RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (Full Version)

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ToolmanUF -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 2:13:32 PM)

Most people think I'm crazy when I say this, but I think that the rise in gas prices is a good thing, in the long term interest of the country. I think the rise in gas should be a wake up call.

Eventually the United States will have to develop other ways of transportation so that the country is not so dependent on personal automobile transportation. It should have done this a LONG time ago, and we are way behind the times when you compare other industrial nations such as most European countries and Japan.

Americans don't seem to understand the importance of creating a more sustainable, environmentaly friendly transportation system. So, if the rise in gas starts to make driving all the time untenable, then American cities might reconsider building more efficient public transportation systems, companies might start develop alternative forms of fuel, and Americans might drive less and/or regulate their driving by carpooling, using high occupancy vehicle traffic lanes, and other strategies.



colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 3:29:34 PM)

quote:


So, if the rise in gas starts to make driving all the time untenable


for WHOM? The poor and the middle-class? And how do you propose food get from the farm to the market? By mass transit? Just load up the cows on the el and then get to the slaughter-houses. Have the bakery right by the farm and then load up the bread ad cakes on the busus. But how do you propose growing sugar in Iowa? UF is just a another liberal indoctrination school such as UNC. It looks as if your brain has been saturated by the lies taught there.



blessedinnyc -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 6:06:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:


So, if the rise in gas starts to make driving all the time untenable


for WHOM? The poor and the middle-class? And how do you propose food get from the farm to the market? By mass transit? Just load up the cows on the el and then get to the slaughter-houses. Have the bakery right by the farm and then load up the bread ad cakes on the busus. But how do you propose growing sugar in Iowa? UF is just a another liberal indoctrination school such as UNC. It looks as if your brain has been saturated by the lies taught there.

How about just regular freight trains? They're about eight times more diesel-efficient, relative to weight shipped, than trucks.

Over the past 20 years, a lot of rail lines have shut down. We might want to consider reopening some of these lines. Perhaps federal highway funding can also go to restart closed lines and electrify others.



tracydolls -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 6:21:07 PM)

quote:

Don't forget a number of people exist on pensions derived from oil company profits. From a world-wide basis, that profit is not excessive. Why is it that a movie company, a recording company can make a profit and no one bats an eye. Each time you hear a Beatle's song in background music or on the radio, money goes into Michael Jackson's pocket, And no one is complaining on the profit he makes for doing nothing.



Because I don't have to buy a Beatle song everyday, I have to buy gas, and one doing it don't make it ok for the next one to do it.

quote:

And it will get even bigger should Barry or Hill get into the Oval Office. John will do nothing other than to keep things status quo.



If John keeps Bush going, it will get bigger, Bush spent far more than Bill Clinton.


No one should make 9 billion dollars profits in 3 months. Profits are after employess have been paid, after overhead. It's pure GREED.


Most Americans need to get off they fat butts and walk more. Also when you look at where the oil is coming from , how do you jusify it really.

Iran
Nigeria
Venezuala
Saudi Arabia
Iraq



colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 6:39:59 PM)

quote:

How about just regular freight trains? They're about eight times more diesel-efficient, relative to weight shipped, than trucks


OK, how do we get the cows from the farm, to the slaughterhousem from the slaughterhouse to the train station, and from the train station to the various supermarkets. Add into the mix wheat, corn, and rice to the various plants and supermarkets. We need fuel and relying on the choo-choo train for all the needed transportation isn't going to cut it.



blessedinnyc -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 6:41:58 PM)

quote:


for WHOM? The poor and the middle-class? And how do you propose food get from the farm to the market? By mass transit? Just load up the cows on the el and then get to the slaughter-houses. Have the bakery right by the farm and then load up the bread ad cakes on the busus. But how do you propose growing sugar in Iowa? UF is just a another liberal indoctrination school such as UNC. It looks as if your brain has been saturated by the lies taught there.

You have gone around accusing a lot of things of being liberal (PBS, UF, anyone who disagrees with the government, etc.) without really understanding the issues or even what you're attacking, in many cases.

It appears that you are defining "liberal" as being educated about the objective facts surrounding an issue. If that is the case, I think that UF and UNC should be honored to bear the title "liberal"- it means they understand the facts.



colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 6:42:51 PM)

quote:

Most Americans need to get off they fat butts and walk more. Also when you look at where the oil is coming from , how do you jusify it really.

Iran
Nigeria
Venezuala
Saudi Arabia
Iraq


and look where it can come from:

ANWAR
off the coast of Florida and east coast of US
shale oil


and why is Venezuala drilling off the coast of Florida and we can't



blessedinnyc -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 6:46:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan
OK, how do we get the cows from the farm, to the slaughterhousem from the slaughterhouse to the train station, and from the train station to the various supermarkets. Add into the mix wheat, corn, and rice to the various plants and supermarkets. We need fuel and relying on the choo-choo train for all the needed transportation isn't going to cut it.

Most factories for processing a lot of stuff usually have railroad tracks connecting them- certainly anything built over 25 years ago. Indeed, 50 years ago, we were able to easily feed roughly 2/3rds of the country's population without the need for interstates.

At the very least, cross-country trucking no longer makes sense.



colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 6:47:14 PM)

quote:

No one should make 9 billion dollars profits in 3 months. Profits are after employess have been paid, after overhead. It's pure GREED.


OK, back to basic economics

PROFIT-LOSS=Stock Holders Equity

How do you say it is GREED for a private company to make a profit and when the Government makes a profit for investing no money and doing nothing to earn it is GOOD?



blessedinnyc -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 6:52:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan
ANWAR

ANWAR has maybe 10 billion barrels of oil if we're being optimistic. This would be enough to last the US a little under a year and a half. Meanwhile, most of the countries that supply us with oil have about ten times that amount.

Edit: corrected typo.

I'm not saying we shouldn't drill in ANWAR, but I do think that it's not really smart to compare its reserves to Venezuela's.

quote:

off the coast of Florida and east coast of US

I think it's the same deal with this oil. I will say that if we have oil platforms off the coast of liberal California, drilling for oil on the East Coast should be more politically feasible.

quote:

shale oil

True, CO has a lot of energy buried in Shale, but it produces a lot of caustic stuff that takes up more volume than the shale it was mined from. Do we really want to permanently turn the state of Colorado into a pH-13 wasteland for maybe a decade's worth of oil?

A much easier solution would be nuclear.


quote:

and why is Venezuala drilling off the coast of Florida and we can't

Actually, that would be Cuba, and we have a treaty with them about who controls which oilfields.



colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 6:56:27 PM)

quote:

I think that UF and UNC should be honored to bear the title "liberal"- it means they understand the facts.


Facts=Truth These are lies to spin their view that government is the all and be all of life. There are almost no conservative profs at UNC. So much for presenting a balanced view of life.

At UNC, a medical professor said it was a mother's DUTY to abort her baby should it be found to carry the Down's Syndrome. Is this a fact? Is this something a liberal would be honored to say? The elevation of the Earth and the deminshment on man is the prime reason for this crisis!



colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 6:58:55 PM)

quote:

ANWAR has maybe 1 billion barrels of oil if we're being optimistic. This would be enough to last the US a little under a year and a half. Meanwhile, most of the countries that supply us with oil have about ten times that amount.


optimistic according to the whom? an environmentalist firm or an oil company study?



blessedinnyc -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 7:01:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan
Facts=Truth These are lies to spin their view that government is the all and be all of life. There are almost no conservative profs at UNC. So much for presenting a balanced view of life.

At UNC, a medical professor said it was a mother's DUTY to abort her baby should it be found to carry the Down's Syndrome. Is this a fact? Is this something a liberal would be honored to say? The elevation of the Earth and the deminshment on man is the prime reason for this crisis!

quote:

.


That may be true, but it is fast becoming apparent that you show a crass regard for objective facts- like who is able to drill oil fields off the coast of Florida, whether we need to get cows on subway trains, and how much oil we have in ANWR.

I am simply stating that at a state school like UNC or UF, most of the academics get their figures right. They might get their opinions wrong, but they at least use correct facts to back up their arguments. I went to liberal UIUC and got a very liberal CS degree (liberal meaning that we believe in things like logic and reason), and one of the things I've learned is it's helpful when blanket statements come with facts attached.



tracydolls -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 7:02:54 PM)

quote:

and look where it can come from:

ANWAR
off the coast of Florida and east coast of US
shale oil


and why is Venezuala drilling off the coast of Florida and we can't



That's something you would have to ask your gov't. While you are asking can you ask why Louisiana does not get oil revenues for it's off shore drilling, but Texas does.

quote:

PROFIT-LOSS=Stock Holders Equity


I'm not excusing greedy stock holders.


quote:

How do you say it is GREED for a private company to make a profit and when the Government makes a profit for investing no money and doing nothing to earn it is GOOD?


? It is greed for 5 companies to make 9 billion dollar profits in 3 months, no where in that statemnet does it say it is ok for greedy gov't.



blessedinnyc -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 7:05:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan
optimistic according to the whom? an environmentalist firm or an oil company study?


I believe it was a study done by the EIA, an arm of the Bush Administration:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/arctic_national_wildlife_refuge/html/summary.html

The mean number is actually 10.3 billion boe in ANWR. However, not all of this is proven recoverable. In contrast, Venezuela has roughly 77 billion boe proven recoverable. The US consumes 20 million barrels of oil per day, so the EIA's measure would provide about 500 days worth of oil for the US.



colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 7:07:31 PM)

quote:

to permanently turn the state of Colorado into a pH-13 wasteland for maybe a decade's worth of oil?


Studies have proven it can be done in an environmentally friendly way
I am majorly ticked the environmentalists extremists have put us in this position.

I am on premanent disability and this rise in prices has started to cut into my lifestyle and my food budget. St. Al can live a lavish lifestyle and pay for his sins with a carbon credits. I can't. I will need to turn up the air condition in Summer, or turn it off entirely and exessive heat makes me ill, At least I am hot natured so I can get them temps low in Winter.

All the evironmentalists want to do is to worship and bow down before Mother Earth!



colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 7:09:05 PM)

quote:

I believe it was a study done by the EIA.


and is EIA an oil company or an activist environmentalist group?



blessedinnyc -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 7:10:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

Studies have proven it can be done in an environmentally friendly way
I am majorly ticked the environmentalists extremists have put us in this position.

I'd honestly be interested to read some of them. We tried doing it in the '80s, and it made a huge mess- one that we are still cleaning up today.

quote:

I am on premanent disability and this rise in prices has started to cut into my lifestyle and my food budget. St. Al can live a lavish lifestyle and pay for his sins with a carbon credits. I can't. I will need to turn up the air condition in Summer, or turn it off entirely and exessive heat makes me ill, At least I am hot natured so I can get them temps low in Winter.

Maybe you should consider consuming less. I'm sorry, but cheap oil isn't a right. And what would you do if ANWR didn't exist, anyways?



blessedinnyc -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 7:12:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:

I believe it was a study done by the EIA.


and is EIA an oil company or an activist environmentalist group?

The EIA is the Energy Information Administration. They are an arm of the federal government, and are most well-known for their weekly report on oil inventories- which often drives oil prices.

Analysts at the EIA tend to be hired from the oil industry (or energy industry), so you can count on them to lean in favor of the oil companies a little. Most American oil companies would love to have the opportunity to drill in ANWR.



colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 7:15:14 PM)

quote:

I went to liberal UIUC and got a very liberal CS degree (liberal meaning that we believe in things like logic and reason),


it shows.that is where you where indoctrinated..



blessedinnyc -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 7:27:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

it shows.that is where you where indoctrinated..

Actually, Comp. Sci. is one of the last true non-political sciences- it ultimately relies on logic that is either faulty or correct.

Comp. Sci, for example, can be used to prove that gay marriage doesn't exist in a perfect world, but that's another story... (Google "The Marriage Algorithm")

Meanwhile, UIUC is one of the most conservative well-published schools in the country (besides maybe U. Va). We were one of the last schools to give up our mascots, and our engineering professors tend to be conservative-leaning libertarians.

Still, I was trained to believe that objective facts come before opinion. I don't see any of your opinions backed by objective facts, so therefore, since your arguments make no sense to me, I must have gotten a horribly liberal education and had lots of liberal professors.

Oh well, I can always do a masters in Creation Science. I think that's still a very liberal degree, but maybe it's a little less liberal than my Comp. Sci. education- which trains me to rely on silly things like facts and numbers.



colliefan -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 7:34:16 PM)

quote:

Maybe you should consider consuming less.


THIS IS WHAT TICKS ME OFF: liberal elitists such as yourself telling me what I need to do! My driving is minimal. My food expenses are what is needed to get by. I attempted to reeducate myself after going on disability but SSI said no.

LIBERALS such as yourself that believe the government can do no wrong and private industry is evil. Government is your god. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ME TO CONSUME LESS!!!! YOU SELF_RIGHTEOUS LIBERAL ELITE!



ToolmanUF -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 8:05:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:


So, if the rise in gas starts to make driving all the time untenable


for WHOM? The poor and the middle-class? And how do you propose food get from the farm to the market? By mass transit? Just load up the cows on the el and then get to the slaughter-houses. Have the bakery right by the farm and then load up the bread ad cakes on the busus. But how do you propose growing sugar in Iowa? UF is just a another liberal indoctrination school such as UNC. It looks as if your brain has been saturated by the lies taught there.


Excuse me Colliefan,

I don't think it is necessary use such a vituperative tone in your response just because somebody expresses opinions that differ from yours!

Anyway, perhaps I should mention that I never said that I expect mass transit to take over ever single aspect of the transportation industry. However, there is certainly nothing wrong with improving mass transit in US cities, nor in encouraging Americans to carpool and, if possible (gasp!) walk or ride a bike.

I have lived and traveled in Europe and I can tell you that many of the countries over there have transit that is ten times more efficient than that found in American cities. Buses, trains, trams. And not only that, but several cities are designed so that walking and biking are perfectly valid ways to transverse the city.

Americans have chosen to design their cities around the automobile, to the extent that in many American cities there is NO practical alternative to driving your own personal vehicle. In some cities, the situation is so bad that there really is no easy way to rectify the damage that has been done after years of horrible planning. We all know how dependent our car culture is on gas, and eventually the increase in gas prices will be unbearable for many Americans that they will start to realize the advantages of providing alternative means of transport.

I say, bring it on!



tracydolls -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 8:18:01 PM)

The thread is should we put a cap on gas prices.

YES.

Should we consume less. YES . liberals and conservatives. Ahhh....americans should consume less, whole nations get along with almost no fuel, so it's not impossible.



ToolmanUF -> RE: Should there be a cap on Gas prices?? (4/27/2008 8:21:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

The thread is should we put a cap on gas prices.

YES.

Should we consume less. YES . liberals and conservatives. Ahhh....americans should consume less, whole nations get along with almost no fuel, so it's not impossible.


So, I guess my answer is that I don't think putting a cap on gas prices will not solve the problem in the long run.



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