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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/25/2008 7:03:57 PM
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Diolectic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHequote:
ORIGINAL: Diolectic
The fact that God commanded Pharaoh to do so through Moses tells us that is what God wanted in the first place. The fact remains... God moved manipulated Pharaoh so that he would not let God's people go... Only after the fact the Pharaoh hardened his own heart.
God hardened it out of judgment of Pharaoh's own rebelion and hardening his own heart.
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Why do you insist on makeing God want people to sin? God can do as He pleases... It's His creation... Why do you insist on makeing God a sadistic tyrant?
Furthermore, Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is David's.
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The Potter did not mare the clay Himself, but the clay became marred in His hands. Either God is the Potter or He's not... Do you think God mared the clay on purpose?
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2Timothy 2:20 is telling us that we ourselves choose what kind of vessel we may be.
Co-Potters? I thought God was a jealous God? Do you think that 2Timothy 2:20 means that we are co-potters?
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/25/2008 7:11:46 PM
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Diolectic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethreadquote:
Dialectic:
However, to create sentient beings for the sole purpose of tormenting in hell other than for judgment of their own free will rebelion is not righteous, just, & good! Romans 9:21 "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? 22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory--" See my Post #: 73
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Therefore, as Adonai provides animals for our consumption, so Adonai might provide such individuals for our instruction. Pharoah might be an example of this. In conclussion to what you just posted. God is not love, and you are denying 1John 4:8,16.
Your post must conclude this because if God does not love all mankind untill they are physicaly dead, ready for judgment of His wrath, then God is not all loving and therefore, not Love.
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As to their condemnation to hell. That would be a by product and not the primary purpose. A by product of what?
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Of course that presumes one accepts the doctrine of the eturnal torment of humans. I take it that you don't.
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/25/2008 7:58:10 PM
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Ephesians4_32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Diolectic
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Therefore, as Adonai provides animals for our consumption, so Adonai might provide such individuals for our instruction. Pharoah might be an example of this. In conclussion to what you just posted. God is not love, and you are denying 1John 4:8,16.
Your post must conclude this because if God does not love all mankind untill they are physicaly dead, ready for judgment of His wrath, then God is not all loving and therefore, not Love.
Everyone is condemned already. Most will never become Christians. Few there be that find the way.
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/25/2008 8:45:07 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
Everyone is condemned already. Most will never become Christians. Few there be that find the way.
This is stated as though God planned it that way or wants it that way. But the truth is exactly the opposite.
1. Everyone is condemned already because Adam chose to disobey God. Let's not blame God the Father.
2. Most will never become Christian only because they will chose to ignore, disregard or reject the Gospel and the Lord Jesus Christ. Let's not blame Christ, the Son of God.
3. Few there be that find the way only because they will not seek the Lord and prefer darkness to light. Let's not blame the Holy Spirit.
Christ said very plainly that if He was lifted up, i.e. crucified, He would draw all men to Himself. God invites all men to come to Him. The Holy Spirit convicts and convices all who hear or read the Gospel. But there must be a response -- repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
There is not a single human being who was pre-destined to Hell. There is not a single Christian who was not elect according to foreknowledge.
God made full provision in Christ for all mankind even before Adam was created. Christ was the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. Not just for our sins (Christians) but for THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/25/2008 9:14:33 PM
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Ezra
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Romans 9:1-33
This passage continues to be misapplied and misunderstood by many Christians to the detriment of the Gospel. So what are the underlying truths which are being illustrated?
1. They are not all Israel which are of Israel (v. 6) -- which means that only those who are children of God by faith are the true Israel.
2. God's mercy is under His sovereign will (v.15) -- which means that God's mercy cannot be willed by man or earned by man. It is purely a gift of God's grace.
3. God (the Potter) has complete control over human beings (the clay), and that results in some becoming vessels unto honour and some unto dishonour (v.21). This does not by any means exempt men from responsibility, or prevent men from freely making their choices. God's sovereignty and man's free will operate together.
4. God has predestined to glory the vessels of mercy so that He might make know (eternally) the riches of His glory (and grace) (v. 23). Predestination is always according to foreknowledge ( 1 Pet. 1:2) and for the purpose of conforming the vessels of mercy into the likeness of Christ (Rom. 8:28-34). None are predestined to Heaven or to Hell. Rather, God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9).
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/25/2008 9:53:56 PM
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Diolectic
Posts: 410
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From: Iowa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezraquote:
Everyone is condemned already. Most will never become Christians. Few there be that find the way. This is stated as though God planned it that way or wants it that way. But the truth is exactly the opposite.
1. Everyone is condemned already because Adam chose to disobey God. Let's not blame God the Father.
2. Most will never become Christian only because they will chose to ignore, disregard or reject the Gospel and the Lord Jesus Christ. Let's not blame Christ, the Son of God.
3. Few there be that find the way only because they will not seek the Lord and prefer darkness to light. Let's not blame the Holy Spirit.
Christ said very plainly that if He was lifted up, i.e. crucified, He would draw all men to Himself. God invites all men to come to Him. The Holy Spirit convicts and convices all who hear or read the Gospel. But there must be a response -- repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
There is not a single human being who was pre-destined to Hell. There is not a single Christian who was not elect according to foreknowledge.
God made full provision in Christ for all mankind even before Adam was created. Christ was the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. Not just for our sins (Christians) but for THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. Amen!!! Dito...
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/25/2008 11:33:59 PM
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bob97
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Ezra...do you believe in replacement theology?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 10:31:37 AM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Ezra...do you believe in replacement theology?
Bob
The short answer is "No". In order to understand where Israel is today and where it will be in the future, one needs to study Romans 9-11.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 12:07:44 PM
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bob97
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quote:
1. They are not all Israel which are of Israel (v. 6) -- which means that only those who are children of God by faith are the true Israel.
Ezra...good, I'm glad we are in agreement but in reference to the above verse, I take the meaning to say that the House of Israel and the House of Judah are the true Israel.
It could have some meaning regarding the grafted in church but I suspect the main intent is to say that not all Jews belong to the chosen people of God (Israel).
Thats my take anyway.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 1:13:10 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
1. They are not all Israel which are of Israel (v. 6) -- which means that only those who are children of God by faith are the true Israel.
Ezra...good, I'm glad we are in agreement but in reference to the above verse, I take the meaning to say that the House of Israel and the House of Judah are the true Israel.
bob:
In the context of Romans 9-11, Paul was not concerned so much with the houses of Israel and Judah, as with the position of national Israel during the dispensation of Grace (or the Church age), and the meaning of "Israel" during this dispensation.
Israel as a nation has been blinded until the Second Coming of Christ. However there is a believing "remnant" according to the election of grace. This remnant, along with the ingrafted believing Gentiles within the Church (the Body of Christ) constitutes "true Israel" today. By the same token God does not distinguish between Jew and Gentile within the Body (Acts 10:15).
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It could have some meaning regarding the grafted in church but I suspect the main intent is to say that not all Jews belong to the chosen people of God (Israel).
This is true, but even more so is the truth that is taught here that God's mercy cannot be willed or earned by any person, and God is no respecter of persons. Jacob (Israel) was elected not because of any merit on his part but purely because of God's grace.
Jacob believed God (as did Abraham and Isaac) and it was imputed to him for righteousness. Esau did not believe God, and was therefore "hated".
Jews who believe God and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are the elect according to grace, and become vessels of mercy. Disbelieving Jews become vessels of wrath. Genuine faith in Christ (which includes repentance) divides all humanity into the lost and the saved, the goats and the sheep, the tares and the wheat, the good fish and the bad fish, the vessels of mercy and the vessels of wrath (Jn. 3:36).
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 3:30:22 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Diolectic
God hardened it out of judgment of Pharaoh's own rebelion and hardening his own heart.
God said He did what He did so Pharaoh would do something...
quote:
Why do you insist on makeing God a sadistic tyrant?
It gets worse when you consider what God did to Job...
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Furthermore, Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is David's.
So...
quote:
Do you think God mared the clay on purpose?
Sure... He's the Potter...
quote:
Do you think that 2Timothy 2:20 means that we are co-potters?
I believe that what people wish to believe because like Adam they want to be in control of things, or at least believe they are...
John
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 3:34:38 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
This is stated as though God planned it that way or wants it that way. But the truth is exactly the opposite.
God's first plan was a failure? Interesting to say the least...
John
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 3:39:01 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
2. God's mercy is under His sovereign will (v.15) -- which means that God's mercy cannot be willed by man or earned by man. It is purely a gift of God's grace.
Your view of Jacob and Esau runs over the above like a bus...
quote:
God's sovereignty and man's free will operate together.
If you really believe this you have to amend your belief that God's mercy is not merited...
John
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 5:25:32 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1963
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
This is stated as though God planned it that way or wants it that way. But the truth is exactly the opposite.
God's first plan was a failure? Interesting to say the least...
John
You misunderstand greatly. God'd first and only plan always included the offer of eternal life through Christ to all who believe on Him and repent, knowing full well that Adam would sin and that the curse of sin and death would pass upon all men (Rom. 5:12-21). This plan never pre-determined any to Heaven or to Hell. Even the history of Cain and Abel proves that.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 5:33:22 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1963
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
2. God's mercy is under His sovereign will (v.15) -- which means that God's mercy cannot be willed by man or earned by man. It is purely a gift of God's grace.
Your view of Jacob and Esau runs over the above like a bus...
Not at all. "Not of works, but of Him that calleth" applied to both Esau and Jacob. It it was not of works, it was by faith, which Esau lacked. Therefore he was not chosen.
quote:
quote:
God's sovereignty and man's free will operate together.
If you really believe this you have to amend your belief that God's mercy is not merited...
John
Once again, you greatly misunderstand. God's grace is never merited, but men must believe God in order to receive His mercy. God does not do the believing for man. "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness".
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 5:37:00 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
Not at all. "Not of works, but of Him that calleth" applied to both Esau and Jacob. It it was not of works, it was by faith, which Esau lacked. Therefore he was not chosen.
Because he didn't do something, right?
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Once again, you greatly misunderstand. God's grace is never merited, but men must believe God in order to receive His mercy. God does not do the believing for man. "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness".
If there is a BUT after, God's grace is never merited there is something wrong....
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 4/26/2008 5:58:46 PM >
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 6:13:04 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1963
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
Not at all. "Not of works, but of Him that calleth" applied to both Esau and Jacob. It it was not of works, it was by faith, which Esau lacked. Therefore he was not chosen.
Because he didn't do something, right?
No. because he did not believe God. Without faith it is impossible to please Him (Heb. 11:6).
quote:
quote:
Once again, you greatly misunderstand. God's grace is never merited, but men must believe God in order to receive His mercy. God does not do the believing for man. "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness".
If there is a BUT after, God's grace is never merited there is something wrong....
If what has been stated above is wrong, it means you never believed God, or believed the Gospel, or believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and repented of your sins. You knew from the day that you were born that you were already saved, and you did not have to do what every sinner has to do. Is that correct?
Did you have a special revelation from birth that you were already saved? Please tell us, since this is indeed a novel thing. How many others do you know who were already saved when they were born and therefore did not have to respond to the Gospel?
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 6:23:29 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
No. because he did not believe God.
Not believing in God is not doing something, right?
quote:
If what has been stated above is wrong, it means you never believed God,...
What means is that you says God's grace isn't merited, BUT you can't stop there and you contradict yourself by adding something about man...
John
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 6:24:05 PM
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Diolectic
Posts: 410
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Iowa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHequote:
ORIGINAL: Diolectic
God hardened it out of judgment of Pharaoh's own rebelion and hardening his own heart. God said He did what He did so Pharaoh would do something... Huh?
quote:
quote:
Why do you insist on makeing God a sadistic tyrant? It gets worse when you consider what God did to Job... Satan did those to Job.
Why do you malign God?
Do you purposfuly want to present a sadistic tyrant as the god you worship?
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quote:
Do you think God mared the clay on purpose? Sure... He's the Potter... So, you actualy think that God made Israel disobey(unless you don't understand the context of Jer 18:2-6).
So, you actualy think that God causes people to sin.
So, you actualy think that God creates & wants most of His creation to be tormented in hell.
So, you actualy think that God's sovereignty means ultimate cause of every thing and ultimatl controler every thing. (when in fact, God's sovereignty means ultimate authority of every thing)
So, you actualy think that God deceptivly manipulates by comanding one thing and wanting another?
Example:
God commands Adam to not eat of the tree, but in reality, God wanted Adam to eat of the tree and caused him to do it.
You think this because God always gets what HE wants and absolutly nothing is out of God's will, He controls every thing and causes all things;
God is the animater of all creation, no one is a free agent, they are all pre-writen programs, pupets, robots...ect...(so to speek) that only do what is inevitably going to happen and take place because it is all set in to order by God's will.
You most likly think that God wills rape.
According to your view, if some one rapes your wife(God forbid) you'de think that God wanted him to.
How could you sanely live with that?
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quote:
Do you think that 2Timothy 2:20 means that we are co-potters? I believe that what people wish to believe because like Adam they want to be in control of things, or at least believe they are... Lets get this in context.
2Tim 2:20-21 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor, and some to dishonor.
:21 If a man therefore purifies himself from these, he will be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and fit for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
It clearly tells us that we are to volitionally purify our selves.
We must choose to obey, God will not make us.
However, if one does, he will not be a vessel to dishonor any more.
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 6:39:39 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2870
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Diolectic
Huh?
God moved Pharaoh to... not to let His people go, and to chase after His people...
quote:
Satan did those to Job.
And who controlled what happened? Satan? Who lifted the protection?
If you don't believe God didn't have a purpose behind all this why did He do it? For kicks?
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Why do you malign God?
Why do you renouce the fact He's in charge?
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Do you purposfuly want to present a sadistic tyrant as the god you worship?
Do you purposefully want to present a god that is really nothing more than heavenly bellhop awaiting the next order from what He created?
quote:
So, you actualy think that God deceptivly manipulates by comanding one thing and wanting another?
Example:
Exodus 10:20 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.
quote:
God is the animater of all creation, no one is a free agent, they are all pre-writen programs, pupets, robots...ect...(so to speek) that only do what is inevitably going to happen and take place because it is all set in to order by God's will.
Do you believe that Satan can win? In other words, that God can lose?
quote:
It clearly tells us that we are to volitionally purify our selves.
From what does man purify himself? What does man have within himself to do such a thing?
John
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 6:50:52 PM
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Diolectic
Posts: 410
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Iowa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe?quote:
quote:
quote:
God's grace is never merited, but men must believe God in order to receive His mercy. If there is a BUT after, God's grace is never merited there is something wrong.... If what has been stated above is wrong, it means you never believed God,... What means is that you says God's grace isn't merited, BUT you can't stop there and you contradict yourself by adding something about man... Jer 23:6b & 33:16b THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
God's grace is never merited BUTFaith is a channel or conduit for righteousness to be accounted to us?
If rightousness = right standing with GOD, then faith is also our justification (in order) to be in right standing with HIM.
God is justified in making us righteous because of our faith.
If we didn't have faith(believ and/or agree to) in Christ, God would not be justified in accounting us as righteous. In other words, God would have no grounds to give us right standing with HIM.
All this is because with out faith, we woud be denying God.
The Object of our faith(Jesus) is our rightousness and rightousness is our standing or position with God because of our faith(agreement with God).
We are in Christ of whom is our Righteousness. In Christ is our standing or position with God the Father.
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 7:33:13 PM
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Diolectic
Posts: 410
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Iowa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHeGod moved Pharaoh to... not to let His people go, and to chase after His people... After He commanded him to let HIS people go.
God did not move Pharaoh to, God judged him by hardening his heart after he did it himself.
I've explained this a few times already, are you ignoring that?
quote:
quote:
Satan did those to Job. And who controlled what happened? Satan? Who lifted the protection?
If you don't believe God didn't have a purpose behind all this why did He do it? For kicks? God always had boundries for satan.
All that God allowed satan to to was to proove to satan what God already said.
However, according to you, God made satan do all that he did becaus God is the ultimate cause of every thing and controls every thing and thought.
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quote:
Why do you malign God? Why do you renouce the fact He's in charge? So, you think God wants and causes all sin.
I beg you, do not attemt to console a greiving person who lost an unsaved one.
You would probly tell them that God wanted them in hell, He hated them before they were born.
God didn't want to save them and they are in hell because that is what they are created for.
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quote:
Do you purposfuly want to present a sadistic tyrant as the god you worship? Do you purposefully want to present a god that is really nothing more than heavenly bellhop awaiting the next order from what He created? Why do you think that is what I believe?
no one commands God to do anything. We only must submit to His commands(Act 17:30).
When we humble ourselves under Him, and repent, He will forgive us only if we ask Him to.
Then He will show us how to consistantly obey all His commands.
You don't deny that you think God is a sadiustic tyrant.
Hhmmm.
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quote:
So, you actualy think that God deceptivly manipulates by comanding one thing and wanting another? Exodus 10:20 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go. 1Sam 6:6 Why then do you harden your hearts, as the Egyptians and Pharaoh hardened their hearts? when he had worked wonderfully among them, did they not let the people go, and they departed?
Here, this Scripture actually say that Pharaoh hardened his heart and that God didn't.
Why didn't this Scripture say that God did it?
PHARAOH HARDENED HIS OWN HEART FIRST...
If God hardened Pharaoh's heart, the Scripture would be specific about God doing the hardening as the Scriptures do.
1. And Pharaoh's heart grew hard (chazaq), and he did not heed
them, as the Lord had said. - Exo 7:13
2. So the Lord said to Moses: "Pharaoh's heart is hard (kabed); he
refuses to let the people go." - Exo 7:14
3. Then the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments; and
Pharaoh's heart grew hard (chazaq), and he did not heed them,
as the Lord had said. - Exo 7:22
4. But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened (kabed)
his heart and did not heed them, as the Lord had said. - Exo 8:15
5. Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of
God." But Pharaoh's heart grew hard (chazaq), and he did not
heed them, just as the Lord had said. - Exo 8:19
6. But Pharaoh hardened (kabed) his heart at this time also;
neither would he let the people go. - Exo 8:32
7. Then Pharaoh sent, and indeed, not even one of the livestock of
the Israelites was dead. But the heart of Pharaoh became hard
(kabed), and he did not let the people go. - Exo 9:7
THEN GOD HARDENED PHARAOH'S HEART...
-- Not until the sixth plague did God begin to harden Pharaoh's heart
1.[/B] But the Lord hardened (chazaq) the heart of Pharaoh; and he did
not heed them, just as the Lord had spoken to Moses. - Exo 9:12
2. Now the Lord said to Moses, "Go in to Pharaoh; for I have
hardened (kabed) his heart and the hearts of his servants, that
I may show these signs of Mine before him," - Exo 10:1
3. But the Lord hardened (chazaq) Pharaoh's heart, and he did not
let the children of Israel go.- Exo 10:20
4. But the Lord hardened (chazaq) Pharaoh's heart, and he would not let
them go.- Exo 10:27
5. So Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh; and
the Lord hardened (chazaq) Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let
the children of Israel go out of his land. - Exo 11:10
6. Then I will harden (chazaq) Pharaoh's heart, so that he will
pursue them; and I will gain honor over Pharaoh and over all
his army, that the Egyptians may know that I am the Lord.
- Exo 14:4
7. And the Lord hardened (chazaq) the heart of Pharaoh king of
Egypt, and he pursued the children of Israel; and the children
of Israel went out with boldness. - Exo 14:8
8. And I indeed will harden (chazaq) the hearts of the Egyptians,
and they shall follow them. So I will gain honor over Pharaoh
and over all his army, his chariots, and his horsemen. - Exo
14:17
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God is the animater of all creation, no one is a free agent, they are all pre-writen programs, pupets, robots...ect...(so to speek) that only do what is inevitably going to happen and take place because it is all set in to order by God's will. Do you believe that Satan can win? In other words, that God can lose? God is confident in His Own Sovereignty that He can give men control of their own choices and actions.
Futhermore, God looses souls to satan every day, however, in the end God is Triumphant!
God may loose battles, but HE will win the war.
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It clearly tells us that we are to volitionally purify our selves. From what does man purify himself? By obeying the command to repent(Act 17:30) and put their faith in HIS blood to cleans them from all sin.
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What does man have within himself to do such a thing? A will, concience, knowledge of right and wrong...ect...
An ability to obey the command!
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 7:42:28 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3191
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
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What does man have within himself to do such a thing? A will, concience, knowledge of right and wrong...ect...
An ability to obey the command! I call it being created in God's Image!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 8:53:19 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2870
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: Diolectic
God's grace is never merited BUTFaith is a channel or conduit for righteousness to be accounted to us?
Faith is just one of the EVERYTHING that God grants us...
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If rightousness = right standing with GOD, then faith is also our justification (in order) to be in right standing with HIM.
God is justified in making us righteous because of our faith.
If we didn't have faith(believ and/or agree to) in Christ, God would not be justified in accounting us as righteous. In other words, God would have no grounds to give us right standing with HIM.
All this is because with out faith, we woud be denying God.
The Object of our faith(Jesus) is our rightousness and rightousness is our standing or position with God because of our faith(agreement with God).
We are in Christ of whom is our Righteousness. In Christ is our standing or position with God the Father.
Christ is the only reason we justified...
John
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RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? - 4/26/2008 9:09:52 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2870
Joined: 4/15/2005
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