Worship Leaders (Full Version)

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zippty_day -> Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 6:32:47 PM)

We've been having some interesting discussions lately on servant hood and I got to thinking that it'd be good for us to discuss how we handle promotions or raising up our teams. It seems that many have gotten stuck on unfamiliar use of terminology.

Just like any human life we go through stages in our process to maturity or promotions. We shouldn't all stay in our diapers or 2nd grade. We need to keep learning and passing our tests to be promoted or advance in every stage of our lives. Even in marriage we grow and advance or our love deepens as we mature.



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 6:33:53 PM)

So, here's a common scenario. A worship team is formed. The church has been established for a while and then a new person joins the team. Low and behold, they're really gifted and not only that, they're a mature believer. You, as the leader, recognize their qualifications and a short time later place this person in a deserved leadership roll. Now, you have the others, who may not be so talented, gossiping and bickering behind your back. They're upset because they've been waiting to be in that position and now this newbie has it.

How do you handle this situation?



ChoirDJ -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 7:16:28 PM)

I wouldn't be inclined to put a newbie in a position of authority right away no matter how talented or gifted they might be. I do believe that such people need to be "tested" and given an opportunity to earn the respect of existing members over a period of time before that person should be given more responsibility. How much time depends on the individual situation but certainly not right away....And I don't think people should necessarily be raised up based on seniority especially if their passion for God and talents don't warrant such.



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 7:56:38 PM)

ChoirDJ, you and I are on the same page, HELP ME explain this to some of the others. To me, what you wrote is perfectly legible, but I realized that this forum has some that are starting out or haven't had opportunity to advance. They are having a real hard time understanding me.



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 8:00:54 PM)

Where do you want to start? Some people have a calling and an anointing to lead worship. Some people are gifted musicians or vocalists. We all have to start somewhere, right? Then we enter the process to develop our gift or talent.

If you are anointed for something then the presence of the Lord comes and helps you in what you are doing. Sometimes you can actually feel the anointing come over you as you lead. If you've never experienced that, I'm sorry, it's absolutely wonderful!



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 8:07:53 PM)

I can sing a whole lot better than I can play the keyboard. Fortunately, I can play enough to get by but I'm extremely limited in my skill and would frustrate a 'seasoned' or skilled musician if they had to play with me. I know my abilities and shortcomings in that area and I don't feel bad about it because I can do other things well.



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 8:09:06 PM)

Now, worship leader, what if I'm your only keyboardist in the church and someone else comes in that's better than me? Well, because I know my abilities and I don't feel insecure because someone else plays better than I do, I will recognize their ability and gladly step aside. I work with one of the best pianists in Guadalajara actually 2 of them and I know a 3rd. When I moved to Mexico, we recognized this young man's ability, believing in what he could do and invested in his life. How do you believe and invest in a life? We bought equipment for him that built him up and we encouraged him to produce and we encouraged him to go to school and helped pay for it.



crankius -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 8:24:17 PM)

I deleted my earlier post because for some odd reason[sm=silly.gif], I thought you were posting that in the other thread...and I was afraid we were getting that thread off topic. So sorry! [:)] That's what I get for cooking and posting at the same time.


quote:

ORIGINAL: funny_girl
I realized that this forum has some that are starting out or haven't had opportunity to advance. They are having a real hard time understanding me.


[&:]

Please don't be condescending. You are posting in the ministry leaders folder, which means that your fellow posters in here are generally well-experienced in the ministry.

quote:

Just like any human life we go through stages in our process to maturity or promotions. We shouldn't all stay in our diapers or 2nd grade. We need to keep learning and passing our tests to be promoted or advance in every stage of our lives. Even in marriage we grow and advance or our love deepens as we mature.


What I don't understand is your use of the term "promotions". Do you have scripture to explain what you mean?



crankius -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 8:47:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: funny_girl

Paying the price for the promotion that God has given to you. God watches us and if we pass our tests He'll promote us. Not saying that we aren't kind to others but if I'm responsible to arrange the music, rehearsals, and have the responsibility of leading the fellowship into His presence. Don't you think that's enough? Do I need to run the elevator too? Can't others have responsibility too? I see the goal is to keep people humble, but it comes from character in our heart not chores. It could, it just depends on the individual and where they are at.


This is a quote from the other thread where you used the term "promotion".

It strikes me as wrong, because scripture is clear that as leaders we are to be servants. Christ is our High Priest, and yet He washed the feet of the disciples, and instructed us to do the same.

I don't want to get your thread on Worship Leaders off topic, but I wanted to be specific about why the problem with the term "promotions".

The term "promotions" makes it look like there is more value to being a worship leader than there is to more "menial" tasks in the ministry. Many very mature believers serve behind the scenes--I don't think that makes them "demoted".



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 9:50:32 PM)

crankius, may I ask how old you are? I appreciate your willingness to understand.

We see promotions in every walk of life. Wasn't Joseph promoted when he was put in prison and later given charge in the prison? Later Joseph was made 2nd in command in Egypt. Maybe you're trying to make it harder than it really is. Stepping stones in life. Can you understand that? Graduating from high school to college? Graduating from college to a full time job in the career of your studies would also be a promotion in life, no? It depends on your calling. If you have a calling to be a worship leader, I guarantee that you won't be able to lead people when you first start. Each person is on an individual journey in life and there are promotions, transitions which include more responsibility.



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 9:58:33 PM)

quote:

Please don't be condescending. You are posting in the ministry leaders folder, which means that your fellow posters in here are generally well-experienced in the ministry.
I hope you recognize that some leaders that are posting are NOT well-experienced and it's obvious by what some people post. A forum is a great place for posting questions and finding support from those who do have experience and learning together.



Zhi -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 10:13:32 PM)

Hmm. Well I guess I would be the "some people", and I'm really not sure why you've decided it's necessary to make an entire new thread about how wrong you think I am.

I guess I would have to just point out that you appear to have completely misunderstood basically everything about my situation, as is especially evidenced in the constant use of the word "promotion", which has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I have been part of worship teams and occassionally led worship teams for over 15 years now, and this is the first time I've ever seen something like this.



bluestone -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 10:32:40 PM)

I have been in church for most of my 48 years. I see in church, and particularly in music an attitude of politics, oneupmanship, and competition that has no place in a house of worship. [:'(]

Some new person comes in, is really good at what they do, and *POOF* they are in leadership in an area, while those who have proved faithful for years are shoved aside. Of course, when the new person moves on to greater things, old faithful gets the call to come back to the old position.[8|]

Music has become a show, entertainment instead of worship. The backbiting and gossip come from cliques...which are formed due to the politics.

Those seeking a career in music should seek it outside of the church. I would rather hear someone off key and sincere than someone perfectly hitting every note that is after a musical career [sm=dollars.gif]instead of praising God and encouraging others to do the same.



crankius -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 10:45:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: funny_girl

We see promotions in every walk of life. Wasn't Joseph promoted when he was put in prison and later given charge in the prison? Later Joseph was made 2nd in command in Egypt. Maybe you're trying to make it harder than it really is. Stepping stones in life. Can you understand that? Graduating from high school to college? Graduating from college to a full time job in the career of your studies would also be a promotion in life, no? It depends on your calling. If you have a calling to be a worship leader, I guarantee that you won't be able to lead people when you first start. Each person is on an individual journey in life and there are promotions, transitions which include more responsibility.


Joseph was placed by God exactly where God wanted him so that he could be used as part of God's plan to save the Israelites. In the same way, many faithful followers in scripture were placed in low positions because that is where God wanted them for His Glory. Surely you are aware of all the various servants of God who met with horrible circumstances, and yet were entirely faithful.

Scripture uses much imagery to describe our life in Christ, but "promotions" isn't one of them. The Christian life is not measured in such human hierarchical terms of achievement. The lowest among us will be the greatest in Heaven.

A person serving as worship leader doesn't necessarily mean they are "promoted" or mature.



phosadaud -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 10:51:19 PM)

I am in our music ministries leadership team. The most mature believers I have know were the ones who put aside how "good" they are and use their skills to build up others who maybe aren't quite as talented. The ones who always have to be on the front line because they are the "best" are usually the ones who are the least mature. The ones who are about building the team and letting someone else "grow" up front are the ones who are most mature.

Our music department is blessed with tremendous talent. One of the things that I have most appareciated about our team is that we are a team. It's not a competition. It's about worship and worship isn't about what a cool voice you have. It's about God.



H2ODoc -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 11:13:30 PM)

quote:

I am in our music ministries leadership team. The most mature believers I have know were the ones who put aside how "good" they are and use their skills to build up others who maybe aren't quite as talented. The ones who always have to be on the front line because they are the "best" are usually the ones who are the least mature. The ones who are about building the team and letting someone else "grow" up front are the ones who are most mature.


This is exactly how a Christ-centered church behaves. If, instead, you want to run the church like a secular corporation, you take the approach of funny_girl.



Kerrlaw -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 11:21:37 PM)

quote:

crankius, may I ask how old you are?


Waiting...



crankius -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/17/2008 11:27:43 PM)

Oh, Mr. Kerrlaw!!! [sm=icon_smile_faint.gif]

Such a shocking question to ask a woman of my maturity!



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 12:27:23 AM)

crankius, Not knowing if I'm speaking to a college student or a senior citizen is difficult. I guess I'll just keep writing to everyone the same and if someone isn't happy with how I'm communicating, that's not my problem.

I don't play games, if I wanted to continue on the other thread, I would have. Honestly, the girl needs to go and talk to the pastor. What else is there to say?

I'm not wired to debate, it upsets me so good night.



techne -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 12:31:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: funny_girl
So, here's a common scenario. A worship team is formed. The church has been established for a while and then a new person joins the team. Low and behold, they're really gifted and not only that, they're a mature believer. You, as the leader, recognize their qualifications and a short time later place this person in a deserved leadership roll. Now, you have the others, who may not be so talented, gossiping and bickering behind your back. They're upset because they've been waiting to be in that position and now this newbie has it.

How do you handle this situation?

basically, if you're the leader -- you explain yourself.

and then you explain what the qualifications, responsibilities and expectations are for what you envision as leadership (whether public or behind the scenes). actually, that often settles some of the striving issues. "worship ministry" is a lot less glamorous when work and preparation and maturity are required and involved (and notice that gifting and talent weren't mentioned -- they're far less important than character and maturity)...



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:40:27 AM)

I've gotten all worked up and can't sleep so here are my thoughts. Thank you techne for a great post!

One reason why I'm upset is that I feel you’ve slighted people that have been given a talent. I'm not talking about a show off. I'm talking about someone that is as techne said, "a lot less glamorous when work preparation and maturity are required and involved". Jesus spoke in the parable of the servant and talents. One received one, another what, 5? And yet another 10, if my memory serves me right. To the one who buried his talent? Did Jesus say, "Oh, poor thing? I'll accept your dirty little talent?" NO, He took it from him and gave it to the one who had TEN! I call that a promotion. He received more responsibility. He called the servant who buried it a wicked servant.



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:44:38 AM)

I have a hard time understanding criticism of someone’s labor of love for the Lord. When they have labored with many talents to give an offering of praise and worship to our Lord, for His glory! Perhaps some fall into that category of a show off, but certainly not ALL! So don’t be jealous of those whom it has been given. Jealousy roots from insecurity and it’s ugly!

Let me give you another example. Not about jealousy but about need and sacrifice. I have a calling to lead worship and I was invited to bring a team and our equipment to minister at a district women's conference in Zacatecus, Mexico. The first session, they asked me to lead. I was one of 3 leaders. I was intimidating to the other women that were asked to lead because they don't have equal talent or skill that I have. It was embarrassing and bothered them so they refused to minister. They even came to me and told me.



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:47:02 AM)

So, this is what I did. I had all the women that lead worship in their churches come forward and lead with me. I told them that right now, they needed to lead worship. If they really didn't have a call or the talent to lead but were doing it out of necessity that they were still going to remain faithful in that position until God brought someone else. Then, they were going to release that person that was called to do this work. Here's a video clip. http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t158/lamujerdegar/?action=view¤t=CongresodeDamasZacatecusMX2006.flv

The leaders were up in the front to the right of me. You know what? They loved it!



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:49:26 AM)

Do you want those who are called, play beautiful or sing beautiful to hide their talent?. You'd rather hear someone off key? I think that individual was referring to the attitude or heart of the worshiper, right? I try not to sing off key because God didn't make me tone deaf.

Why do these people that can't sing think they need to be in front leading, especially if there are others that can do it? I can understand when things are beginning and there's no one else, but surly those same people know they could certainly do something else better and pour themselves into that!

I don't write as well as others, my grammar isn't that great. So I don’t write books. Should I force my writings because I like to or feel I have something to say when people can’t understand me? If I write a book, will you buy it and enjoy it?



zippty_day -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:51:25 AM)

In one church we pastored, I knew God was calling me to lead worship but I was very insecure. The man that had been there was 'the song leader'. He was very touchy about his position. He didn't belong there. He didn't have a heart of worship. So, I just helped as I could. We were very immature leaders and my husband didn't want to rock the boat. So, I wasn't 'promoted' then. Even though the call was obvious, I had to submit to authority and wait until the Lord opened the doors for me to 'advance' and become sure of myself.

Often, before I minister, I can't eat. I'm deep in prayer. I get sick to my stomach. It's laborous for me as I prepare myself as I’m pleading for God's mercy and help. That I wouldn't be seen and His glory would be present.



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