Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (Full Version)

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Ephesians4_32 -> Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/17/2008 10:33:56 PM)

Romans 9
21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

2 Timothy 2
19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

1 Thessalonians 4
1Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

2For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

3For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

4That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
Or does man do the work of a potter?



drmark -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/17/2008 11:08:20 PM)

I really am not sure what the OP refers to here. Because 1 Thess 4:1-4 is a great Holiness passage, I will make a simple comment on it. I believe this verse (and many others) point out the "partnership" we have with the Lord in living in Christ-like love and obedience every day. God provides the grace and power to sanctify us in Christian perfection, yet we must fulfill our role by growing more like Him in whatever pottery style God chooses to mold us.



abraxas -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/18/2008 12:38:50 AM)

Perhaps. It could be that this life is a "refiner's fire" and God knew that to produce one billion unto honor required another five billion dishonorable ones, in order to create the proper environment to produce that honorable billion. Then again, why resurrect that necessary but dishonorable five billion unto eternal torment? (Thinking aloud here)



TheoJunkie -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/18/2008 7:34:38 AM)

God is the potter.

We assent (actively agree) to the changes he is making in us, the clay. But he makes the changes.



URForgiven -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/18/2008 9:36:55 AM)

Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use?

I should think that the vast majority of pots are rather common. Common in mans mind, but never common in Gods.



1love1God1way -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/18/2008 1:54:08 PM)

I think Jeremiah 18 has a unique take on the Potter and the Clay. . .

It shows that perhaps the clay has some say in the outcome. . .

quote:

1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 “Arise and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause you to hear My words.” 3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.
5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?” says the LORD. “Look, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.



LCannon -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/18/2008 2:09:51 PM)

Romans 9:20-"It’s selfish to assume life experience will proceed in our limited imagination 21 for a creator molds vessels designed for a specific use. 22 Some are designed to show even the Glory of God, some to be used and used up, to illuminate and make His Glory known in endurance with patience in wrath prepared for destruction. 23 He does so and makes the riches of His Glory vessels of His obedience which He prepared in advance for that very purpose. 24 This inheritance is universal for all men are born selfish and in need of salvation."



Diolectic -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/18/2008 2:54:03 PM)

Romans 9:21-23 Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?
:22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared unto glory,
This refers to:

Co-text:
Jer 18:2-6 Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause you to hear my words.
:3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and, behold, he worked a work on the wheels.
:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
:5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? says the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel.

The Potter did not mare the clay Himself, but the clay became marred in His hands.
The Potter(God) did all HE could do to keep the clay(Israel) from being marred. He sent Jeremiah(along with all the other prophets) and the clay(Israel) rebelled anyway.
Therefore, the Potter hand to reform the clay into a new vessel in judgment.

Israel was warned to repent and they did not, that is the clay being marred.
God sent them to Babylon because of there repentance, this is the clay being reformed in judgment.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/18/2008 6:52:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

I think Jeremiah 18 has a unique take on the Potter and the Clay. . .

It shows that perhaps the clay has some say in the outcome. . .

quote:

1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 “Arise and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause you to hear My words.” 3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make.
5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 6 “O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?” says the LORD. “Look, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.



I like that.

Jeremiah 13
23Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

To the rest of you, I'll come back after I'm more rested. I'm nearly brain dead at the moment. [8|]



Bluethread -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/18/2008 7:28:04 PM)

I believe that for the most part those who are unacceptable to Adonai are cast into the potter's field unfit for use, though the Scriptures do say that Adonai used various blasphemious rulers correct us in times past.

Those who are acceptable but unapproved, not having studied or practiced, would be for common use, able to perform minor mitzvot(good deeds).

Those who have been refined by discipline, study and experience are for honorable use, bringing great blessing to the community of believers.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/18/2008 9:22:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LCannon

Romans 9:20-"It’s selfish to assume life experience will proceed in our limited imagination 21 for a creator molds vessels designed for a specific use. 22 Some are designed to show even the Glory of God, some to be used and used up, to illuminate and make His Glory known in endurance with patience in wrath prepared for destruction. 23 He does so and makes the riches of His Glory vessels of His obedience which He prepared in advance for that very purpose. 24 This inheritance is universal for all men are born selfish and in need of salvation."


Is this an actual translation or is it from your imagination? Are you a universalist?

Romans 9 KJV
20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?



bob97 -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/18/2008 10:58:35 PM)

quote:

Romans 9:20-"It’s selfish to assume life experience will proceed in our limited imagination 21 for a creator molds vessels designed for a specific use. 22 Some are designed to show even the Glory of God, some to be used and used up, to illuminate and make His Glory known in endurance with patience in wrath prepared for destruction. 23 He does so and makes the riches of His Glory vessels of His obedience which He prepared in advance for that very purpose. 24 This inheritance is universal for all men are born selfish and in need of salvation."


Are you writing your own bible?

Young's is about as close as it gets...

9:20 nay, but, O man, who are you that are answering again to God? shall the thing formed say to Him who did form [it], Why me did you make thus? 9:21 has not the potter authority over the clay, out of the same lump to make the one vessel to honour, and the one to dishonour? 9:22 And if God, willing to show the wrath and to make known His power, did endure, in much long suffering, vessels of wrath fitted for destruction, 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of kindness, that He before prepared for glory, whom also He did call -- us -- 9:24 not only out of Jews, but also out of nations,

Bob



bob97 -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/18/2008 11:22:32 PM)

Jeremiah 18 talks of the reforming of a nation...not of individuals…there is a difference and the two cannot be compared.

Bob



Mannamuncher -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/19/2008 9:54:55 AM)

I don't know if the emphasis is on vessels

fitted for salvation or God given abilities.



Certainly more of us are ordinary, everyday folk

and not EXTRAordinary. God uses us like we use

the everyday dishes and flatware. God also has

the fine china and the good silverware in his house.




2 Timothy 2:20-21 (King James Version)
20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.




Similarly, we are told how God uses us in 1 Corinthians-




1 Corinthians 1:26-29 (King James Version)
26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29That no flesh should glory in his presence.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/19/2008 5:56:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher

I don't know if the emphasis is on vessels

fitted for salvation or God given abilities.



Certainly more of us are ordinary, everyday folk

and not EXTRAordinary. God uses us like we use

the everyday dishes and flatware. God also has

the fine china and the good silverware in his house.



But only the vessels of honor are fit to be used.


2 Timothy 2:21
21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.



drmark -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/19/2008 7:07:22 PM)

quote:

2 Timothy 2:21 - If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
So would everyone agree with 1love1God1way that "perhaps the clay has some say in the outcome" given Paul's statement to "purge ourselves from these"?



Mannamuncher -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/20/2008 9:55:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32

But only the vessels of honor are fit to be used.


2 Timothy 2:21
21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Hello Sister E !

2 Timothy 2:20 (New King James Version)
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.



I am looking at another verse I guess...

What is "the house" ?...God's house ?

Can God use his children dishonorably ?



As for commonality...most of us are common.

Not many are Moses, David, or Elijah.

These men were/are EXTRAordinary !



God makes and places everyone as He pleases.

God uses EVERYONE according to His purpose.

Even Judas was predestined to betray Christ Jesus.



URForgiven -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/20/2008 11:52:21 PM)

Any old cracked pot will do.

God does not need your ability, just your availability.



drmark -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/21/2008 1:33:22 PM)

quote:

God does not need your ability, just your availability.
And availability requires free will and personal choice? Is that what I'm hearing?



URForgiven -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/21/2008 1:48:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

God does not need your ability, just your availability.
And availability requires free will and personal choice? Is that what I'm hearing?


Call it what you will, I care little for labels. It's all just truth for me.



drmark -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/21/2008 2:23:21 PM)

quote:

Call it what you will, I care little for labels. It's all just truth for me.
What is truth when you're unwilling to define it, URF? Lots of folks are using shoddy "labels" on these forums and have not the foggiest idea what they're talking about. That bothers me - apparently you don't care.



URForgiven -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/21/2008 2:47:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

Call it what you will, I care little for labels. It's all just truth for me.
What is truth when you're unwilling to define it, URF? Lots of folks are using shoddy "labels" on these forums and have not the foggiest idea what they're talking about. That bothers me - apparently you don't care.


I believe I have defined truth. I am sorry if it does not fit neatly into one of your pre-programmed categories.

Are you asking if I care that it bothers you? For I am sorry if it does.

Or are you asking if I care that there are shoddy labels on these forums? For, as I have already stated I care little for labels of any kind. Peace.



drmark -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/21/2008 3:19:53 PM)

quote:

Are you asking if I care that it bothers you? For I am sorry if it does.
You would be much better served caring about the use of shoddy labels to define truth on a Christian discussion forum than caring over what bothers me about whom you know almost nothing. Truth.



URForgiven -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/21/2008 3:58:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

Are you asking if I care that it bothers you? For I am sorry if it does.
You would be much better served caring about the use of shoddy labels to define truth on a Christian discussion forum than caring over what bothers me about whom you know almost nothing. Truth.


You are my Brother in Christ no? How is the world to know us if we do not care for each other? Or better still, to love each other.



drmark -> RE: Does the Potter Make Some Pottery for Common Use? (4/21/2008 4:06:30 PM)

Precisely my point, URF! The world needs Truth, not observations of perceived caring about others whom we don't even know. You cannot love me or care for me through an electronic discussion board (other than to show common courtesy and respect, which you have). You can, however, uphold, explain, and share the truth, when it is properly defined. That is what better serves the world, in my opinion!



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