RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (Full Version)

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Brachah -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/24/2008 10:51:23 PM)

quote:

One is on Biblical economics, a rousing, rip-roaring rebuttal to Ron Sider's soft-sell socialism.


socialism can be more dangerous than capitalism, though i do think it wl be another good topic how to keep capitalism in a healthy way.
i also agree most of the western political or economic systems are greatly influenced by the judeo-christian beliefs.



oldmethuselah -> B'wana and Sahib may hold the keys (4/24/2008 11:19:17 PM)

My uncle was a British soldier in India, and, he explained to me an interesting phenomena that used to take place with surprising regularity in the days of the British Empire...(1800's)

It may shed some light on this question of "Christian Culture"...

Often an entirely reprobate son of the British aristocracy, a lazy dissolute creature, would be conveniently relocated to Africa or India when his presence became too much of an embarassment.

Many of these continued their dissipated lifestyle, but, an AMAZING transformation took place in more than a few...

THESE latter specimens, now faced with the reality of being the only white face in a sea of "foreigners" (as the Brits had the audacity of calling people even in their aboriginal setting), sort of ROSE TO THE OCCASION, began to exhibit standards of decency, fair play and stickability that they NEVER HAD in England.

Rising early, riding out to the "natives" on a horse, these "Sahibs" or "Bwanas" would often uphold the standards of the Empire doling out fair judgments with impartiality and no thought of personal gain...

now, it would be silly to think these folks had suddenly become Christians...but they sort of got caught up in "what was expected" of an English Christian officer and gentleman...

I do not comment here on their arrogant racism, or sense of superiority, only on the fact that they began to behave decently because they had - on some level - absorbed an idea of "Christian Culture"



Brachah -> RE: B'wana and Sahib may hold the keys (4/24/2008 11:34:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: oldmethuselah

My uncle was a British soldier in India, and, he explained to me an interesting phenomena that used to take place with surprising regularity in the days of the British Empire...(1800's)

It may shed some light on this question of "Christian Culture"...

Often an entirely reprobate son of the British aristocracy, a lazy dissolute creature, would be conveniently relocated to Africa or India when his presence became too much of an embarassment.

Many of these continued their dissipated lifestyle, but, an AMAZING transformation took place in more than a few...

THESE latter specimens, now faced with the reality of being the only white face in a sea of "foreigners" (as the Brits had the audacity of calling people even in their aboriginal setting), sort of ROSE TO THE OCCASION, began to exhibit standards of decency, fair play and stickability that they NEVER HAD in England.

Rising early, riding out to the "natives" on a horse, these "Sahibs" or "Bwanas" would often uphold the standards of the Empire doling out fair judgments with impartiality and no thought of personal gain...

now, it would be silly to think these folks had suddenly become Christians...but they sort of got caught up in "what was expected" of an English Christian officer and gentleman...

I do not comment here on their arrogant racism, or sense of superiority, only on the fact that they began to behave decently because they had - on some level - absorbed an idea of "Christian Culture"


LOL.
no, not nowadays.
i am on the local largest english forum community.
men can behave more like a gentleman back in the west, but once they are here in china for a period of time, they are easier to become a type of hooligan.



RJR_fan -> RE: B'wana and Sahib may hold the keys (4/25/2008 7:05:57 AM)

quote:

but once they are here in china for a period of time, they are easier to become a type of hooligan.


The first president of Singapore said, "We had to clean up the mess the Christians left behind."



Brachah -> RE: B'wana and Sahib may hold the keys (4/26/2008 1:28:03 PM)

i read something today. it reminds me sth:

sometimes, especially when the circumstance is a bit hard, it's more important to focus on personal spiritual well-being before u are ambitious to take the challenge of ur society.
but who knows? mayb when u r trying to communicate more with the society, many new friends wl come to help u, n u wl get more opportunities.
so it's actually an inter-act.
communication may bring positive n negative effect.
when too many negative effects happen, we need some retreat fm them. when positive effects happen, we need actively catch the chance.
in both situation, a G-d/me relation is truly the core of all relations, though it cannot replace other relations.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: B'wana and Sahib may hold the keys (4/26/2008 2:39:16 PM)

Yes, I think God needs to be at the core of all our relationships.
As we grow closer to Him, His love will show through us to others.



RJR_fan -> RE: B'wana and Sahib may hold the keys (4/27/2008 5:02:51 AM)

quote:

sometimes, especially when the circumstance is a bit hard, it's more important to focus on personal spiritual well-being before u are ambitious to take the challenge of ur society.


Abraham Kuyper developed the doctrine of "sphere sovereignty" that the Christian Reconstructionists embrace. Since God, the Blessed Trinity, is both One and Three, His work with humanity includes both the individual, and oath-bound collective entities. Each "sphere" has its own monopolies, and its own enforcing mechanisms. When each sphere functions well, society is blessed and prosperous.


Sphere: _______Monopoly: ______________Enforcement:
Family___________Sex and child rearing______The rod, inheritance
Church__________Sacraments______________the keys (excommunication)
Civil government__Capital punishment_______The sword


SO: We start where we are, and work out from there. The most powerful visible[1] tool God has given us for shaping history is our own family. Godly families can cohere to energize godly churches. Godly churches can raise up righteous civil leaders, and fully-informed jurors.

When the unbelievers are in power, guarding and guiding our own children becomes more obviously imperative. In the USA, the most evident result of Christian Reconstructionism isn't the "Moral Majority," or now-discredited notions of transforming our society from the top down by voting their rascals out of power, and our rascals into power. No, R J Rushdoony's heirs are the home schooling parents, and the awareness seeping out into the general public that public education is a satanic system.

"Our children are our future," the educrats shout -- then go on to claim the children of Christian families as the property of Caesar. The future belongs to those who are willing to pay for it -- with their own money, time, and attention. Not to those who surrender the most precious resources God ever entrusted them with to the enemies of God.



[1] This is a nod to Derek Prince's book Shaping History through Prayer and Fasting.



Brachah -> RE: B'wana and Sahib may hold the keys (4/27/2008 9:04:53 AM)

i dont think home schooling is the only solution.
why not send our children to christian schools, church schools?

home schooling is also not practical. both parents need to work to support family, no time for home schooling at all.
also the parents may have no education themselves, how can they teach their child by themselves? hire teachers? how many teachers needed? oh what a mess! i need perhaps 10-20 teachers including piano teacher, painting teacher, chess teacher, sports teacher, etc.

on the contrary, i have tolerance with secular schools, just as i have tolerance towards all the people in the society except criminals.
it's important to tell our child what is wrong with the secular system, n let them know the bible is 1st priority, church 2nd, secular 3rd.



Brachah -> RE: B'wana and Sahib may hold the keys (4/27/2008 9:35:38 AM)

quote:

oath-bound collective entities.


interesting concept.

if we trace history back even in the bible, every christians wl agree the christian churches are oathbound.

what about the jews? are they oathbound with christians? since the bible says all the jewish wl be saved, i believe the jews are someway oathbound (in a different way of christians).

what about the muslims? some people believe they are kind of oathbound in abraham.

what about other people of pagan beliefs n all the athiests, communists?? well, if u trace back to adam n eve, all humanity were some way oathbound, bcz G-d says he loves the world n send his son for human, not only for christians, nor any groups of people.

the bible tells us to love the outsiders, even our enemies, bcz G-d is our example, he created sun to shine on the "good" as well as the "evil". our mission as christians is perhaps to make people be aware of the oath of G-d (which is there) n try to bring them back to know G-d's agape love in christ jesus.



Brachah -> RE: B'wana and Sahib may hold the keys (4/27/2008 11:12:32 AM)

The Seventh-day Adventist Church accepts the doctrine of the Kingdom of God dividing it into two phases. These are, the Kingdom of Grace which was established immediately after Adam and Eve sinned, and the Kingdom of Glory which will be fully established when Christ returns to earth for the second time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_God

A commonly accepted premise of millennialism is that this Messianic rule promised in the Old Testament has been postponed until God's purposes in the New Testament church have been fulfilled. (including the pre-tribulational pre-millennialism)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology



davelinde -> christian culture (4/27/2008 9:34:19 PM)

Thought I'd check back in on this thread... I keep seeing things that make me think of it.

Last night I saw something relating to Hawaiian culture and the observation that originally they viewed the land differently when they thought that the land was owned by "the gods" and those gods expected certain things of them. The observation was made that when Christian missionaries arrived and taught about a different God who was worshiped and served in a different way the Hawaiian culture changed.

A separate observation is that I thought this thread was about the idea of a Judeo/Christian culture in the west and what it is like (posed by a person in the East in a culture being impacted by Christ). I was struck by a few reactions that "there is no such thing as Christian culture and/or for sure the west is not it..."

I think the Bible describes Christian community pretty clearly though - and yes Western and/or American culture is NOT that. But a good summary of what it would look like (which transcends secular cultures) is found in Titus 3:1-10.

And last... homeschooling (we do it btw) is a counter-cultural way of attempting to reclaim kids from a hostile culture. I will not argue it's the only way. My wife and I were products of private Christian schools and that worked out for us - though not perfectly for sure. There are a range of possible solutions to the problem here... and homeschooling is sure one of the answers in the culture and situation I'm living now.



RJR_fan -> RE: christian culture (4/28/2008 4:49:23 AM)

quote:

And last... homeschooling (we do it btw) is a counter-cultural way of attempting to reclaim kids from a hostile culture. I will not argue it's the only way. My wife and I were products of private Christian schools and that worked out for us


Actually, Christian education, whether in the home or in parent-funded Christian schools, simply refuses up front to hand the children over to the hostile culture. No need to "reclaim" what we never relinquish!

We do have two rival faiths contending for the future. Christians are charged to raise their own children, at their own expense, in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, for God's purposes, for God's glory. We have been entrusted with something of infinite value, the lives, hearts, and minds of little critters who will live forever, in one of two places.

Then, on the other hand, the devotees of today's Moloch, The State, say that they have the right to confiscate 30 hours a week of our children's lives today -- and to send our children to kill and be killed in foreign countries after they grow up.

Meanwhile, whenever taxation exceeds 10%, we have a civil government claiming to be more important than God, and seeing itself as entitled to lay claim to chunks of our lives (tax monies) for its grandiose schemes.

I pay my taxes, in full, since "it's only money." My children, though, are not mine to hand off to Caesar. They are the Lord's, and woe is my lot if I fail in that assignment. Billy Sunday had a million notches on his Bible, and lost all three of his sons to booze, broads, and boodle. He was not a successful minister of the gospel. Those million strangers were less important than his three sons, I believe.

Meanwhile -- as public schools continue to manufacture incompetence, the future belongs to principled and competent young people. They are a far more reliable retirement plan than "social security." Definitely a much more pleasurable investment.



davelinde -> RE: christian culture (4/28/2008 8:58:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RJR_fan

quote:

And last... homeschooling (we do it btw) is a counter-cultural way of attempting to reclaim kids from a hostile culture...


Actually, Christian education, whether in the home or in parent-funded Christian schools, simply refuses up front to hand the children over to the hostile culture. No need to "reclaim" what we never relinquish!



Agreed, reclaim was the wrong word in this context.

So another way to look at this is that the culture is built on the collective norms, values, character etc of the groups the make it up. The family is a basic building block in all the culture I know about. How the kids are taught will shape the culture of the next generation. So what is taught is essential to culture. It used to be the case that the Bible was taught in school in the west.



RJR_fan -> RE: christian culture (4/28/2008 6:27:03 PM)

quote:

It used to be the case that the Bible was taught in school in the west.


And is now a mandatory part of the curriculum in Russia. Go figure.

Well, I figure our smug secularism is on God's "to do list" -- but pray He gets to us after dealing with Islam.



Brachah -> RE: christian culture (4/29/2008 5:11:42 AM)

yes, that's the problem of the americans.
too many immigrants. the minorities are increasing to a point to threat the former mainstream culture. it's a lesson for the nations around the world. u shud only import christians fm the beginning. :)



Brachah -> RE: christian culture (4/29/2008 5:32:01 AM)

secularism is not on God's to do list. it's on human's to do list.
what can God do if humans decide n choose already on their own?



Brachah -> RE: christian culture (4/29/2008 6:16:07 AM)

speaking of secularism, i have an example: internet forums

forum #1
there was a huge christian forum (much bigger than CW).

the webmaster a few months ago, sold the forum to another christian, n he started his own forum, - a social networking forum (let's mark it forum #2) i/o christian forum. of course the owner is still christian.

on that huge christian forum, it's not allowed to call JW a cult. this is moderated by a so called super-admin who is a messianic.

forum #3
there is a huge chinese secular forum. n on the forum, there are a lot of groups. in the biggest christian group, u can discuss everything within the laws of PRC. i feel i am so free there.

so, now, u tell me which forum is good? forum #1, or 2 or 3?
traditionally i also believe a christian forum MUST be better than a secular forum. but facing the reality, i know it's not this simple.
n if sb tells he is on a secular forum, i wont judge quickly that forum is not suitable or good for a christian.



RJR_fan -> RE: christian culture (4/29/2008 6:21:30 AM)

quote:

secularism is not on God's to do list. it's on human's to do list.
what can God do if humans decide n choose already on their own?


Read Psalm 2. All conspiracies are ultimately against "The LORD, and His anointed," and all are met by mocking laughter from Heaven. Then, a rod of iron.

American secular humanism has been one of the most influential anti-God movements in all of history, stealing the hearts of children from their fathers and their fathers' God for more than 150 years -- with the active and willing cooperation of Christian parents. Hey, millions of schoolkids in California are now subject to K-12 sodomite propaganda -- and most Christian parents there are cool with it. On the one hand, you have to wonder, what will it take to wake them up? OTOH, though, God always works through minorities, God always has His saving remnant, God always has other "tricks up His sleeve."

Ultimately, the question isn't "What shall THAT man do?" (John 22) but "will I take up MY cross and do my assigned task?"



Brachah -> RE: christian culture (4/29/2008 7:00:19 AM)

ok, i have given some good example of secular forum, let's have a look of a "bad" secular forum.

i dont know the webmaster is christian or not. i posted on my page the video "amazing grace", the webmaster came to my page n added in the comments another "amazing grace" video. so, at least i guess this webmaster is at least pro-christian.

now the problem:
the forum has 1500 members, n is increasing everyday a few new members (5-10). there is no mods. the rules are very simple, incomplete, n not well implemented. there are a lot of racist posts n salacious posts. it's very dangerous members may turn this social networking site into an informal dating site.

now, how u wud view on this forum?
as a christian i was angry with the problems there. why? as a chinese, i felt hurt by the racist posts. as a woman, i felt molested by the salacious posts. as a christian, i felt isolated bcz there are only less than 5 christians n they dont want to join together.

i even think many of the members are criminals, bcz according to china internet laws, those posts already break the laws n regulations.
but is it my biz or my job? no, it's the biz n job of the chinese government n of the webmaster. nothing to do with me. why shud i be angry or even care?

matt10.28, luke12.4
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

bodily, or soully i am a chinese, i am a woman, i am minority as a christian, i mayb get hurted. bcz a body or a soul is fragile n sensitive n easy to get hurted. but as a spirit, i belong to no country, no gender, no number, all the problems cannot touch my spirit. only myself can determine the destiny of my spirit.

i am an observer on this earth n on that forum. if sometimes we cannot have the good w/o the bad, my spirit can make us strong enuf to stick to the good ones n overlook the bad ones. n finally enjoy some fellowship with the decent people. or mayb 1 day they wl come to the house of G-d, the best result of all our hopes.



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: christian culture (4/29/2008 10:09:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brachah

ok, i have given some good example of secular forum, let's have a look of a "bad" secular forum.




I think I understand what you are saying. I think that a Christian forum, should allow us to speak openly and freely. The problem is, these forums are open to everyone, atheists, Muslims and Christians alike. Which is good and bad. So we have to watch what is said, and there are restrictions to topics, and so forth. Personally, if I as a Christian was on a forum and had all that crude behavior going on, I would not go back to that forum. It is a tough choice to make, because those are the people we need to reach. The lost and confused. But it is easier, I would think for them to lure us back into that behavior, than for us to bring them into the light.
All in all, I think we have a pretty good forum here, and am happy with how things are going.

So I would stay away from any secular forums, and any Christian forums that are not regulated as to allow the types of things you are talking about to happen.



jmjphe -> RE: What is the difference between christian faith & christain culture? (4/29/2008 3:04:09 PM)

I feel that Christian Faith/Culture are one in the same. Its been an obscrued view that the "Christian Culture" is a western type of thing, images of a white suburban family with two kids and a dog may conjure up or something similar. The fact is that the christian lifestyle can be seen worldwide, id argue that a christian individual from the US, who ventures out to help those in need and to speak the gospel would find that there are many different cultures who follow christ. Iv'e seen small villages in remote parts of africa who have turned to christ and yet, although they follow and hunger to grow in the exact same prinicples as you or i, they may live differently, in that they may eat, dress, greet, socialize, and practice different mannerisms, yet they follow christ as lord and savior and yearn for that growing relationship with God.

But if we are going to differenciate the two than i would say that the "culture" here is of social habit, like the term "sunday christian" where an individual is involved with the church community, yet doesnt make God there 1st priority outside of that. Where as with faith, its practiced nearly 24/7 and the faith that pursues a relationship with God usually leads a person to a church community to strenghten/grow spritually and to do good for humanity.



RJR_fan -> RE: christian culture (4/29/2008 5:06:14 PM)

quote:

but is it my biz or my job? no, it's the biz n job of the chinese government n of the webmaster. nothing to do with me. why shud i be angry or even care?


The book Who Owns the Family? (written by Robert Thoburn, I believe, and available at this linked site, for free) recommends establishing a Christian dynasty as a worthy task for Christians. How can we conduct ourselves today in such a way as to ensure that our grandchildren will have opportunities, and be influential? The writer analyzed a number of great families, Christian and unbelieving, and found a number of common traits. The one surprising element many had in common was -- an ability to be around wickedness, without being corrupted by it. For example, the prominent gangster families of the American Prohibition era were usually Italian or Jewish. The custom of serving wine with meals predisposed these groups to treat alcohol as another foodstuff, to be handled with discretion. Another example was David Sassoon, who piled up great wealth in the opium trade (please accept my apology for the sins of my ancestors against yours, there). Finally, Pat Robertson made the satellite TV industry possible -- and ultimately, cable TV -- by simply removing the copyright from his flagship program The 700 Club. When Hollywood tried to strangle the satellite dish business in its cradle, claiming that dish owners could steal copyrighted material, these folks could say -- "Hey! I just bought it to watch The 700 Club!" Granted, a lot of what goes over cable is salacious. Wicked. Degrading. But Christian programs also travel freely.

Daniel and Joseph served unbelieving rulers with nobility and distinction.

Still, I am lifting my prayers to heaven on your behalf today, so that you will not get discouraged. The parable of the Sower tells us that 75% of our efforts might be wasted -- but the 25% that takes root will produce 3,000%, 6,000%, or 10,000% returns.



Brachah -> RE: christian culture (4/30/2008 3:31:06 AM)

i have accounts marked as observer(s) on those "dangerous" forums (christian or non-christian). i was there bcz i think it's hard to completely ignore them - 1 is indeed the largest christian site (over 200,000 members), n another 1 is the largest local english forum where i live.

rjrfan, tks for ur posts.
i agree with u when we try to reach out, they are also trying to reach in to us with lots of nonsense, blindness, stubbornness, n best "zeal" for their ego. n that's the exact danger if we waste futher time on those nonsense. that's the side which is pushing me away fm the secularism.

u also touched the other side, keep our integrity n distinction among unbelievers or secularists. actually this part is more encouraging to me, bcz it's realistic, n demands more wisdom, more strength, more courage.

it's time we focus on the good, n ignore the bad, do some "homework" before enter the battlefield again. :)



Brachah -> RE: christian culture (4/30/2008 3:41:25 AM)

quote:

All in all, I think we have a pretty good forum here, and am happy with how things are going.


cw is great. it's a place we equip ourselves as christians. it's our "spiritual" home. i hope i can meet some of u face to face 1 day on earth or in heaven. :) for those who spend most of their time or life in "battlefields" know more how to cherish a sweet home like cw. gbu all!



sparkleingsnow -> RE: christian culture (4/30/2008 9:45:04 AM)

quote:

Original: Brachah

cw is great. it's a place we equip ourselves as christians. it's our "spiritual" home. i hope i can meet some of u face to face 1 day on earth or in heaven. :) for those who spend most of their time or life in "battlefields" know more how to cherish a sweet home like cw. gbu all!


Agreed and God Bless you too Brachah. :)



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