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Long prayers are bad? - 4/16/2008 4:45:28 AM
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glimmerinthedark
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I've been hearing people condemn long prayers. I agree that praying long prayers in front of others for your own glory is evil. It's no different than what the pharisees did. But is it wrong to pray long prayers by yourself? After you "enter the closet, and shut the door". What if you long to talk to God? If you're doing it out of your heart? Is it still sinful then? I mean, gee, I never knew God had a set limit to how much you're allowed to talk to him. Honestly, it seems that everything being done out of the heart is "bad" to these people. They are doing nothing less than discouraging and stomping out the flame Jesus put inside the hearts of believers. What do you think converted me to following Jesus? Was it the Bible thumpers? Was it the people who always tried to pull the speck out of my eye, without noticing the one in their's? Was it the fear mongering? No way. On the contrary, this is what kept me far away from it. It was my mother, and other praying for me with all their hearts. Jesus touched my heart, and showed me the truth. He showed me why Christianity is so genuine and different from all the other religions of this world. Without that, I probably would have been six feet under by now. Don't get me wrong though. God's word is what I base my life off of. I love his word. It's just that people are using it in the wrong way. They are forgetting the main message of it. Look at the pharisees, they did the same thing. They ran about condemning people and judging, and fear mongering them. They enjoyed being looked at "saints". When in truth, they couldn't care less about God. They worshipped God with their lips, but their hearts were far from him. My point is, "men's hearts are growing cold", and are leading people astray.
< Message edited by glimmerinthedark -- 4/16/2008 5:39:59 AM >
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/16/2008 4:57:21 AM
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Melitac
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I believe we should seek Him as much as possible.
If you need to seek the Lord, you can do so RIGHT AWAY!
No matter the place...
But "playing prayer" is not real prayer.
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/16/2008 5:32:16 AM
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glimmerinthedark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Melitac
I believe we should seek Him as much as possible.
If you need to seek the Lord, you can do so RIGHT AWAY!
No matter the place...
But "playing prayer" is not real prayer.
I completely agree. Prayer should be done out of honesty and humbleness of the heart.
< Message edited by glimmerinthedark -- 4/16/2008 5:38:36 AM >
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/16/2008 8:02:46 AM
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SonInMe1
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It depends how close lunch is.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/16/2008 8:14:49 AM
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conrack50
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Our Heavenly Father knows our schedule and gives us our choice how long to pray.
I just recently started praying longer than I normally do because it's my choice.
I also believe we should seek Him as much as possible.
I also use "silent" prayers thru the day because I may be where I cannot pray aloud.
Our Father in Heaven hears all prayers no matter where we are.
There are also times I just "talk" to my Father God, it could be a prayer or just a conversation with Him. He hears me and knows what's on my heart before I even think of what to say.
Connie Lou
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/16/2008 9:22:32 AM
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TMeeks
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I don't quite understand the post. How could the length of a prayer be a factor except in specific situations.
I will often urge people to pray very short prayers that specifically invite God to move them into the center of His will. And. it they are so distressed that they need less chaos in their life and more faith, a short prayer of praise that recognizes God as sovereign, I suggest a short prayer so that the prayer is more focused.
But, to pray a short prayer here or there doesn't mean that a meaningful long prayer is not appropriate.
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Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/16/2008 11:04:30 AM
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john_is_free
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I have read that the term contemplative prayer is referring to a practice of taking one thought, image or word and focusing on that in the from of a mantra. This is to be avoided.
To be contemplative in prayer is good. Seeking God with long private prayer sessions allow God to minister to us throught the Holy Spirit. Praise and worship as part of prayer is encourage. In fact is the first part of the Lord's Prayer.
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/16/2008 12:29:15 PM
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DenimDiva
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I think that one should pray as long as they are led to. For some that's just a few seconds and other times it's a few days, etc.
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/16/2008 12:42:50 PM
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Jhud
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Paul said we should 'pray continually' - that would seem to indicate a prayer that is as long as, well, as long as one is alive.
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/16/2008 12:48:44 PM
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TJStarfire
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quote:
glimmerinthedark
I've been hearing people condemn long prayers.
Romans 14:11-13 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
In public, long prayers cause some people to judge, so one should not put that stumblingblock in anothers way. In private, as long as it is not vain repetitions it depends on how much you need to tell or ask for.
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/16/2008 5:45:20 PM
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SD456
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Pray for as long or short as is on your heart. And don't worry about repeating yourself. Sometimes all I've been able to say is "holy, holy, you're holy," over and over for a long time. God doesn't care if we are repetive, He cares if we are using words 'that have no meaning'.
Matthew 6:7
When you pray, don't babble like the idolaters, since they imagine they'll be heard for their many words
The pagans of the time would just sit and babble on to their false gods with prayers that had no power (since it wasn't the real God they were speaking to) and yet they believed because they sat there talking endlessly that they were proving how 'devout' they were and they would then find favor with the god they were worshipping because of this show of devoutness.
Since we don't have to work to earn God's affection or favor, we don't have to ever try and prove our 'devoutness' by praying a certain way.
Just pray with a sincere heart - long or short it doesn't matter.
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/17/2008 1:55:42 AM
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faith_alone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: john_is_free
I have read that the term contemplative prayer is referring to a practice of taking one thought, image or word and focusing on that in the from of a mantra. This is to be avoided.
Contemplative prayer is actually a "christianized" version of transcendental meditation. It is also referred to as spiritual breathing and breath prayers.
This is something that Beth Moore is pushing. I've heard it's also being taught in some Charismatic and Emerging churches. One passage they use says ,"...be still and know that I am the Lord thy God." They think that by physically being still and focusing on a single thing (like breathing) will allow God to speak to us on a different level.
You are correct. This is to be avoided.
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/17/2008 2:18:44 AM
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SD456
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I disagree with you on that one. Contemplative prayer is something that the transcendental meditation crew lifted from God's followers, not the other way around.
Look in the 'church' folder about soaking prayer. You'll find lots of good comments about contemplative, soaking, waiting on God in silence type of praying.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 4/17/2008 2:26:37 AM >
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/17/2008 2:32:01 AM
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kung_fu_sed
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faith_alone
quote:
ORIGINAL: john_is_free
I have read that the term contemplative prayer is referring to a practice of taking one thought, image or word and focusing on that in the from of a mantra. This is to be avoided.
Contemplative prayer is actually a "christianized" version of transcendental meditation. It is also referred to as spiritual breathing and breath prayers.
This is something that Beth Moore is pushing. I've heard it's also being taught in some Charismatic and Emerging churches. One passage they use says ,"...be still and know that I am the Lord thy God." They think that by physically being still and focusing on a single thing (like breathing) will allow God to speak to us on a different level.
You are correct. This is to be avoided.
So when you're reading God's word, turning up a worship song and singing along, or praying, your mind is supposed to be thinking about the cares of the world? That wouldn't make sense. Because if you don't focus on God, and instead on other worldly things, your not accomplishing anything. Now i'm not saying you need to sit down criss cross applesauce, and repeat "The Lord is my shepherd" a million times. However, what's the point of even bothering in taking the time to read God's word, or praying, if your mind is on something else the whole time. Seems more like Christianity would just be "part" of your life, instead of it BEING your life, at that point.
< Message edited by kung_fu_sed -- 4/17/2008 3:02:16 AM >
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/17/2008 8:33:33 AM
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faith_alone
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quote:
So when you're reading God's word, turning up a worship song and singing along, or praying, your mind is supposed to be thinking about the cares of the world? That wouldn't make sense. Because if you don't focus on God, and instead on other worldly things, your not accomplishing anything. Now i'm not saying you need to sit down criss cross applesauce, and repeat "The Lord is my shepherd" a million times. However, what's the point of even bothering in taking the time to read God's word, or praying, if your mind is on something else the whole time. Seems more like Christianity would just be "part" of your life, instead of it BEING your life, at that point.
Let me clarify. We should meditate on God's word. There's nothing wrong with silent meditation on God's word. What's being taught today is closer to transcendental meditation. Christians are being taught to clear their minds and let God communicate to them. The problem here is that God has already revealed himself to us through the scriptures. I do not believe that God is going to speak personal words to me through any form of meditation/prayer. If we pray according to God's will, then ours prayers will be answered providentially throughout our lives.
Pastor Bob DeWaay wrote on this topic in his Critical Issues Commentary newsletter.
http://www.cicministry.org/commentary/issue99.htm
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/17/2008 9:05:26 AM
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TJStarfire
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quote:
faith_alone
Christians are being taught to clear their minds and let God communicate to them. The problem here is that God has already revealed himself to us through the scriptures.
Far too many people forget that the holy ghost is here on this planet to be our guide and comforter and after they pray they forget to listen for an answer. It is not GOD that does not hear.
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/17/2008 3:04:15 PM
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SD456
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quote:
Christians are being taught to clear their minds and let God communicate to them.
Oh my gosh! What is christendom coming to? To think that we can actually be silent and hear God speak to us via His Holy Spirit?
quote:
I do not believe that God is going to speak personal words to me through any form of meditation/prayer
Then He probably won't. It takes faith to go to God and believe that He will answer.
But for those of us who hear God speaking to us in our hearts, keep it up, keep pursuing Him and all He has for you.
quote:
after they pray they forget to listen for an answer. It is not GOD that does not hear.
Excellent point!
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/17/2008 9:43:54 PM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
It depends how close lunch is.
It depends on how close lunch is? To do what, lead more men astray?
Yer sittin' in church and its been a long sermon....kinda boring...and the pastor is going into his last ten minute prayer...and its noon...and your stomach is growling...and maybe, just maybe a thought of lunch comes into your mind and you have a silent prayer that the pastor understands that Silence is Golden.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/17/2008 11:12:29 PM
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kung_fu_sed
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faith_alone
Let me clarify. We should meditate on God's word. There's nothing wrong with silent meditation on God's word. What's being taught today is closer to transcendental meditation. Christians are being taught to clear their minds and let God communicate to them. The problem here is that God has already revealed himself to us through the scriptures. I do not believe that God is going to speak personal words to me through any form of meditation/prayer. If we pray according to God's will, then ours prayers will be answered providentially throughout our lives.
Pastor Bob DeWaay wrote on this topic in his Critical Issues Commentary newsletter.
http://www.cicministry.org/commentary/issue99.htm
I agree that we don't have to turn into meditating hippies, but what is so wrong with clearing your mind. What's so bad about forgetting about the hustle and bustle of life. I find it useful, and that I can and concentrate on my praying, Bible reading, ect. I mean, when Jesus was praying, did he focus on how little Peter's faith was when he walked on water? Did Jesus focus on how he 0wned the pharisees earlier that day? I wouldn't think so. I personally think that's it's a good idea to clear your mind when you pray, and focus on God.
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/18/2008 1:25:58 AM
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BibleL7
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glimmerinthedark
Pray as long as you want and often and it should absolutely be from the heart. For anyone who says long prayers are wrong ask them why Paul said pray without ceasing? or Why does Scripture tell us that Jesus prayed all night? I would say if Jesus felt it was important to pray long prayers then we should want to pray even longer. After all He is God and He felt long prayer was good for Him what makes us thin it should be different for us mere humans. And if you read Matthew 6 you will find God wants prayer to come from the heart.
In your original post you pretty much got it right on. No we should not pray long in front of others to be noticed. We only pray with others present in my opinion when we do so to come in agreement in prayer. That is why every Thursday night when we have our men's Bible study we start with a hymn then one person starts prayer then each other brother who wishes to pray prays all aloud then I will when there is quietness and it seems others are done praying I pray my concerns and ask the Lord to take our prayer with all being in agreement in Jesus name. And yes we pray in services and meetings but we also need to pray alone in our rooms or closets. And that prayer time should be as long as it can be. Praising and talking to the Lord. We should not in my opinion tell others about how long we pray each day or say I cant help you at that time cause that's my prayer hour. That is trying to make people think you are so Spiritual. Any time you are alone is a good time to talk to the Lord in prayer closet. During work time or if you have things you need to do is not a good time for long prayers short ones are better for that. Ya know just Lord Help with this. But that is also something you should do silently in my opinion cause I don't want people to notice me praying, I want God to notice and He does.
As to the posts about meditational prayer Clearing you mind and concentrating on breathing aint it. If you want to meditate then put a passage of Scripture in your mind and meditate. Yes God speaks to us by Holy Spirit but it has been my experience as well as many others have told me that He usually speaks to you when you are first seeking Him and contemplating Scripture or praising Him. If He isnt on your mind He is not likely to answer you. Kinda like a phone call. You get the person on the other end of the line and you can converse but if you dont have that person there you cant get a response from them. And to clear your mind of everything is same as saying dont let anybody else be on phone I want an answer. Duh The Lord said SEEK ye first the Kingdom of God and all others would be added not think of nothing or clear you thoughts.
BTW I would agree with the poster that preachers tend to be the ones that should be aware of lengthy prayers at end of service problem is many will preach a sermon in their prayer when the sermon is done the ending prayer should be prayer not another sermon. Let the congregation digest the main sermon and pray for there understand and safety and blessings as the go out but not another sermon. And the longer prayer should be when the alter call is done. We ususally do ours before the sermon.
Just the opinion of a small town preacher
< Message edited by BibleL7 -- 4/18/2008 1:42:05 AM >
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RE: Long prayers are bad? - 4/18/2008 9:35:06 AM
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faith_alone
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quote:
I agree that we don't have to turn into meditating hippies, but what is so wrong with clearing your mind. What's so bad about forgetting about the hustle and bustle of life. I find it useful, and that I can and concentrate on my praying, Bible reading, ect. I mean, when Jesus was praying, did he focus on how little Peter's faith was when he walked on water? Did Jesus focus on how he 0wned the pharisees earlier that day? I wouldn't think so. I personally think that's it's a good idea to clear your mind when you pray, and focus on God.
I agree with you completely. Today's form of contemplative prayer teaches that we should clear our minds and focus on things like our breathing. (Hence the term "breath prayers") My wife and I went to marriage retreat last year and one of the speakers was teaching that when we become overwhelmed or stressed we should close our eyes, take nice slow even breaths and focus on exhaling our problems and inhaling the holy spirit.
An Emerging Church pastor named Doug Pagit teaches that words are not sufficient to communicate with God. He uses body positions such as those used in yoga.
These type of things are heretical and cannot be supported with the bible.
quote:
Then He probably won't. It takes faith to go to God and believe that He will answer.
But for those of us who hear God speaking to us in our hearts, keep it up, keep pursuing Him and all He has for you.
I have faith that God will and does answer prayer, but He does not answer in the form of personal words. God speaks to us through the inspired scriptures. When God answers prayer, it just happens. There are some that think the Holy Spirit should speak to them like a voice in your head.
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