RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (Full Version)

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colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 2:05:48 PM)

We cannot drill off the coast of Florida, but Castro/Chavez can thanks to RINO governor Crist.



deborlie -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 2:44:30 PM)

Aaaaaah yes, and don't forget the stock holders hold on us in all of this.



colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 3:33:17 PM)

quote:


Aaaaaah yes, and don't forget the stock holders hold on us in all of this.


And this IS bad? Don't forget that pension funds for retired school teachers come from those evil oil companies. With mutual funds, over 50% of Americans have some holdings in the stock market. It is just the other 50% that are too dumb to understand this fact.



rlj -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 6:04:17 PM)

No cap on gas prices I want the economy thoroughly and irrefutably as low as it can go in time for the November elections so I can gloat about the result. ; )



StephK -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 6:16:02 PM)

The whacked out environmentalists have to take some blame here. Their faulty global warming science is a big part of the problem for our dependence on foreign oil.



Stratplayer -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 6:31:00 PM)

Cap gas prices? Sounds good on the surface, but the consequences would far outweigh the potential benefits. It's a bit tough when more and more of your money is going towards filling up your tank, but as someone stated earlier; this too shall pass.....and the sooner it does, the better. I am still baffled that the oil companies can sit there and justify their record high profit levels, yet they say "we're feeling the pinch too". But then oil companies are in business to make money and if they have not done anything illegal (and it 'appears' that they have not); what can you do? It would be nice if they decided "hey, lets make things easy for Joe Consumber and reduce our profit margins since we are doing so well", but you'd have a better change of winning the PowerBall twice before that happens.



rlj -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 6:39:12 PM)

quote:

The whacked out environmentalists have to take some blame here. Their faulty global warming science is a big part of the problem for our dependence on foreign oil.


The EPA to. A big problem with our gas prices is all of the different grades of gas the EPA mandates which forces the refineries to make several different types of gas. I remember reading a few years back that a refinery in Joliet Illinois couldn't ship gas to Chicago because of EPA restrictions on the mix of fuel.



StephK -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 7:38:09 PM)

The EPA is the agency that kowtows to the whackos. There are some necessary duties of the EPA like making sure the industries don't dump their toxic wastes in the water supply and land but there needs to be some common sense applied to this issue. We do need to focus on alternatives and better technologies but it should be based on sound science not the greenies fear mongering.



saraimay75 -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 8:25:42 PM)

I live in Hawaii gas on Maui hit $4.00 in mid-March and is now OVER $4.00 in some places on Maui.



rlj -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 8:33:01 PM)

quote:

The EPA is the agency that kowtows to the whackos. There are some necessary duties of the EPA like making sure the industries don't dump their toxic wastes in the water supply and land but there needs to be some common sense applied to this issue. We do need to focus on alternatives and better technologies but it should be based on sound science not the greenies fear mongering.


Quite true. I come from the land of the Flaming River aka near the Cuyahoga River in Ohio. We're well aware that the EPA does serve a legit purpose when it isn't kowtowing like you say. ; )

The thing to remember about the EPA though is if they didn't complain about pollution, if they actually started congratulating themselves and talked about what a good and effective agency they were they'd lose money. The EPA will never succeed in its goal because for each success it loses money. For each crisis or problem that it can manufacture with its data analysis it gets more. The nature of a government funded beast. : /



GroupW -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 8:38:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter

And, the ridiculous food prices surfacing right now have much more to do with the federally-subsidized foolishness known as ethanol. Lesson one from the 21st century, don't burn food for energy.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds this utterly stupid. Here in CO, we've got bazillions of dead trees that could all be converted into cellulosic ethanol. I guess we are supposed to burn the food and eat the trees?



Stratplayer -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 8:51:50 PM)

And then there's this bit of news from OPEC. Why can't we just supply our own oil?



StephK -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 9:02:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rlj

quote:

The EPA is the agency that kowtows to the whackos. There are some necessary duties of the EPA like making sure the industries don't dump their toxic wastes in the water supply and land but there needs to be some common sense applied to this issue. We do need to focus on alternatives and better technologies but it should be based on sound science not the greenies fear mongering.


Quite true. I come from the land of the Flaming River aka near the Cuyahoga River in Ohio. We're well aware that the EPA does serve a legit purpose when it isn't kowtowing like you say. ; )

The thing to remember about the EPA though is if they didn't complain about pollution, if they actually started congratulating themselves and talked about what a good and effective agency they were they'd lose money. The EPA will never succeed in its goal because for each success it loses money. For each crisis or problem that it can manufacture with its data analysis it gets more. The nature of a government funded beast. : /


Believe me I do understand more than you know. I inherited property that has industrial leases. It's on one of the most contaminated estuaries in the nation where the most expensive EPA study was done to prove the contamination. Conoco/Philips and Citgo are two of the culprits for the contamination. Citgo had an oil spill last year and they waited two days to report it to the EPA. By the time it was reported major damage was done. Had they not been so late in reporting the costs to clean up would have been much cheaper. That's the problem, the technology is there to protect the environment but they don't put it in place. So when they get caught it costs them $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ which gets passed down to the consumer.



StephK -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 9:05:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GroupW

quote:

ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter

And, the ridiculous food prices surfacing right now have much more to do with the federally-subsidized foolishness known as ethanol. Lesson one from the 21st century, don't burn food for energy.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds this utterly stupid. Here in CO, we've got bazillions of dead trees that could all be converted into cellulosic ethanol. I guess we are supposed to burn the food and eat the trees?


There are alternatives to food sources that could be used but they don't have the farm lobby behind them. [:'(]



StephK -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 9:09:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stratplayer

And then there's this bit of news from OPEC. Why can't we just supply our own oil?


It would mess up the pristine views. [8|]



colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 9:48:13 PM)

The environmentalist wackos run the aslyum. Here in Raleigh, they managed to create a park where no human can set foot. They want to set up a butterfly park and set up video cameras so individuals can log in from their home to watch the butterflies.



Stratplayer -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 10:41:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stratplayer

And then there's this bit of news from OPEC. Why can't we just supply our own oil?


It would mess up the pristine views. [8|]




Well: If paying out the nose to put gas in my car so I can get to work will also preserve some pristine views and save a few butterflies, then I'm so happy to be able to make my weekly contribution to this noble cause[sm=crazy.gif]!!!



StephK -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 11:00:41 PM)

I'm all for conservation but not this stupidity.


ENVIROMENTAL
RADICAL GREENS HARM THE EARTH MORE THAN THEY HELP

snip to pertinent parts

The current biofuel craze is another case in point. Greens have long favored government mandates to convert corn into motor fuel. They claim this will cut into our supposed addiction to oil, while minimizing harmful greenhouse gas emissions from our tailpipes. The Greens got their wish, and in recent years Congress has ordered billions of gallons of ethanol to be introduced into our fuel supply. European nations have passed similar biofuel mandates to fight global warming.

The result, by almost any account, has been a fiasco. Pouring corn into our gas tanks has led to a spike in food prices worldwide. Those high prices have caused food shortages and even riots in other countries (several in just the last month). While people starve, biofuels are creating an environmental disaster as well. In places like Indonesia, forestland is being cleared at alarming rates in order to plant palm oil crops and cash in on the artificial demand for biofuels. The result is a holocaust for many endangered animals. "The orangutan is being crucified on a cross of green," Murray notes.



GroupW -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/20/2008 11:18:12 PM)

Interestingly enough, this whole mess is putting a fair number of grain elevators/grain merchandisers out of business. The higher prices go, the more cash the elevators have to put up to collateralize their outstanding commodities transactions to hedge their contracts with farmers. They are rapidly running out of cash.

Seems odd - the higher prices go, the more the elevators get hurt.

More evidence for the Law of Unintended Consequences.

So prices are up, but a fair number of farmers can't take advantage of it and lock in today's prices because their local merchandiser is out of cash.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/21/2008 1:16:23 AM)

quote:

They want to set up a butterfly park and set up video cameras so individuals can log in from their home to watch the butterflies.


It would be immensly more interesting to set up a park, put the enviromental wackos in it with video and watch them from home.



Leslie_JnJs_mom -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/21/2008 11:30:49 AM)

quote:

Well: If paying out the nose to put gas in my car so I can get to work will also preserve some pristine views and save a few butterflies, then I'm so happy to be able to make my weekly contribution to this noble cause !!!



[;)]



HighPlainsDrifter -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/21/2008 12:08:12 PM)

quote:

Interestingly enough, this whole mess is putting a fair number of grain elevators/grain merchandisers out of business. The higher prices go, the more cash the elevators have to put up to collateralize their outstanding commodities transactions to hedge their contracts with farmers. They are rapidly running out of cash.

Seems odd - the higher prices go, the more the elevators get hurt.

More evidence for the Law of Unintended Consequences.

So prices are up, but a fair number of farmers can't take advantage of it and lock in today's prices because their local merchandiser is out of cash.


That's just the tip of the economic iceberg. Ethanol will have the net effect of bringing violent revolution in some countries. The global index on the price of food is up 80% over last year and although we have the wealth to absorb these costs in this country, many others don't. Even here, though, look for the price of a steak to triple in 18 months. Corn is an essential building block on which much of the world's economy rests, and when the price of it triples, in concert with high oil prices, we're talking a significant risk of global depression and famine. The kicker is, it doesn't even pay for itself, the industry only survives because the feds subsidize it.



blessedinnyc -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/21/2008 12:58:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter

That's just the tip of the economic iceberg. Ethanol will have the net effect of bringing violent revolution in some countries. The global index on the price of food is up 80% over last year and although we have the wealth to absorb these costs in this country, many others don't. Even here, though, look for the price of a steak to triple in 18 months. Corn is an essential building block on which much of the world's economy rests, and when the price of it triples, in concert with high oil prices, we're talking a significant risk of global depression and famine. The kicker is, it doesn't even pay for itself, the industry only survives because the feds subsidize it.

_____________________________

Stop Senseless Mullet Hate


Actually, we're looking at worldwide inflation- not a depression.

Meanwhile, high corn prices are great news for the US- and ultimately, the US dollar. By taking the supply of an inelastic commodity off the market, we can raise prices and thereby get more for our exports. This ultimately strengthens the US economy at the expense of our economic rivals (China, Russia, the Middle East, and Venezuela).

Even if biofuels are a net economic loser, they are a net winner for the US Dollar, so the subsidies make sense for the Fed.



HighPlainsDrifter -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/21/2008 1:17:12 PM)

quote:


Actually, we're looking at worldwide inflation- not a depression.

Meanwhile, high corn prices are great news for the US- and ultimately, the US dollar. By taking the supply of an inelastic commodity off the market, we can raise prices and thereby get more for our exports. This ultimately strengthens the US economy at the expense of our economic rivals (China, Russia, the Middle East, and Venezuela).

Even if biofuels are a net economic loser, they are a net winner for the US Dollar, so the subsidies make sense for the Fed.


Currently, we're in a trend of taking acres normally planted to oats, wheat, potatoes, barley and all other major crops and converting them into corn acres. This will increase the base price of ALL cereal grains, all meats, and all other food-related commodities. This isn't simple inflation, this is market-enforced scarcity of food staples. There's is a glut of beef making it's way through the market right now due to reduction of herds country-wide, and once that glut is through, look for beef, chicken, and pork prices to absolutely skyrocket. This isn't going to happen in a vacuum. This is a short-term winner ethanol-producers and farmers, but a loser for everyone that happens to eat or pay taxes. It's also a net loser for anyone who thinks watershed quality and natural habitat is important as acres that have been untilled for a couple of generations go back under a plow. I spent dinner Saturday night with a friend who who studied Ag Economics alongside me in the 80's and who is also a corn farmer, who is tilling prairie right now that hasn't been used for row crops in 50 years. He's sold the cattle that used to roam there because corn is far too expensive to waste on cattle.



StephK -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/21/2008 2:58:45 PM)

High Plains, that's not good. [&o]



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