RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (Full Version)

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DaveW -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 12:03:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brachah

actually i think judaism is humanist. christianity was not. but contemporary christianity (especially the liberals) are involving more n more humanism. many christian charities are more humanist than christian.
Perhaps you do not understand what I mean by "humanist."

Man = god is humanism.

No powers on high, nothing but the physical world we can see and touch and measure. I.e., as the most highly "evolved" animals around we are the ultimate by which everything else is measured.

Most Judiasms (orthodox, conservative, even reform) do not embrace such a viewpoint.



DaveW -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 12:07:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brachah

if anybody has done some close look or study into messianism, u may have a lot of interesting discovery. messianism is where judaism n christianity really interact, also IMO closest to what JESUS taught in the 1st century when he walked on this planet earth.
I assume you mean something different than Messianic Judiasm? Messianism usually implies the study of Messiah by the Chassidic Jews like the Chabad Lubavichers or the Breslovers or Satmars.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 12:20:08 PM)

quote:

Perhaps you do not understand what I mean by "humanist."

Man = god is humanism.

No powers on high, nothing but the physical world we can see and touch and measure. I.e., as the most highly "evolved" animals around we are the ultimate by which everything else is measured.

Most Judiasms (orthodox, conservative, even reform) do not embrace such a viewpoint.


actually in my dictionary, real humanists are those believing in God. (theist humanists)
i know there are atheist humanists, i almost forget. LOL.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 12:23:38 PM)

judaism is a very special case compared to any other religion.
it believes in a GOD, at same time, it believes in humanism. it believes in human nature. it believes human can achieve divinity by human efforts. humanity has great value in judaism.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 12:36:23 PM)

quote:

I assume you mean something different than Messianic Judiasm? Messianism usually implies the study of Messiah by the Chassidic Jews like the Chabad Lubavichers or the Breslovers or Satmars.


yes, it is also called messianic judaism.

nowadays, many messianics are GENTILES. it's actually a movement developping very fast. their mission was to preach back to the jews. but then some very interesting things happen, some messianics (former baptists) emerged into orthodox judaism as nazarene, n caused some kind of earthquake among the jewish n the messianics.



RJR_fan -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 12:45:32 PM)

quote:

'Things' cannot be Christian, only people can. There is no Christian culture, nor Christian nations, nor Christian companies.


And there can be no Christian churches, nor Christian families. No Christian vocations (other than preacher, singer, or jock), nor any Christian code of civil law. The only thing that can be Christian is the individual soul, and we must immediately confess that Jesus Christ is our guru, our personal (pet) spiritual advisor, not the King of the universe.

Do I understand your position properly? Faith is an interior mystery, a personal experience, that has zip, nada, zilch, nothing, at all to do with the observable world?



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 12:49:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RJR_fan

quote:

'Things' cannot be Christian, only people can. There is no Christian culture, nor Christian nations, nor Christian companies.


And there can be no Christian churches, nor Christian families. No Christian vocations (other than preacher, singer, or jock), nor any Christian code of civil law. The only thing that can be Christian is the individual soul, and we must immediately confess that Jesus Christ is our guru, our personal (pet) spiritual advisor, not the King of the universe.

Do I understand your position properly? Faith is an interior mystery, a personal experience, that has zip, nada, zilch, nothing, at all to do with the observable world?


oh, great, i think u got my point.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 1:08:42 PM)

for example,
1 christian lives in a society of 10,000 people of other beliefs.
of course, there is no church, no christian school, no christian family, no christian law, no christian government, no christian company, no christian society... he was born there, he may have to live the rest of his life there, he may not be able to leave the society. this is NOT fiction. i know a lot of christians in china, or in iran may live such a life.

wl u still have a strong feel as a soul that God or Jesus is with u every moment?

he wl be strong only when he believes God is the King of the universe, of the society he lives in, of the people who have different ideology. if he has problem in understanding this fully, he may commit suicide, or at least mentally depressed seriously. :)



RJR_fan -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/23/2008 2:07:59 PM)

quote:

now, it's the question how can we or especially each individual (I) equip myself to contribute to the historic changes in a positive or christian way?


You are raising questions that are very dear to my heart. In 1970, I participated in a powerful spiritual movement here in the USA that apparently came to nothing after a few years. American culture's drift towards the abyss continued unabated. I have since come to understand that there is a difference between "revival" -- an emotional moment of passionate experience -- and "reformation" -- a whole culture's transformation on the basis of God's truth.

At key historical moments, someone with vision can articulate a fresh way of seeing life that gives people hope. These moments are usually times of economic turmoil, exploding pornography, diseases, social unrest, and desperate confusion.

For example, when Alaric the Goth conquered Rome, the entire Roman empire trembled from this death blow to the heart of their social identity. One man, Augustine, wrote the book (The City of God) that gave people a fresh, and more Christian, identity to hang on to. His concepts of God, man, and society shaped the culture of Europe for the next thousand years.

At the time of Martin Luther's Protestant Reformation, once again, there was a continent that had lost its bearings, its sense of purpose, its reason to exist. According to one historian, something like half of the adult population of some European countries had syphilis. Strange cults were abroad in the land (see Umberto Eco's historical novel The Name of the Rose).

Today, the "only game in town" combines Calvinist epistemology, theonomy, and exuberant optimism. The only scholars who are systematically applying God's Word to all of life, all of society, are the "Christian Reconstructionists." Like all enduring reformations, this is a scholarly movement that challenges the minds as well as the "hearts" of Christians. For example: would you like to see what the Bible has to say about "fractional reserve banking?" Go to this site, and download, for free, the book Honest Money.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 6:29:15 AM)

tks. u openned my eyes. i have never heard of this before.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 6:38:05 AM)

Christian Reconstructionism is a religious and theological movement within Protestant Christianity that calls for Christians to put their faith into action in all areas of life. The beliefs characteristic of Christian Reconstructionism include:

Calvinism as the basis for personal regeneration that is required to change people before changes occur in the broader culture,
Theonomy applying the general principles of Old Testament and New Testament moral law and case laws in the appropriate family, church and/or civil government,
Postmillennialism, the Christian Eschatology belief that God's kingdom began at the first coming of Jesus Christ, and will advance throughout history until it fills the whole earth through conversion to the Christian faith,
The presuppositional apologetics of Cornelius Van Til which holds there is no neutrality between believers and non-believers, that the Bible reveals a self-authenticating world-view and system of truth, and that non-believing belief systems self-destruct when they become more consistent with their presuppositions, (Bahnsen, Van Til's Apologetic, pp. 145-6, 97, 315-6) and
Decentralized social order resulting in minimal state power.[1]
Christian Reconstructionism is not related to Reconstructionist Judaism, Progressive Reconstructionism...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reconstructionism



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 7:06:41 AM)

i had a quick review of the major parts of the above article.
many concepts n ideas of christian reconstructionism are excellent. they at least touched some area the traditional christianity has ignored.
but it needs a lot of study. n i wud like see a sound christian reconstructionism simplized edition. :) it seems still some confusions need be cleaned as the wiki states itself.



LoyalGypsy -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 7:18:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brachah

another concept is: ecumenical movement.
it seems when ecumenism goes extreme, it wants to combine together all denominations, all religions, all beliefs... "love" everybody, unite everybody, praise everybody. at last it = humanism.




Greetings,


quote:

ecumenical movement

You mean like this here?...LINK



LG



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 7:29:28 AM)

re christian re-constructionism wiki:

the article has some methodist tone.
about the laws n morals, i see some confusion.
non-neutrality may need be studied further.
minimize government, + maximize society



LoyalGypsy -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 8:05:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brachah

quote:

You mean like this here?...LINK

LG


cannot open the link.
anyway i am not interested in ecumenical movement. it's terrible to me.




http://www.onenewsnow.com/vidPlayer.aspx?videoId=3101


This caught my attention,
quote:

1 christian lives in a society of 10,000 people of other beliefs.
of course, there is no church, no christian school, no christian family, no christian law, no christian government, no christian company, no christian society...


And in the speach in the link , everyting was mentioned but religion.

I just saw a type of likness to the quote



LG



RJR_fan -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 8:08:52 AM)

quote:

but it needs a lot of study. n i wud like see a sound christian reconstructionism simplized edition. :) it seems still some confusions need be cleaned as the wiki states itself.


Which means, me lad, that there's work to be done for sharp young Christians who just need a place to begin. But, as one luminary in the movement frequently says, "you can't fight something with nothing." The frantic foes of Christian Reconstruction are rabidly infuriated by the fact that they have nothing to offer instead of CR -- except for more emotional onanism and self-indulgent "spiritual" self-pleasuring. Hey, if they want to sit in a corner and play with themselves, go for it! Just don't harsh the mellow of those who realize that God has called them to achieve something in the real world for His glory!

BTW -- I'm a better technical writer today because I sought God's pattern for my discipline in His Word -- and found it in Leviticus. "Topic-based authoring" is the new buzzword. Put everything you need to achieve a task in one place. That's why Leviticus is so repetitive and filled with redundancy -- you unroll the scroll to the right place, and follow the directions, without having to refer back and forth to other places in the text.

BTW -- my favorites of the free books are David Chilton's two volumes. One is on Biblical economics, a rousing, rip-roaring rebuttal to Ron Sider's soft-sell socialism.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 8:31:52 AM)

quote:



And in the speach in the link , everyting was mentioned but religion.

I just saw a type of likness to the quote



LG


i have not finished the video. but perhaps i got what u mean already.
well, as rjrfan said, sometimes everybody is looking for new solutions, i do hope people get the right 1. :)
but if sth goes wrong, even in the states, that means all of us around the world are facing some similar challenges.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 8:51:59 AM)

There is one God, one way to Him, through His Son, Jesus Christ. God doesn't change.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 9:03:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RJR_fan

quote:

but it needs a lot of study. n i wud like see a sound christian reconstructionism simplized edition. :) it seems still some confusions need be cleaned as the wiki states itself.


Which means, me lad, that there's work to be done for sharp young Christians who just need a place to begin. But, as one luminary in the movement frequently says, "you can't fight something with nothing." The frantic foes of Christian Reconstruction are rabidly infuriated by the fact that they have nothing to offer instead of CR -- except for more emotional onanism and self-indulgent "spiritual" self-pleasuring. Hey, if they want to sit in a corner and play with themselves, go for it! Just don't harsh the mellow of those who realize that God has called them to achieve something in the real world for His glory!

BTW -- I'm a better technical writer today because I sought God's pattern for my discipline in His Word -- and found it in Leviticus. "Topic-based authoring" is the new buzzword. Put everything you need to achieve a task in one place. That's why Leviticus is so repetitive and filled with redundancy -- you unroll the scroll to the right place, and follow the directions, without having to refer back and forth to other places in the text.

BTW -- my favorites of the free books are David Chilton's two volumes. One is on Biblical economics, a rousing, rip-roaring rebuttal to Ron Sider's soft-sell socialism.


LOL, ur words are very sharp. anyway i got what u mean, n basicly i understand u.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 9:06:44 AM)

as a ref, i wud post jewish reconstructionism for comparison:

Reconstructionist Judaism is a modern American-based Jewish movement, based on the ideas of the late Mordecai Kaplan (1881 – 1983). The movement views Judaism as a progressively evolving civilization.[1] It originated as the radical left branch of Conservative Judaism before it splintered. The movement developed from the late 1920s to 1940s, and it established a rabbinical college in 1968.

There is substantial theological diversity within the movement. Halakha is not considered binding, but is treated as a valuable cultural remnant that should be upheld unless there is reason for the contrary. The movement emphasizes positive views towards modernism, and considers religious custom to be subservient to personal autonomy. Reconstructionists find traditional theistic views found in Judaism to be incompatible with modern thought and propose a naturalistic outlook instead.[



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 9:07:59 AM)

link for my above article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstructionist_Judaism



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 9:55:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow

There is one God, one way to Him, through His Son, Jesus Christ. God doesn't change.


true.

but unfortunately i wl never be G-d.
G-d the father doesnt need to refresh Himself everyday.
G-d the son sometimes needed re-freshed strength even when he was a human.
so, if i as a human need be refreshed. it's natural. n a society needs refreshment or recovery is natural.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 10:16:11 AM)

quote:

Original: Brachah

true.

but unfortunately i wl never be G-d.
G-d the father doesnt need to refresh Himself everyday.
G-d the son sometimes needed re-freshed strength even when he was a human.
so, if i as a human need be refreshed. it's natural. n a society needs refreshment or recovery is natural.


Oh, I see. Yes we do need to be refreshed each day. And we need to encourage one another. In the society you live in, it much be much harder to do this.



davelinde -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 12:14:27 PM)

I saw this statement in Al Mohler's BLOG and it reminded me of this thread. It's a way of parsing out Christian Culture as a functional faith vs Christian Faith as an authentic faith (with a proper object of faith)

quote:


Christians should learn to detect a functional account of religious belief when listening to public figures speak. Liberals tend to speak in functional terms of meaning and purpose. Conservatives tend to speak functionally in terms of social order, stability, and morality.

None of these is a substitute for authentic Christianity -- a faith that is predicated on being true -- not merely meaningful or helpful.



Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 10:10:33 PM)

quote:


None of these is a substitute for authentic Christianity -- a faith that is predicated on being true -- not merely meaningful or helpful.


i am glad at least i know not all christians wl agree with it.
the traditional christians cage themselves into the so called authentic faith.
i see churches emphasis on the authentic faith or persoanl spiritual well-being, but dont put emphasis on communication among christians or non-christians. i also see churches empahsis on communications n dont emphasis on personal spiritual well-being. it's hard to achieve a balance. but this is what i am doing.



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