RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (Full Version)

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Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 11:37:09 AM)

quote:

Then I don't think we would be having this discussion.


we have brains to study any social phenomena n all human beliefs. if u are not interested. find sth else more interesting to u, have a nice day!!



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 11:43:31 AM)

quote:

Thus the term "melting pot".


yeah, interesting term!
u know why i start this thread. bcz in my mind, sometimes i still consider
western culture = christian culture.
n i find this is not very true now.



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 11:50:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brachah

quote:

Then I don't think we would be having this discussion.


we have brains to study any social phenomena n all human beliefs. if u are not interested. find sth else more interesting to u, have a nice day!!


I wasn't saying that it wasn't or was interesting. What I was saying is that if we Christians stopped letting our culture influence our faith, and made our faith influence our culture it would be obvious that our faith and culture agreed. So it would be easier to say that western culture = Christian culture. If when you say western you mean the United States. This is supposed to be a Christian culture, but I would say that our actions don't suggest that anymore.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 11:54:05 AM)

yes, your right. western culture does not equal christian culture.

I'm curious about your culture, too. You said you go to church. Are you able to freely go to church if you want too?



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 11:56:39 AM)

quote:

but I would say that our actions don't suggest that anymore.


i actually care the laws more than the actions. :)



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 12:01:22 PM)

quote:

Are you able to freely go to church if you want too?


in most cases yes,
there are some exceptions:

1) there is 1 expat church here, only expats allowed, chinese are not allowed by the chinese government.
2) foreigners are not allowed to lead church here. even the house church or underground church.
english bible study family meetings (involving expats) are ok in our homes but better keep it a lower tone.

the reason why God allows these, perhaps bcz the government is afraid of foreign political influence on the chinese, n cause divisions in the church or in the nation.



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 12:07:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brachah

quote:

but I would say that our actions don't suggest that anymore.


i actually care the laws more than the actions. :)


judging by our laws, we would still not be a Christian culture. ie the death penalty, row vs wade(abortion).

You may be more interested in the laws, but our actions speak louder than our words.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 12:09:13 PM)

Thank you. Very interesting. What is expat?



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 12:11:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow

Thank you. Very interesting. What is expat?


I was wondering that also.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 12:12:29 PM)

What would you like to know about our laws?



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 12:15:37 PM)

expatriate



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 12:24:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow

What would you like to know about our laws?


actually i know a little, n worry some.
for example: gay marriage (another hot topic, i am not actually interested in debating)...
laws regarding prayers etc in public schools...
freedom of carrying guns...
yes, abortion perhaps...
i know there are a lot of arguements on the laws. i mean laws are very important.
laws can regulate citizen actions.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 12:42:00 PM)

Oh! expatriate. So people from another country can go to church but not chinese? I find this very sad.

About our laws. gay marriage is not legal marriage. There are some who would like to change the laws to make it legal. I hop this doesn't happen.
We used to have prayer in schools, now we can't unless it is a christian school. Public school it is not allowed. :(
We do have the right to bear arms. (guns) We have the right to defend ourselfs, but we do not have the right to harm others short of defending ourselfs or others from harm.
Abortion is legal, it's sad to say. Most christians would like to see this law changed to protect the life of the unborn child.
Yes laws do regulate the citizens. We can sometimes change the laws. Sometimes this is a good thing but like when abortion became legal, it can be a bad thing.



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 12:53:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brachah

quote:

ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow

What would you like to know about our laws?


actually i know a little, n worry some.
for example: gay marriage (another hot topic, i am not actually interested in debating)...
laws regarding prayers etc in public schools...
freedom of carrying guns...
yes, abortion perhaps...
i know there are a lot of arguements on the laws. i mean laws are very important.
laws can regulate citizen actions.


Laws are very important. But when mans laws go against Gods laws, they are only destructive to our society.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 12:56:27 PM)

One last law that we have is called "freedom of speech". That means we can talk about anything and share our thoughts, even if it is not what most people agree with. Like anything else it can be used for good (like telling people about Jesus) or for bad (like talking about worshipping satan).

I have to leave now to get to Bible study, but I have enjoyed talking with you, Brachah. I hope we get to talk again.

The last thing I want to tell you before I leave is that Jesus loves you.
God Bless.

quote:

Original: SavedByGraceMD

Laws are very important. But when mans laws go against Gods laws, they are only destructive to our society.


Agreed! :)



davelinde -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 1:09:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brachah
i know there are a lot of arguements on the laws. i mean laws are very important.
laws can regulate citizen actions.


This is another key aspect of culture - eg is does it restrain itself by the rule of law or does might make right.

Being subject to the rule of law is a Biblical concept though not uniquely Christian (still it is Christian). You can also ask if those in authority are subject to the same law as those under authority. Again, all being subject to the law (I'm talking civil law here) is a Christian concept but not uniquely Christian.

I haven't done enough study of history to have a bunch of facts or analysis at my disposal here... but my view is that much of the basis of western culture - both Western European and then Colonial and Revolutionary War America was distinctly Christian derived. I am NOT arguing that everyone in those societies WAS a believing Christian, but that the framework of their society presumed that Christianity was true.

In Europe now this influence has already dropped off dramatically and the United States is following along. In the last 50 to 70 years the call to keep the state out of church affairs has shifted to a dogma to keep the church out of civil (state) affairs. Gradually the culture at large shifted too. Now there is even a push to claim that Christianity had no real influence years ago but that the dominant ideas were all purely secular. This is nothing but an attempt to claim that the current secular mindset will be capable of creating a moral, vibrant and successful culture again - since, by this claim, it was all secular thinking in America to begin with.

I believe it was not. I believe we have benefited from the Christian under-pinnings of our culture. I believe those under-pinnings are being taken away and it will be to our collective DIS-benefit.



DaveW -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 3:16:06 PM)

I would disagree that western culture is inherently "christian." If you want christian culture, you will get sub-cultures or counter-cultures for the evangelical community, the catholic community, the EOC community, etc. Each has its own artistic expressions, its own social mores and its own language. That is part of the definition of a culture.



davelinde -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/22/2008 3:35:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

I would disagree that western culture is inherently "christian."


So what roots and dominant influence would you ascribe to Western culture? Islamic? Pagan? Other? Note that the OP is from an Eastern culture and the roots do seem to trace differently and the culture is different.

I'll repeat, I'm not asserting that anyone in Western culture is necessarily Christian. I'm also not saying the the American culture is becoming more Christian - I believe it is moving away in fact.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 3:26:40 AM)

quote:

In the last 50 to 70 years the call to keep the state out of church affairs has shifted to a dogma to keep the church out of civil (state) affairs.

Gradually the culture at large shifted too.

Now there is even a push to claim that Christianity had no real influence years ago but that the dominant ideas were all purely secular.

This is nothing but an attempt to claim that the current secular mindset will be capable of creating a moral, vibrant and successful culture again - since, by this claim, it was all secular thinking in America to begin with.

I believe it was not. I believe we have benefited from the Christian under-pinnings of our culture. I believe those under-pinnings are being taken away and it will be to our collective DIS-benefit.


very good analysis.

since now we have internet, airplanes, money, tourism, international biz, missionaries, etc, the world becomes small (it's just an earth village). tks to the fast spreading of gospel, even china is going to have the world's largest christian population real soon. this cud not be imagined 10-20 years back. so, in another 10-20 years, we can dare to imagine big drastic changes can happen around the world.

speaking of faith, my church is the largest house church in china christian history. we are protestant fundamentalists or evangelists, if we must wear some labels (human beings need labels sometimes). at the same time, i participate actively in various christian forums both english n chinese. i also attend several services in another bi-lingual church (with a lot of expats) said possibly under chinese government control.

now, the chinese christians have a new west movement, that is to spread the gospel to the west of china to the muslims n finally reach israel. bcz people believe then wl be the time jesus is back.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 3:52:48 AM)

those changes we are expecting can be historic. now, it's the question how can we or especially each individual (I) equip myself to contribute to the historic changes in a positive or christian way?

can we be satisfied read a few devotionals each morning, go church every sunday, donate regualrly? + fellow a few christians at our home or in a park? + be faithful to our spouses? no, we are living in the world, we cannot ignore people who have different ideologies. we cannot even ignore our enemies if we have to have 1 or 2 sometimes (i hope i dont have any).

yes, it's best u tell them jesus n everybody says amen. but if they choose to believe something else, shouldnt i try some respect n understanding towrds them just because they are equal human beings? then there comes the tolerance of different beliefs, which cud be part of the contributions towards a harmonious world contemporary culture (sth national is universal, sth universal is also national).
(i agree love the sinner, hate the sin. all sins need confession n repenting.)

i wud like to hear ur views on balancing the 2:
stick to christian belief vs respect other beliefs or other cultures (respect not = accept or even agree)



DaveW -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 7:48:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: davelinde

So what roots and dominant influence would you ascribe to Western culture? Islamic? Pagan? Other? Note that the OP is from an Eastern culture and the roots do seem to trace differently and the culture is different.
Western culture certainly has judeo-christian influences but at its heart is secular humanist. It rejects anything that cannot be put under a microscope and examined in the cold light of scientific logic. It gives lip service to God but denies that He is in any way involved in peoples' lives.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 10:17:10 AM)

quote:

Western culture certainly has judeo-christian influences but at its heart is secular humanist. It rejects anything that cannot be put under a microscope and examined in the cold light of scientific logic. It gives lip service to God but denies that He is in any way involved in peoples' lives.


excellent!

actually i think judaism is humanist. christianity was not. but contemporary christianity (especially the liberals) are involving more n more humanism. many christian charities are more humanist than christian.



landabee -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 10:23:30 AM)

quote:

i think this can be an intersting topic.
n i want to collect as much opinions as possible.

christian faith means a religion or something, connected with christians only.

but christian culture means the western culture. it includes all the people in the world who is perhaps affected by the western culture.
also what is the core components of western/christian culture?
tks


I will be watching (and perhaps participating a bit) this thread closely.

The PERCEPTION and promotion that Christian culture is a "prototype" is something that I chafe against.

There are cultures within which the Christian experience looks similar. Just as different cultures look different, the manifestation of Christianity within those cultures may appear differently.

There isn't one formulaic, cookie cutter Christian. Although many may beg to differ. LOL

Many on this board, for examply have a clear idea of what Christian culture should look like.

I respectfully submit, that outside of the clearly explained guidelines in the Word, everything else is man man.... or societal preference.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 10:24:56 AM)

I am happy to hear you say that the truth about Jesus is spreading in China.

quote:

Original: Brachah

(i agree love the sinner, hate the sin. all sins need confession n repenting.)

i wud like to hear ur views on balancing the 2:
stick to christian belief vs respect other beliefs or other cultures (respect not = accept or even agree)


I can show respect for people of other beliefs without denying my own faith. I can treat them with kindness and love, but not agree with them. (To agree with what they believe would be to deny Jesus, and I won't do that.) I can tell them about Jesus but if they don't want to hear, then I can still talk with them about other things, be kind, and loving. And I can pray for them. I'm not going to argue with them or be unkind to them.

God's word tells us to pray for those who hurt us. Not easy to do, but we can forgive them and pray for them with the Lord's help.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 11:07:05 AM)

if anybody has done some close look or study into messianism, u may have a lot of interesting discovery. messianism is where judaism n christianity really interact, also IMO closest to what JESUS taught in the 1st century when he walked on this planet earth.



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