RE: No Christ equals Hell ?

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rcjames -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (4/21/2008 3:26:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pladio Oh, alright, but then RC, can you answer my follow-up question ? It is simple; Believe in Jesus and have salvation, or no Jesus and the highway to hell. Not sinning does not replace belief in Christ, being a great guy does not replace belief in Christ, sitting around being spiritual and contemplating one's navel does not replace belief in Christ. When on believes in Christ as the Son of God, that he died for our sins, and that he was raised bodily from the dead by God through the Holy Spirit one becomes a Christtian. When one becomes a Christian they WILL be obedient to Christ, and sin WILL become passe' in their lives. Christ said; (Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? And Christ speakin in person and through the Word tell us not to sin. So stopping sinning is important, but without true belive in Christ it is nothing. Sorry I was so long in responding Thanks RC edited for spelling

Kat_D -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (4/21/2008 4:00:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pladio quote: ORIGINAL: Kat_D quote: ORIGINAL: Pladio So you did imply it. If you answer my question, which was: Do people who have never heard of Jesus go to hell? by a positive answer: Yes they do. then you did say that all these people are going to hell. Now in your last post you said, that that is the ultimate truth ... How do you know that the truth of Christ is the ultimate truth ? And if it is for you, then you do believe that all those people went to hell... Yes I said it...and I based on God's Word which is why I followed it with specific Scriptures. Last time I looked, you were on a Christian site. The Word of God is the foundation for what we, as Christians, believe. You will likely see it quoted often, so if you can't deal with that, this may not be the site for you. So, why do you say, you didn't say it ? I have no trouble listening to what you have to say. And even though you asked me if I had even read your post while it was obvious that I had, I replied politely. I have been on many forums before and I always read what people post. It is possible I misunderstand people, but I always enjoy reading people's posts. Telling me to go away however is an insult, especially since you were the one who didn't even read my post. (Since you contradicted yourself) I believe I told you that yes, those who don't believe in Jesus Christ are going to hell and when you questioned me about it, I said I didn't "say" it, meaning my answer came from God in His Word originally. I didn't contradict myself...you either twisted or misunderstood what I was trying to tell you. I never told you to "go away," what I actually said was that everything we believe as Christians is based on God's Word and since you were arguing about what the Bible clearly states, I said "Maybe this isn't the site for you." You definitely twisted my words here.

kmangel -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (4/21/2008 4:06:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pladio Let me start from your first question and then go on. Yes, I would say, that being kind-hearted, a good person and so on would let me go to heaven. The response of Christianity however is that that isn't the case. You don't go to heaven if you're a good person. You go to hell. How does that make any sense at all ? And no I'm not perfect, but I've never met someone who is. I don't believe you're perfect neither. You're absolutely right. I'm not perfect. I hope you aren't thinking I was implying I am perfect. No one alive is perfect. If we are ever going to know God here and now and live with Him in heaven, there has to be another way. That way is found in a relationship. That's what the Christian faith is all about. It is not a denomination or a creed. It is not a set of do's or don'ts. It is a deep personal relationship with God. That relationship does not depend on our ability to reach up and touch Him through our own good works, but instead depends on His willingness to reach down and touch us through His love. Can you see the difference I'm trying to make between religion and relationship?

fallenstar -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (4/21/2008 9:08:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stellaluna The resurrection of Jesus is the cornerstone of Christianity. Well Said! [;)]

SonInMe1 -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (4/21/2008 9:34:32 PM)
quote: then why do you sin ? There are many reasons for sin. Disobedaince. The fallen world. The flesh. Giving in to satan's manipuilations. Pride. Foolishness. You are correct, I am not perfect. None are. I don't have all the reasons why people are imperfect, even christians, but I think one reason is, it points out our need for God. quote: Also, it MIGHT be the truth, how do you know Jesus is the truth ? The bible says so. The bible, its always accurate and it always works. What the bible says is wrong, is wrong and its wrong all the time. Believing in this absolute truth, changes people. If it wasn't 100% true, it would not make life long changes in someone. quote: Why can't it be anything else ? Logically truth exists outside of lies. There is only one truth.

NYCorBUST -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (4/21/2008 10:28:13 PM)
quote: Hello, First of all I would like to introduce myself. My name is David. I am not a Christian, but I am very interested in all religions and since Christianity is very close to me and my life, especially lately, I would like to ask several questions. One thing that I have rouble with is this: I have heard many times that people who do not believe in Jesus (as in God and Son of God) go to Hell. Is this true ? If it is, then this means that someone who devotes his whole life to helping others and making others' lifes better will go to hell, while someone who lies, deceives and does other bad stuff will go to heaven if he truly believes in Jesus, since his sins wil be forgiven. Is all of this true ? I have other questions on this subject, but I would like some answers first. I think the posts noted are correct yet one thing. God is Holy (perfect, always right) He created us - therefore He knows how we work (obviously because HE thought out our design and HE created us) Therefore, He knows how we should and should not work - He reserves that Right because He created us and we are His. He created us with to bear His image (be holy and perfect) and be fruitful and multiply it all over the earth. We didn't live up to His standards because we willfully chose to do something we were not intended to do - sin - and we did that out of our free will Therefore, we are sinners and that severs our relationship with God - and thus God wants NOTHING to do with a Sinner. BUT - He loves His creation and decided to redeem/reconcile this broke relationship by wrapping Himself in Flesh, laying aside some of His Godly attributes to become a Man and literally reach down from Heaven and become like us so that He can say "I have walked in your shoes and I know EXACTLY what your life is like" - we call God wrapped in flesh, walking on earth - JESUS. Jesus lived a holy and perfect life as we were created to do so. Then He allowed Himself to be murdered w/o cause thus in that humility He bore the sins of all mankind. He then was buried and raised 3 days later. Then He promised that those who have faith in this death, burial, resurrection and who repent of their sins (that is to agree with God that you aren' t living to His standards and you want to change because you realize you marred His name by NOT bearing the image you were created to bear) So if you "do good things" without "having faith in Jesus" then you "doing good things" while in sin. That is why a prophet of God named Isaiah from long ago says: quote: Isaiah 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. Because all that we do is "unclean" or "not holy" because it is stained by sin (i.e. "filthy garment"). It is only if we believe/have faith that Jesus lived a sinless (clean) life and died a sinless (clean) death; then was raised from the dead - that we will repent of our evil ways and "be washed by the blood" of Jesus so that we are no longer "unclean" or stained by sin and that our "good deeds" will be for Jesus. Again it is stated that: quote: 1Co 15:1-2 ... the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. If you do not "hold fast" or believe this "Gospel" (The Good News of Jesus washing you "clean" and reconciling your relationship back to a loving God) then you believe in Vain. Meaning that all you ever do is for yourself rather than for God who created you do all things for Him. The second part of your question : quote: If it is, then this means that someone who devotes his whole life to helping others and making others' lifes better will go to hell, while someone who lies, deceives and does other bad stuff will go to heaven if he truly believes in Jesus, since his sins wil be forgiven. Is all of this true ? Is "touchy" because the bible is clear that those who are saved will become more like Jesus (Holy). God also tells us that if we are saved we will have new "fruits". (That is our inner thoughts now recognize we are sinners and saved by Jesus thus we have new desires) Which Paul (a New Testament Church Missionary) states: quote: Gal 5:19-25 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. The "Deeds of the Flesh" are contrasted with the "Fruits of the Spirit" - the fruits of the spirit are referred to as new desires that spur up inside of you when you have faith in Jesus' death, burial & resurrection and repent of your evil ways and kill your "deeds of the flesh" and replace them with "fruits of the spirit". We also know that we progressively transform out of the sinful/unclean ways of life into the holy/clean ways of life - but that takes time and each person grows in different ways, patters, and perspectives. So one person may struggle with being a "liar" for 30 years, but NEVER cheat on their spouse. While another may struggle with being an adulterer (whore) for 30 years but NEVER once do ANYTHING else wrong. God doesn't weigh sin as "This one is good" and "This one is worse" - sin is sin, and we all grow in different areas in different ways, at different times.

oldmethuselah -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (4/21/2008 11:13:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pladio Nope, he doesn't. Many, many, many tribes in Africa have never heard of Jesus, and even if some of them have now, it took 1900 years before they did, so the generations of 1900 years all went to hell ? It took more than 200 years for Christianity to propagate through even Europe, one of the smallest continents in the world, so 200 years worth of people around the whole world went to Hell ? And you see all of the above as a good thing ? You do understand you just said that people who weren't even given a choice between Jesus or anything else went to hell... It's not even as if they rejected Christ... They weren't capable of knowing he existed! You aren't going to believe this Pladio, but your opening words in this last post were ALMOST IDENTICAL to mine when I was a young atheist...especially the bit about the "African Tribes"![:D] Now, I don't PRESUME to know if you have a genuine interest in these nebulous "African tribes", but I know I didn't. They were simply a useful smokescreen I had dredged up to deflect the personal guilt I was beginning to feel for my pathetically self-centred lifestyle. Fortunately, I was staying with a brilliant Christian law student (yes dear readers it is possible to be a lawyer and a Christian [:D] ) who SLICED RIGHT THROUGH my facade. It was not long after that the book he had given me to read (Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis) dismantled the rest of my "fortress of logic" (which was actually a flimsy ramshackle structure). that was because both the law student and Lewis were dealing with such a pure consistency of logic that I had to admit my ulterior motives and take down the wall I had built to fend off the "Hound of Heaven" this latter, btw, is the tible of a poem (2 centuries old) which illustrates the tenacity of God and refers to His persistence in trying to reach us with His love, despite our prevarications, deviations, twists and turns away from Him. Here is a modern adaptation by Michael Card, called "Those Strong Feet" Michael Card I fled Him down the nights and days I fled Him down the path of years I heard all about the love of the One Who was following me I clung to every shallow friend The whistling mane of every wind I feared that once I tasted that love I could never let go Cause those strong feet kept following the way I sped But the love that followed overcame the fear that fled So I ran inside the world again To the ones who called the Hound their friend I thought in vain that would be the best place to hide To mother nature's breast I flew And shouted to the sky so blue Please hide me from this One so set on loving me Came back a voice that sounded like the bursting sea None will shelter you who will not shelter me Shelter me, Shelter me Finally, I can flee no more I yielded for Your open door The prize You sought for so long is finally Yours Your dark and gloom have hounded me For so long now that I can't see I surrender all those things You've taken from me Came back a voice that did not take him for your heart I only wanted You to seek them in my all The dark and gloom you said You could no longer stand Was after all the shadow of My loving hand How little worthy of My love could anyone be Who else could ever love you, save only Me Hope you let Him in!

SavedByGraceMD -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (4/22/2008 12:47:37 AM)
Hello David, it is good to have you here. I have read the posts, and do agree with what has been posted here. We as Christians do believe that Jesus lived a perfect life, died a shameful death, and rose from the dead in victory. We believe that through his death, resurrection and defeat of death, that we can be saved. The bible tells us that we are all sinners, that there is none righteous, no one that is good, no not one. It goes in to say in Romans 3 that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The penalty of sin is death. But God mercifully gave us a way out. Your question is how do we know it is true. It is easy for us to say, we know it is true because it just is. We know it is true, but how can you. The bible has stood the test of time, the last book being written over 1900 years ago. While there are different translations, the meaning stays the same. The Old Testament tells us the story of creation, how Israel came to be, and shows us the great power of God. It also paves the way for the messiah. The New Testament is the fulfillment of OT prophecy. The authors of the NT all died horrible deaths, except John, even though they tried to boil him in oil. They all went to their deaths proclaiming Christ. Why? If it were not true, do you think they would have been willing to die for it? Do you know Paul, who was Saul of Tarsus, was a persecutor, and executioner of Christians before he became the apostle Paul. What made him change? He saw Jesus, after Jesus was crucified on his way to Damascus. So we come back to how do we know it is true. All I can say is that if you truly seek God with and open heart and read his word with an open mind, he will reveal himself to you. At that point, when you read his word, it will just make sense. If we just take it on logic alone, if God is holy, and hates sin, believes lying is sin, then God can't speak lies. So if we believe the bible is Gods word, then it has to be true. Granted it was written by men, but it was divinely inspired. It is a guide for us to live this life in a pleasing way to the God of creation. Again logically speaking, if you are standing before a judge for murder, and you start telling him of all the good things you have done, those things won't change the fact that you killed somebody. You will still have to pay the price, which would be jail, or death. The bible tells us that Jesus has been granted the right of judgment of all. So if you stand before him with just your good deeds, even though you are a sinner, the penalty for those sins is death. So someone has to die. It is sad but true, and that death will be apart from God(hell) for eternity. It makes sense that a just and holy God would judge us. It is hard for us to not try to separate sin from sin, like lying and cheating is not as bad as murder. But to God, sin is sin. In this line of thinking, it makes sense for a God who loves us to give us a way out. Which is not a get out of jail free card to accept and then do as we please, but if we accept his free gift of salvation which is attained by belief in Jesus and his resurrection, and turn from our sins, then we are saved. I am sorry to have rambled on here. I hope this may help some.

Gloryandgrace -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (4/27/2008 10:55:32 AM)
great post oldmethuselah

Don675 -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (4/27/2008 6:49:44 PM)
RCJAMES, Do you really think "sin will become passe" when we accept CHRIST as our saviour?What happened to KING DAVID? He committed premeditated murder [URIAH and BATHSHEEBA].He didnt confess this sin until GOD sent NATHAN to see him and told him the story about the sheep. I believe the ones that say LORD,LORD,etc. are people who have done good deeds, things in JESUS name but are not saved by faith in CHRIST. How do you rate sin?Do you have a scale?Since you have been a christian have you ever had any bad thoughts towards other people? The BIBLE says even if we think it, its as if we committed the act whatever that might be. Do you think LOT was a christian in the OLD TESTAMENT sense of the word?The BIBLE indicates that he was even though his life in SODOM and GOMORAH wasnt that of a righteous man. DONK

eschatologist -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (4/27/2008 8:30:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pladio Hello, First of all I would like to introduce myself. My name is David. I am not a Christian, but I am very interested in all religions and since Christianity is very close to me and my life, especially lately, I would like to ask several questions. One thing that I have rouble with is this: I have heard many times that people who do not believe in Jesus (as in God and Son of God) go to Hell. Is this true ? If it is, then this means that someone who devotes his whole life to helping others and making others' lifes better will go to hell, while someone who lies, deceives and does other bad stuff will go to heaven if he truly believes in Jesus, since his sins wil be forgiven. Is all of this true ? I have other questions on this subject, but I would like some answers first. The real question is why don't you want to recieve Jesus and become a born again Christian? Jesus died for your sins so that you wouldn't have to. He loves you and doesn't want to send you to hell. He wants you to repent of your sins and accept His attonement and forgivness for them, recieve Him into your life so He can wash away all your sins and give you His free gift of everlasting Life. It's there for the taking. All you have to do is reach out your hand of Faith and take it. Jesus said, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life; For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him should be saved." God loves you and every other person in the world and He doesn't want to send you to Hell. That's why He lovingly sent Jesus into the world to die for your sins. This is the greatest love of all time, "Greater love hath no man than this that a man lay down His life for his friends." (Jesus) Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and rose again from the dead, and he can give you power to do the same. So, why don't people flock to Jesus when they know it will make a difference between spending eternity in a lake of fire in torture and torment or spending eternity in Paradise? Jesus continues: He that believeth on Him (Jesus, the only begotten Son of God) is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world but men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the Light lest His deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest that they are wrought in God." Maybe that's whats wrong with you, you don't want to have to repent of the sins of your own wicked heart. So your making up excuses of why your more righteous than God and that God should take people to heaven just because they are nice people. Well, the bible says, There is none righteous, no not one. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. All we like sheep have gone astray and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all." No matter how good we try to be we can never be good enough to deserve to go toaven. But the Lord in His love has made a way for us to get to heaven, by recieving Jesus and His forgivness for our sins, and by believing that God raised Him up from the dead. Then Jesus washes away all our sins. In rejecting Jesus you are rejecting Love and forgivness for your sins and therefore are deserving of every ounce of punishment God will heep upon you. That would make you the real hatemongor. Your rejection of Jesus proves that you are evil because you don't want the evilness to be exposed by the light of God's truth. While there's life there's hope. Please recieve Jesus today and ask His Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth and he will answer you questions, as you grow spiritually and read and abide in His words. I could answer all your questions that you asked in this thread so far, but unless you recieve Jesus there's no use going any further. You have to take that firsat step of Faith toreach out and recieve and believe, then the Lord himself will cleanse you of your sin bitterness and hatred, and guide you into all truth and start you on a new life for Him.

Ephesians4_32 -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (4/29/2008 12:59:47 AM)
I'm sure someone has said that people go to hell because they are sinners who haven't been saved (I haven't read this thread, but hope to soon). Isaiah 59 2But your iniquities(sins) have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

PaleHawkWoman -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (5/1/2008 12:06:44 AM)
quote: I'll ask my other question again, since no one seems to have bothered to answer it... If there are people in the world who have never even heard of Jesus, but they do the greatest of things to their fellow human beings. Do they also go to Hell? Since its not possible for them to know Jesus... If people have never heard of Jesus, then God judges them according to their faith in Him. In Genesis, it was said of Abraham that he believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. The idea that God would send people to Hell when they have not heard the Gospel would not be in keeping with God's character of accepting faith in Him. I am Cherokee Indian, and my people have always known who God is, always kept faith with Him. Who is anyone else to say God didn't accept that? Once the Gospel was introduced, the problems came for Natives in that the white man used it not as a means of salvation for the Natives but a tool of subjugation and justification for acts based on greed, arrogance, and prejudice. Many of us did not reject Jesus, the Creator-Son, we rejected the white man and his arrogant, abusive church. Nowadays, there those who reject what some refer to as "churchianity", or the materialistic dogma of the modern church which seems to be more about how much money you have than loving your fellow man(especially the one who is different from you) and walking humbly with God. So if I do not worship in church according to the standard American evangelical litergy, singing songs from the standard American hymnal, there are those even in this forum who will say I'm going to hell because I don't worship Christ with the same cultural format as they do. And because I do worship The Creator with the ceremonies, songs, and according to the cultural standards of my people, I might be called "demonic" or pagan by some of those same people, never mind that they have absolutely NO knowledge of my culture. I've gone to churches where people engage in litergical dancing(in costumes), waving flags around(been hit twice hard enough to leave bruises for nearly a week by flaggers "in the Spirit" and once had a tooth chipped by an litergical dancer whose wildly waving arms smacked me right across the mouth), and people falling out in the aisles. I've run into people from some of these same churches who denounced me as pagan for wearing my traditional regalia to verious church-sponsored reconciliation events as well as secular inter-cultural events where our group drums and dances to honor the Creator and pray for the events and people in attendance- and our dances are within a circle and orderly(nobody gets hurt). When I grew up in the South in the 60's and 70's, each church had it's "going to hell" doctrine. If your were a Baptist, everyone who wasn't Baptist was going to hell. If your were Church of Christ, everyone who wasn't Church of Christ was going to hell. I grew up Methodist, and according to all the other churches, we were going straight to hell in a hand basket and down a greased pole, but the Methodist church preached that if you believed in Jesus as your savior you were Christian and thus going to heaven no matter what denomination you belonged to. Go figure. Will my ancestors who did not know who Jesus is and never heard the Gospel be condemned to hell on that account? I do not think so, for the Bible says that those who have not heard will be judged according to their faith in God and their faithfulness in seeking Him out. Will my people who have accepted Jesus as Creator-Son but rejected the church go to hell? I'm waiting on someone to prove that one to me. What about somone who was preached a hateful, racist/elitist version of Jesus and was repelled by it... will they go to hell? Maybe, but it is pretty certain that the one who preached that kind of Jesus will be there with them, as Jesus Himself said that God hates hypocrites and that those who cause other to stumble or who cause other to reject the Lord as savior most certainly dam*n themselves. As a man in his twenties, Mahatma Gandhi studied the Bible and believed it to be the greatest book ever written. He wanted to become a christian, but when he went to a church, which was filled with English congregants, he was turned away and told to go worship with his own people. Later in life he was asked what was the greatest hinderance to the spread of Christianity in India and his reply was "Christians". Can you imagine what India would have become if he had been welcomed by the church, by those calling themselves christians, and had become christian himself? Do I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, fully God and Fully man? Yes. Do I believe in the Virgin birth? Yes. Do I believe that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life? Yes. Do I believe that the shed blood of Christ paid the price for the sins of all people and redeems all peoples and their cultures? Absolutely. Do I believe that God intended for all believers to fit into some cookie-cutter mold of cultural religiosity so that we all look the same, sound the same, and "do church" the same? NO! God's first testament to Himsels if His creation. In every aspect, in everything that is He has put clues that point us to Him if we have eyes to see, ears to hear, and a willing spirit which accepts His leading the way. Since He spoke all things into being, and Jesus is the Word of His mouth by which all things were made, then creation also points to Jesus as Creator and Redeemer. He has spoken His Wisdom to people who have never heard of a Bible and who couldn't read if they had had one. There was a Inuit prophet named Manilaaq well over a century ago to whom the Creator-Father spoke and made known the Creator-Son and Creator-Spirit. The Creator did not give His name but told Manilaaq that white men with hairy faces would come up the river, flying thru the air in silver boats powered by fire. These men would have a thing made of white leaves bound in black hide in which the Name of the Creator-Son would be found. So imgine what happened in the late 1930's when the first missionaries travel up the Kobuk River in the Yukon to a Inuit village and the first thing these missionaries- who assumed that the Inuit knew nothing about God let alone Jesus- hear is "Where is the black hide-covered thing with the name of Creator-Son? Give us the Name so that we may call it when we worship Him!" Keep in mind that these Inuit worshipped as Inuit people, not like white folks. Was their faith suspect? Would God accept it as pleasing to Him even if white folks were offended by their style of worship, with Inuit dances and songs and drumming? Would the missionaries have any right or authority to tell the Inuit "Stop this! This is not how we worship! If your don't worship like we tell you to, God will be offended!"? Ah, but that is exactly what happened, and the community that had worshipped together for over 100 years joyfully as one was ripped apart by someone else's ignorance and arrogance. So who goes to hell in this case? The Inuit who walked away from the community of faith or the missionaries who caused them to leave?

1love1God1way -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (5/1/2008 12:34:45 AM)
Believing in a creator-god is not necessarily the same as believing in YHWH, the one true God.

Catholicandloveit -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (5/1/2008 5:32:56 PM)
Pladio To be honest I haven't read the whole thread, but here is my take - I think that the standard path to salvation is found in Jesus, however I stop short of limiting Gods mercy in that he is free to offer salvation to whomever he chooses. However if you understand Christianity and Jesus and walk away from it, that is not the same as someone who has no idea who Jesus was/is. If you feel drawn to the christian faith start visiting Church's and talking to people about what that denomination believes about the issues important to you and why. God Bless, Mary

Ephesians4_32 -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (5/1/2008 9:30:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Pladio One thing that I have rouble with is this: I have heard many times that people who do not believe in Jesus (as in God and Son of God) go to Hell. Is this true ? If it is, then this means that someone who devotes his whole life to helping others and making others' lifes better will go to hell, while someone who lies, deceives and does other bad stuff will go to heaven if he truly believes in Jesus, since his sins wil be forgiven. Is all of this true ? I have other questions on this subject, but I would like some answers first. No, this is not true. The one who does lots of good things isn't sinless. Isaiah 64 6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. James 2 10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Now we are hopeless, unless there's a way out! Romans 3 19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Galatians 3 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. The one who says he follows Jesus, but "lies, deceives and does other bad stuff," is a liar. Liars also go to hell. Both of these sinners, the one who tries to do good and the one who claims to be a Christian, need to be born again. The one who is born again has been bought by the blood of Christ, and loves Him because Christ in him is the hope of glory! As a result of being indwelt by Christ, the true Christian will gradually be transformed to live a holy life. This gradual process is referred to as sanctification.

DaveW -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (5/5/2008 8:46:34 AM)
quote: There was a Inuit prophet named Manilaaq well over a century ago to whom the Creator-Father spoke and made known the Creator-Son and Creator-Spirit. The Creator did not give His name but told Manilaaq that white men with hairy faces would come up the river, flying thru the air in silver boats powered by fire. These men would have a thing made of white leaves bound in black hide in which the Name of the Creator-Son would be found. So imgine what happened in the late 1930's when the first missionaries travel up the Kobuk River in the Yukon to a Inuit village and the first thing these missionaries- who assumed that the Inuit knew nothing about God let alone Jesus- hear is "Where is the black hide-covered thing with the name of Creator-Son? Give us the Name so that we may call it when we worship Him!" I recently read of a similar story a century earlier in the Pacific Northwest. I believe it was the Middle Spokanes that recieved a prophecy of white skinned men in black robes with leaves bound together telling of a God who would make men dwell in peace. The Shaman was not given the name of God but refered to him as He Who Dwells in High Places. The tribes in that area had warred with each other for generations. By the time those men arived the tribes were at peace. Of course the anglican missionaries could not believe that "ignorant savages" could have heard from God.

dawnofthemorning -> RE: No Christ equals Hell ? (5/10/2008 2:44:52 PM)
"What is True of Christ is True of You" , by Neil Anderson 1. In His death Romans 6:3, 6; Galations 2:20; Colossians 3:1-3 2. In His burial Romans 6:4 3. In His resurrection Romans 6:5,8,11 4. In His ascension Ephesians 2:6 5. In His life Romans 6:10,11 6. In His power Ephesians 1:19,20 7. In His inheritance Romans 8:16,17; Ephesians 1:11,12 John 1:12 I am God's child John 15:15 I am Christ's friend Romans 5:1 I have been justified 1 Corinthians 6:17 I am united with the Lord, and I am one spirit with Him 1 Corinthians 6:20 I have been bought with a price. I belong to God 1 Corinthians 12:27 I am a member of Christ's body Ephesians 1:1 I am a saint Ephesians 1:5 I have been adopted as God's child Ephesians 2:18 I have direct access to God through the Holy Spirit Colossians 1:14 I have been redeemed and forgiven of all my sins Colossians 2:10 I am complete in Christ Romans 8:1,2 I am free from condemnation Romans 8:28 I am assured that all things work together for good Romans 8:31-34 I am free from any condemning charges against me Romans 8:35-39 I cannot be seperated from the love of God. 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22 I have been established, anointed and sealed by god Philippians 1:6 I am confident that the good work God has begun in me will be perfected Philippians 3:20 I am a citizen of heaven Colossians 3:3 I am hidden with Christ in god 2 Timothy 1:7 I have not been given a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind Hebrews 4:16 I can find grace and mercy in time of need 1 John 5:18 I am born of God and the evil one cannot touch me.

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