RE: Worship Leaders (Full Version)

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funny_girl -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:55:30 AM)

Whatever you call the process. I didn't start leading until I had paid the price. When I was in high school, we attended a large church. Even though the truth is that I was probably the best vocalist in the youth group, my worship pastor never let me think that. I always had to try out like everyone else and always wondered if I'd get the part. I'm thankful for that. My husband can't sing a tune in a bucket. He joined the youth choir and was asked to lipsinc, LOL My husband is a dynamic preacher and a deep teacher. He can't sing and he knows it. If the Lord places something on my heart, I can communicate it, but if I share it with Gary, he can make a beautiful sermon or teaching out of it.



funny_girl -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:57:12 AM)

I was in charge of the singers in a large church here in Guadalajara. One girl, has a beautiful worshipful disposition. But she can’t sing! She wanted to sing in a microphone. You know what she could do well? She was a great drama queen! But I couldn’t get her to head up a needed drama team. To me, she had a talent for it, but wanted someone else’s talent.

I think that that covers it and now I can sleep. Sorry the posts are chopped up, it’s because the internet is really slow.



bluestone -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 9:24:18 AM)

Funny_girl:
what I am saying is that many in music minstry become snobbish about their talents, and only want to show off. "me, Me, ME"!

I would rather listen to someone sincerely singing for the Lord with less talent than a really talented person who cops an attitude.

the heart of worship is much more important than the professionalism of those up front.



elastic -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 9:52:48 AM)

quote:

I don't write as well as others, my grammar isn't that great. So I don’t write books. Should I force my writings because I like to or feel I have something to say when people can’t understand me? If I write a book, will you buy it and enjoy it?


i seem to remember Moses wasn't a great public speaker, and yet when he finally submitted to God's plan for his life, huge things happened.


also, just because a person has a wonderful voice, it does not mean they need to be in a worship leader position. likewise, just because there is someone who has a better voice than the worship leader has, it does not mean that the worship leader needs to step down and allow the better singer to take their place.

worship leading is a calling, and not every one with a wonderful voice needs to pursue it. I don't have the best voice on our worship team, but for this time, God has chosen to put me where I am. I do my best to raise up other leaders, to encourage people to continue singing, but not every singer on our team desires to lead the worship. it's more than just standing up in front and singing solos.



MusicianDad -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 10:01:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone


Some new person comes in, is really good at what they do, and *POOF* they are in leadership in an area, while those who have proved faithful for years are shoved aside. Of course, when the new person moves on to greater things, old faithful gets the call to come back to the old position.[8|]




If the focus is really on Jesus, why wouldn't the "faithful" person be ecstaic when someone with more talent takes a slot they were filling? If the focus is really on Jesus, why wouldn't "old faithful" be thrilled to be asked to fill any opening at any time for any reason? What I see is a lot of jealousy from those with questionable skills towards those with lots of talent. It's really just an ego trip. Being tone deaf or having a lack of rhythm doesn't make it any more virtuous.



bluestone -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 10:19:50 AM)

If the focus is on Jesus, someone who has a lot of talent but is not a spiritual leader will not get in the position of being in charge of a music ministry.

It is not jealousy to know that when the new person who is talented, but not a leader moves on or quits someone will have to clean up the mess the baby made. It is just frustrating.

Being tone deaf does not make anyone virtuous, but being talented does not make you a leader, either.



crankius -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 10:21:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: funny_girl

So, here's a common scenario. A worship team is formed. The church has been established for a while and then a new person joins the team. Low and behold, they're really gifted and not only that, they're a mature believer. You, as the leader, recognize their qualifications and a short time later place this person in a deserved leadership roll. Now, you have the others, who may not be so talented, gossiping and bickering behind your back. They're upset because they've been waiting to be in that position and now this newbie has it.

How do you handle this situation?



Now that I've explained why I don't think the term "promotions" is appropriate in ministry, I'm going to answer your question. [:D]

What I would do is eliminate leadership in music (and the entire music team) and all just go back to worshiping the Lord corporately for a while, with limited instrumentation, because this scenario you have described would tell me that our ministry had placed too much importance in human hierarchy and "leadership positions". Taking a break would help everyone get back to why they are there and Who we are worshiping. Who are we trying to impress? GOD? He's not impressed with style or pitch, though those things are indications a person has musical gifts. We can easily take a beautiful thing and make it quite ugly by making it all about ourselves and positions of importance.

Then, I would bring back music and make everyone simply "music members" without any titles. We would all plug in where our talents were, and worship the Lord together. If you could sing, you would get to sing. If you could play an instrument, you would get to play. No music leader--just the members singing together.

I've done it both ways--having a "leader" up front, or having all the members participate and take turns saying a few words, and I prefer the latter. But that's just my personal preference, and I have equal respect for those who prefer a leader.



hjemerson -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 10:31:21 AM)

Wow I have read this post now 3 time it is a great post My husband is a worship leader in the past he had the best from the worest (that was me) in his group It took a year of having no one to work with to now he says "we are here to made a joyful noise unto the Lord " each service We have away belived if you have a talent and use it for the golry He will put you where be able to sevice.God Bless each us as we serve.



sisrev -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 10:51:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: funny_girl
I hope you recognize that some leaders that are posting are NOT well-experienced and it's obvious by what some people post.


I think it's more apparent than some even realize.



funny_girl -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 11:04:55 AM)

I'm so relieved to read your beautiful posts this morning! Whew! I thought you were all going to give me the whammy! LOL



funny_girl -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 11:10:32 AM)

I still have questions about how to handle things and I'm in agreement with what you all have written and hopefully we can hash out some areas that we/I need help with. Please!



funny_girl -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 11:14:51 AM)

I think we can all agree that a 'newbie' needs to prove themselves faithful. That really wasn't the issue I was wanting to deal with. I want to talk about how to handle jealousy and encouraging those that don't have as much talent to stay involved. They are very important to a balanced group. Not everyone that sings well has a call to lead worship. That's true.



Calea37 -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 12:28:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crankius



Now that I've explained why I don't think the term "promotions" is appropriate in ministry, I'm going to answer your question. [:D]

What I would do is eliminate leadership in music (and the entire music team) and all just go back to worshiping the Lord corporately for a while, with limited instrumentation, because this scenario you have described would tell me that our ministry had placed too much importance in human hierarchy and "leadership positions". Taking a break would help everyone get back to why they are there and Who we are worshiping. Who are we trying to impress? GOD? He's not impressed with style or pitch, though those things are indications a person has musical gifts. We can easily take a beautiful thing and make it quite ugly by making it all about ourselves and positions of importance.

Then, I would bring back music and make everyone simply "music members" without any titles. We would all plug in where our talents were, and worship the Lord together. If you could sing, you would get to sing. If you could play an instrument, you would get to play. No music leader--just the members singing together.




This was a great post; just what I needed to read.



MusicianDad -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 12:46:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

Being tone deaf does not make anyone virtuous, but being talented does not make you a leader, either.


I wasn't refering to myself as "talented". I currently serve as as bass player on one of our teams, and can do the job reasonably well most of the time. I look forward to the day when a super talented, highly mature believer walks through the door and takes my place. It's just not something I covet.

There's too much sniveling about who's on top and who's not. Kinda reminds me of a couple of guys who wanted to sit on the right hand of Christ.



funny_girl -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 12:50:37 PM)

No one likes to think about it, but we aren't socialistic in the body of Christ. This is why we have the teaching about the body. One part isn't more important but at the same time some are more visible. Some people think those who are visible are more important and they aren't! Some people know that they aren't. We are all in different stages of our walk and we have to help those understand that haven't learned yet. God designed us differently and we need to appreciate our differences.



funny_girl -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 12:52:46 PM)

I know that I'm not the best singer in the world. There's always going to be someone better than us and someone worse than us. I need those that are gifted in other areas because I can't do it.

I have another case scenario that happened to me and maybe you all could give me insight. Slow internet, so it'll be choppy posting, sorry!



funny_girl -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 12:56:40 PM)

When we came to Mexico, I'd been the worship leader for 5 years in our church. I was called, anointed for it, but being that I wasn't a skilled musician I'm thankful that my musicians tolerated me.

The church that invited us to Mexico, had skilled musicians, able to record! I couldn't understand anything so I submitted to the chorus and did whatever the worship leader asked me to do.



MusicianDad -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:07:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: funny_girl
...I submitted to the chorus and did whatever the worship leader asked me to do.



Wow! What a novel idea (sarcasm). Yeah, that would take care of 99% of the crying and jockying going on around this topic. If those who are so hurt over being passed over by "talented babies" were to start, oh say, a church parking lot sweeping ministry, or a church bathroom cleaning ministy, or a take communion to old ladies minisrty, they wouldn't have to go through the heartache of being bumped or having to "clean up the mess". There are activities out there that few want to do and no-one will ever take away.



funny_girl -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:11:14 PM)

After a while we hooked up with these musicians and began a evangelism ministry together. Later, I recognized that my leader had severe insecurity problems. He's an amazing musician but always taking a bow! It was embarrassing. He took credit for the work of others and didn't give credit to the TEAM! Scary! He wouldn't communicate effectively and guess who started keeping the musicians together? Me! Ugh! It was so hard! He'd use me. About 2 years later, he put me as the 'la jefa'/the boss over the voices, those are his words. Well, with his permission, I took the reigns and set up interviews. Found out where people were spiritually and skill wise. Then, my leader turned on me. It's was awful! We were best friends!



funny_girl -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:14:12 PM)

I think a lot of this has to do with me being a woman. His wife was encouraging. She said that I had more influence than anyone else. But, this style of leadership didn't seem to work here in this part of Mexico. The voices are always off key! UGH! I've had some formal training and many ask me here for voice lessons, but this is a different culture. Please ask for clarity if I didn't explain something well enough. Maybe ya'll can see or add something to this difficult situation.

When we first came and my leader asked me to lead out, the others became jealous of me and began to murmer(?). They didn't consider my past history as a pastor's wife/worship leader. It's possible the others didn't even know that about me.



funny_girl -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:17:45 PM)

Most of my ministry off the stage has been hospitality, pastoral care and encouragement. I cook a lot, but wow, did I get burned out!



bluestone -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:21:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MusicianDad

quote:

ORIGINAL: funny_girl
...I submitted to the chorus and did whatever the worship leader asked me to do.



Wow! What a novel idea (sarcasm). Yeah, that would take care of 99% of the crying and jockying going on around this topic. If those who are so hurt over being passed over by "talented babies" were to start, oh say, a church parking lot sweeping ministry, or a church bathroom cleaning ministy, or a take communion to old ladies minisrty, they wouldn't have to go through the heartache of being bumped or having to "clean up the mess". There are activities out there that few want to do and no-one will ever take away.



Sarcasm not appreciated.
I lead worship, read music, arrange music and am proficient on several instruments. I am not whiny or jealous, but I do see the constant arrogance and snobbism that come out of so many in music ministry. I incorporate many people into the music program, and the one thing that will get you tossed rather quickly is being an arrogant jerk.



phosadaud -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:24:12 PM)

First of all, to give some insight into me, here you go.

God blessed me with an amazing voice. I have a heart to worship Him and to grow others in their worship of Him. There are many others who are the same in our music ministry - very talented, amazing hearts for God and their brothers and sisters in Christ.

I say that so you don't think I have a jealous heart and that's why I'm saying what I'm saying.

Now, I am not saying that someone who is completely tone deaf is the best choice for the worship leader. To be honest, I believe we are to give God our best and that you shouldn't be leading something if that isn't where God is calling you. Being tone deaf, would be an indication to me that leading worship is probably not where God wants you.

What I'm saying is, the worship team is not a competition. It's not about who's better. It's not about a democracy. It's about GOD! It's about building one another up. It's about love. Having an amazing voice and even a heart for worship does not mean you will be a great worship leader. And being the best, doesn't mean you are the only one who should be up front. We have one gal in our music team who has a good voice, although nothing amazing and yet when she leads worship, it's amazing. Darlene Zcheck (ok, I know I spelled that wrong), is not the Hillsong worship leader because she has the best voice and there is simply no one better than her.

My goal as the soprano leader in our choir is to grow other sopranos. It's not to get all the solos because I'm "better". Being a leader doesn't mean you are always out front. In fact, a good leader will not always be out front - even if they are the "best".

When I was in college, I was a small group leader. One thing that we were pressed on all the time was to constantly have other people lead elements of the Biblestudy. Maybe they wouldn't do as "well" as we would, but they would never grow if they never were put in positions where they could be stretched and grow. If we only put the "best" out front simply because they are the "best", what happens when the "best" can no longer lead? We should be striving to be building others up in leadership and not making people dependant on us because we're "so good".

I'm not saying that just because someone has served in a ministry, that automatically means they should be moved to a position in leadership. I'm not saying that at all. There are bad attitudes on "both" sides of the fence and neither is biblical.

The fact is, a worship team is not about us. It's not about who's better. It's not about who has the most talent. It's about God. Yes, God gave us talent for a reason. Yes, I believe He gave us talent to use that talent. Yes, God desires our best. No, that does not mean we should be holding "tryouts" for who does things the best.



elastic -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:24:49 PM)

quote:

Wow! What a novel idea (sarcasm). Yeah, that would take care of 99% of the crying and jockying going on around this topic. If those who are so hurt over being passed over by "talented babies" were to start, oh say, a church parking lot sweeping ministry, or a church bathroom cleaning ministy, or a take communion to old ladies minisrty, they wouldn't have to go through the heartache of being bumped or having to "clean up the mess". There are activities out there that few want to do and no-one will ever take away.


if you read some of funny_girl's posts in the other worship leader thread, you will see that she thinks once you have been 'promoted' or are a 'seasoned' worship leader, you don't need to do any of the serving...ie cleaning bathrooms, passing out programs, etc, etc, etc.

at least that's what i took from her other postings. please correct me funny_girl if that is not what you meant to say



MusicianDad -> RE: Worship Leaders (4/18/2008 1:28:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

quote:

ORIGINAL: MusicianDad

quote:

ORIGINAL: funny_girl
...I submitted to the chorus and did whatever the worship leader asked me to do.



Wow! What a novel idea (sarcasm). Yeah, that would take care of 99% of the crying and jockying going on around this topic. If those who are so hurt over being passed over by "talented babies" were to start, oh say, a church parking lot sweeping ministry, or a church bathroom cleaning ministy, or a take communion to old ladies minisrty, they wouldn't have to go through the heartache of being bumped or having to "clean up the mess". There are activities out there that few want to do and no-one will ever take away.



Sarcasm not appreciated.
I lead worship, read music, arrange music and am proficient on several instruments. I am not whiny or jealous, but I do see the constant arrogance and snobbism that come out of so many in music ministry. I incorporate many people into the music program, and the one thing that will get you tossed rather quickly is being an arrogant jerk.


I'm not questioning your musical prowess, or your right to call the shots as a worship leader. I just think the idea of seniority due to time in sevice is wrong. I think the idea that someone has a right to be a worship leader is rediculous. Telling would-be professional musicians to stay away form leading worship is pretty reactionary (IMO). Some of what's being said here really comes off as "me first, me first, my turn!!!".



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