/2008 12:42:35 PM
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sue244
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So aren't you looking into the scripture to prove that us 'heritic hunters' are wrong?
The Bereans compared what Paul was saying to the scripture to see if it lined up, and it did. But if what someone is saying doesn't line up with Scripture then of course the looking at the passage is going to prove that person wrong. And it is the responsiblity of every Christian to check what is taught against the Bible and if it is wrong to declare that. Jesus, Peter, Paul, John etc. had no problems naming names and pointing out errors.
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"It is a remarkable fact that all the heresies which have arisen in the Christian Church have had a decided tendency to 'dishonor God and to flatter man.'"
Spurgen
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/17/2008 3:54:26 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
Because they actually rejects Pauls new revelation and they said it didn't agree with their interpritation of torah!
The Torah did and does agree with Paul's explanations.
God sought the circumcision of the "heart."
The circumcision of the flesh is more of a land, or, inheritance sign.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/17/2008 4:35:03 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
Because they actually rejects Pauls new revelation and they said it didn't agree with their interpritation of torah!
The Torah did and does agree with Paul's explanations.
God sought the circumcision of the "heart."
The circumcision of the flesh is more of a land, or, inheritance sign.
I would differ the brit melah(circumcission of the flesh) is a sign of identification, symbolizing the brit melah of the heart, just as thge mikvah(baptism of the flesh) is a sign of identification symbolizing the mikvah of the heart.
Thus Paul's teaching not only agrees with Ha Torah, but he is teaching Ha Torah.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/17/2008 5:03:55 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
So aren't you looking into the scripture to prove that us 'heritic hunters' are wrong?
The Bereans compared what Paul was saying to the scripture to see if it lined up, and it did. But if what someone is saying doesn't line up with Scripture then of course the looking at the passage is going to prove that person wrong. And it is the responsiblity of every Christian to check what is taught against the Bible and if it is wrong to declare that. Jesus, Peter, Paul, John etc. had no problems naming names and pointing out errors.
Sue, I'm not even talking about you. I'm talking about what it means to be a Berean. In Thessalonica they did not recieve the word with readiness and they caused a riot. The Bereans DID recieve the word with readiness and searched the scriptures to see if what Paul was telling them was true. The wording is pretty clear what it means to be a Berean, and every time I see the Bereans cited, it is used incorrectly.
Should you desire to discuss heresy hunting itself, I would be pleeeeeaaaaased to do so in another thread.
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/18/2008 7:39:47 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
The searching was not from a place of trying to disprove Paul, but rather to see if the Scripture proved his words.
When we search the Scriptures, we do that to in order to "Prove all things" and "hold fast that which is good". That which is not good is therefore disproved.
That is one side of holding to the truth. The other side is to "reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine" (2 Tim. 4:2). This is in the context of false teachers and false doctrine.
Both aspects are to go hand-in-hand, so using the Bereans as an example of those who diligently search the Scriptures is only one side of holding to the truth.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/18/2008 7:40:49 AM
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Papa-san
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I understand the point you are making, and I agree with it. I guess I was just carrying it out to it's conclusion. If one is looking at scripture to see if what another person says 'lines up' with scripture, (s)he is acting in the same manner as the Bereans.
There is no mention of where they found something that didn't line up. The logical next step would then be to reject that teaching. They didn't go to scripture with the intention of disproving something, nor do I. I go to scripture to see if what was taught lines up. When it doesn't line up, I must then reject it. It wasn't my intent, but ended up being the result.
_____________________________
"Discernment demands that we should hold biblical convictions with the most fervent tenacity" John MacArthur
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/18/2008 7:47:14 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
This was not Paul delivering new forms of doctrine to an already established church, but this was Paul preaching to people of a different faith altogether.
Paul generally went to the Jewish synagogues to proclaim the Gospel. This was not preaching to a different faith, since the Gospel was already embedded in the OT. Paul preached Christ while showing that the OT Scriptures were fulfilled by Him. So did Peter. So did Philip.
At that time the written Word of God was the Hebrew Bible. Today we have the entire Bible, and the NT constantly makes reference to the OT.
As someone has said, the OT is the Gospel enfolded, while the NT is the Gospel unfolded.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/18/2008 7:49:20 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
I go to scripture to see if what was taught lines up. When it doesn't line up, I must then reject it. It wasn't my intent, but ended up being the result.
Precisely. Therefore claiming that the word Berean is misused is incorrect.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/18/2008 9:46:43 AM
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rcjames
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It works both ways; to prove something someone has said, and to disprove something someone has said.
Folks come to me all the time with stuff they have heard from someone that they are confused about. They may have heard about it on the radio, TV, Internet, coffee shop, or just visiting. They have heard something that is foriegn to their basic teachings. What to do.
Be like the Bereans and go to Scripture to either prove or disprove what ever the person has heard. I never just tell them this or that; I show them in Scripture.
Going to Scripture to prove something is a good thing.
Going to Scriptures to disprove something is a good thing.
Going to Scripture is a good thing period.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/19/2008 7:48:34 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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The majority of the time I see the word "Berean" used, it is used in the context of an argument where one person says "This is pointless because we are getting nowhere..." and the other person retorts with "we must be good Bereans". That is using the term incorrectly. First off, none of us are from Berea, so we can't be Bereans in the first place. Secondly, sitting in a room and arguing about how somebody is a heretic or not is not being "a good Berean". Particularly so when being "a good berean" involves proof-texting up one side and down the other without regard to context (inductive and literary), placement in the book, or overall message.
Case in point, someone earlier cited 2nd Timothy. The context of 2nd Timothy is an Apostle who has authority over a certain church writing a letter to an elder in that church about how to run that church. Perhaps even more importantly, it is a spiritual father writing to a spiritual son about his job as the elder in a church. That being said, Paul's commands to Timothy are most correctly relevant in the running of a church, and not interpersonal relationship. Not that they are completely irrelevant, but that is where they are most appropriately used. This is one of the main problems of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura... namely, that we view the Bible as the only bit of guidance we ever need, so we grasp on to one verse that seems to speak to our situation, all at the expense of the rest. Context is king in study, and yet it is the most easily forgotten tool. Context is the reason why I can say confidently that 2nd Thessalonians 2, Revelation 3:10, and Matthew 24 do not in any way prove a pre-tribulation rapture. That is being a good Berean. Someone's quotes the individual verse (such as Revelation 3:10), I go and look it up, find out that it is in the midst of a letter to a church and is referring to coming persecution, then reject the doctrine.
Going to scripture is a good thing. Going to the source of the scripture with the scripture is even better.
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/19/2008 8:11:43 PM
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Godhead
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Scripture best explains scripture, as diamonds cut diamonds - Spurgeon
This is the correct way to approach scripture, look at the entire passage, look at what comes before and after the verse- Luther
This is the best way to study scripture.
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A Seventh day Adventist came up to me and said, “Do you know that there is no hell?”
I then immediately replied, “Well you have nothing to worry about then.”
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/19/2008 8:15:21 PM
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PeterD
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Godhead
Scripture best explains scripture, as diamonds cut diamonds - Spurgeon
This is the correct way to approach scripture, look at the entire passage, look at what comes before and after the verse- Luther
This is the best way to study scripture.
Hello Godhead,
May I ask you are you like a Berean?
PeterD
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/19/2008 8:34:34 PM
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Godhead
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Absolutely in the sense that the Bible is my only rule in life and everybody, every teaching has to measure up to its great truths. Also that it is not a book to be trifled with, but we must study it carefully and reverently so that we may not misinterprete it.
_____________________________
A Seventh day Adventist came up to me and said, “Do you know that there is no hell?”
I then immediately replied, “Well you have nothing to worry about then.”
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/20/2008 9:27:02 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Godhead
Absolutely in the sense that the Bible is my only rule in life and everybody, every teaching has to measure up to its great truths. Also that it is not a book to be trifled with, but we must study it carefully and reverently so that we may not misinterprete it.
I concur with you post here Godhead.
The Holy Spirit will reveal the truth of Scripture to those who seek;
(1Jn 2:27) But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/20/2008 10:00:27 AM
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themaestro
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I take a little more of a simplistic view of the intentions of Luke when he wrote about the Bereans checking Scripture to see if what was taught tp them was true.
I think the passage is telling us to check Scripture to see if what is taught to us is true.
Thanks
RC
Agree completely
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/21/2008 9:22:02 AM
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ferdgoodfellow
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First of all, is it pronounced "Buh reen'" or "Bayr' ee uhn"
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/21/2008 9:40:57 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ferdgoodfellow
First of all, is it pronounced "Buh reen'" or "Bayr' ee uhn"
ferd:
It's good to see you drop by from time to time. Now that we have got that out the way (and you are quite right), what does the RCC do with it's Bereans nowadays? After all Luther was a Berean of sorts, and he got the sack.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: What does it mean to be a Berean? - 4/23/2008 10:11:26 AM
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ferdgoodfellow
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Hey Ezra, ye auld Hound, good to see you too.
One of my daughter's college friends has a Catholic dad and a mom who describes herself as a "Berean". (she pronounced it Buh reen' BTW).
Anyway, regarding present day Bereans and how the Church treats them... hmmm. First off, there are no present day Bereans in the sense of Jews hearing the Gospel fresh the lips of an apostle. We live in the post apostolic era. But hopefully there still are Jews today who hear the Gospel. Those who are open to the truth undoubtedly will search the Hebrew Scriptures to square them with the Christian tradition. Those who reject it are free to do so. We still pray for them and their conversion.
cordially,
ferd
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