Accountability (Full Version)

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HigherNote4U -> Accountability (4/17/2008 1:05:57 AM)

I have a discussion topic for us. It concerns accountability. I have seen where a lot of posts have been closed down lately because of posters talking about sensitive issues within the gospel music community. I'm not going to go as far as to say that it is wrong to close the topics, but I would like to get a feel from everyone on here as to why some topics are not to be discussed.

Let me explain a little. I'll start with a real situation, which happened at a church that I was attending, and then ask a question. I started going to a church a few years back where the preaching was simply awesome. I grew up in church but never experienced the type of learning that I got from this church, as well as great music, great youth programs, etc. My wife and I were seperated for approximately six months when we started going here togeter trying to work things out. After a couple of years it was discovered that the preacher (who had counseled my wife and I) had been having an affair on his wife. He resigned, they seperated, and later divorced. It was later discovered that the man had affairs on at least two other situations while leading a church. I was so hurt upon finding this out.

Now, I worship a God that forgives us of our sins and teaches us that we should forgive others. I have since learned that this man has started another church and is preaching again. Let me say again that this man is the BEST preacher I've ever heard..period. My question is that just because God has forgiven him if he asks does this give the man the right to continue leading a church. Does it seem that this man has failed to lead the church properly and has abused his leadership roles? To many it appears that he can't be trusted in a leadership role, regardless of his preaching abilities. Now, my question is if this person did this while in leadership of the church, should the congregation be informed of this or just come in on sunday morning and see a new preacher in the pulpit?

Now, the whole point of this post is to ask what the difference is between the situation I've described above and incidences that have occurred with members of groups leaving, etc. These artists are by all accounts ministry leaders that have taken it upon themselves to witness to christians and non-christians in hopes of seeing them saved. If a southern gospel artist has done something that most would consider "unbecoming", should the "church" be informed of this so that they could make the decision as to continue supporting them or not?

Up until now in this post I have not listed my opinion on the matter. I don't think that anyone should list anything that is just a rumor and not confirmed. I also don't think that if something is "aired" that we should just forget about the person and not lift them up in prayer. In my opinion some of the best testimonies that I have heard have been from artists that were caught up in something that they had done wrong and were "called" on it. If people do not know what is going on with an artist or other ministry, then they can't lift the person up in prayer, and then the person continues on without any accountability in their ministry. How long do you think that the scandel with Kirk Talley would have continued if he wasn't forced to face the facts? He now has a testimony from it. How many more times would Michael English have traveled down the wrong path if he wasn't forced to deal with his problems? Now people say he is better than ever and has a great testimony as well.

Things happen. We are human and God knows that we mess things up. Regardless of how sensitive subjects are, I feel that they need to be discussed. Yes, I do think most things are private. But, when a person is in a ministry then they have chosen to lead somewhat of an open life for others to see and talk about. Tough role, but they chose it. I am a police officer by profession. If I do something that is ethically wrong, whether it is illegal or not, my picture would be plastered on the TV screen on all the news channels. I know this because I have a role that puts most of what I do in the public eye.

We have all heard the stories of gospel artists doing things that is just outright wrong..some in public, some in private. I think that we as fans and supporters of their ministries deserve the right to know when something major is going on. If they are doing something morally wrong and not having to face the consequences, I for one do not want to support them with my time and money.

Does anyone agree or disagree with what I have listed? Now, I know that I have posted some controversal comments on here before and this isn't what this is about. I would just like to see how others on here feel about some of the hypothetical situations that could arise and how we as fans should or should not handle discussing it.

Thanks in advance for the comments.



Seaton -> RE: Accountability (4/17/2008 7:42:25 AM)

Many things could be said in response to this topic, but at the end of the day the Lord himself will take care of everything. We as the 'general listening audience' should not offer up countless reasons as to why, on any personal topic. I buy music from specific artists because I like the music. Would finding something out about a certain artist diminish my views on the music? I know everyone will answer that differently, but for me the answer is no.

Enjoy the music and let the Lord take care of the rest!



Dinana -> RE: Accountability (4/17/2008 7:50:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seaton

Many things could be said in response to this topic, but at the end of the day the Lord himself will take care of everything. We as the 'general listening audience' should not offer up countless reasons as to why, on any personal topic. I buy music from specific artists because I like the music. Would finding something out about a certain artist diminish my views on the music? I know everyone will answer that differently, but for me the answer is no.

Enjoy the music and let the Lord take care of the rest!


I would have to make a judgement on whether the person's acts have disqualified him from leading me as either a pastor or a singer. I once left a church because the things that had gone on there (and were still going on) were getting in the way of my worship experience. But I do have to say that I hold pastors to a much higher degree of accountability than I do gospel singers.



Seaton -> RE: Accountability (4/17/2008 7:54:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinana

I would have to make a judgement on whether the person's acts have disqualified him from leading me as either a pastor or a singer. I once left a church because the things that had gone on there (and were still going on) were getting in the way of my worship experience. But I do have to say that I hold pastors to a much higher degree of accountability than I do gospel singers.


I do too. My origianl statement was on the music itself, not the artist. If I purchased a recording from an artist and I really liked the music and it was later found out the artist had some indiscretions, I am not going to stop listening to the CD I purchased because I purchased it for the music (that was the point I was attempting to make). The artists ultimate indiscretions will have to be dealt with between them and the Lord. The music is still there for me to enjoy.



Dinana -> RE: Accountability (4/17/2008 8:00:36 AM)

Good points, but depending on the offense, it might ruin the music for me, too - at least as performed by that artist. If I liked the song(s) that much, I could probably find another artist's version.



Seaton -> RE: Accountability (4/17/2008 8:03:29 AM)

I would add that if an artist was dealing with an indiscretion, they shouldn't be on the stage. I do agree it could hinder their performance. They should deal with it first before returning.



GVfan -> RE: Accountability (4/17/2008 8:05:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Seaton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinana

I would have to make a judgement on whether the person's acts have disqualified him from leading me as either a pastor or a singer. I once left a church because the things that had gone on there (and were still going on) were getting in the way of my worship experience. But I do have to say that I hold pastors to a much higher degree of accountability than I do gospel singers.


I do too. My origianl statement was on the music itself, not the artist. If I purchased a recording from an artist and I really liked the music and it was later found out the artist had some indiscretions, I am not going to stop listening to the CD I purchased because I purchased it for the music (that was the point I was attempting to make). The artists ultimate indiscretions will have to be dealt with between them and the Lord. The music is still there for me to enjoy.


I agree that the ultimate Judge is the Lord. However, I DO have some music from a group that I know has some issues with the way they live their lives offstage, and now their music does not minister to me the way it used to. No one else will find out what I know because it is not up to me to make sure these people are "found out", such as was the case with Kirk and Michael. Now, if I were a friend or associate of these guys, that would be a different story. But as a general fan, no, it is not my place to hold them "accountable." I also believe that being held "accountable" is a private thing, not necessarily a public thing! That's my little opinion! [;)]



Seaton -> RE: Accountability (4/17/2008 8:15:11 AM)

So we do hold Gospel singers to a higher standard than other musical genres? Not that that is wrong and to a certain degree I guess we should. General questions for everyone:

*Do you ever just like the music for the music, not the artist performing it?

*Say you are a huge country music (insert any secular genre here) fan. You purchased a CD from an artist (who also professes to be a Christian) because you heard a song on the radio. The entire CD was great and you listen to it all the time. Certain indiscretions are found out about the country singer. Are you more inclined to continue listening to the country CD than you would if the artist was singing only Gospel music.

...jus' something to think about...



Jeff_from_Kentucky -> RE: Accountability (4/17/2008 8:31:14 AM)

When it comes to the topic under discussion I believe that we need to go whichever way the Lord leads us. I don't know of any perfect Christians, whether in Southern Gospel music or not. Sometimes we stumble. Personally, I think the key is whether or not the person is truly repentant.

Here is an example of what I mean. Singer A and Singer B each have an extramarital affair and the affairs become public knowledge. Both admit to it and ask forgiveness. Singer A patches things up with his/her spouse, continues to sing, and never does it again. Singer B has another affair that becomes public knowledge the next year and then another one the year after that, goes through two or three marriages, and so on.

In that scenario, I would probably stop listening to Singer B but would continue to listen to Singer A if I already liked their music to begin with. I guess a lot would depend on whether something is an isolated incident or an ongoing pattern of behavior.



Kath -> RE: Accountability (4/17/2008 8:49:30 AM)

Due to the rules of this folder I am moving this thread from Southern Gospel to Music.

In case anyone missed it, this is the point of this thread
quote:

Now, the whole point of this post is to ask what the difference is between the situation I've described above and incidences that have occurred with members of groups leaving, etc. These artists are by all accounts ministry leaders that have taken it upon themselves to witness to christians and non-christians in hopes of seeing them saved. If a southern gospel artist has done something that most would consider "unbecoming", should the "church" be informed of this so that they could make the decision as to continue supporting them or not?


edited to fix the link to the rules



gaylel1 -> RE: Accountability (4/19/2008 12:59:22 PM)

I know a lot of you people have posted are from the SG community, and I can understand your concerns here because this issue not only happens in the SG, but in CCM and yes, in ministries which includes our leaders which we watch on the six major christian televison network (at least those which I have on Directv).

Kirk and Michael dealt with their issues and so they moved on. So did Amy--and let's add her to the mix and despite her personal problems moved on with her life too. As long as the person truly repented and yes, gotten counseling from a pastor and did say they are sorry to the public and their fans, there should be nothing to worry about.

But it would be an issue when someone is not "truly repentant", yet go on in ministry anyways--for example there were two high profile pastors who are shown on many televison networks, yet they divorced last year. The other one was involved in another high profile case which dealt with abuse. Both of them never said they were sorry publically, and that troubles me because leaders to me like a pastor should have a higher standard because they lead those people like the musicians and teach musicans to walk in the ways of the Lord. But how can the musicans try to live pure lives when their leaders are not examples?



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