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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:09:54 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
[Do I spend a ton of money in the long run on a bunch of disposable junky stuff or buy one or two quality items that will last.
I say give a ton of money to the poor and ask yourself as you buy any item, do you really need it, could it be best spent somewhere else.
that's stewardship to me. maybe I'm wrong.
do I even want to examine everyones, heart, no, I have my own to think about
I want to answer the post, is this Christian? 8 $20,000 purses; how do we tell a Christian, by their fruits!
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Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:11:12 PM
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Qtman
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The problem is to many of you are trying to put a dollar value on materialism. It has no dollar value. I am a man and do not carry a purse of any value but I do have a $5 wallet. If in my heart I place a spiritual value on that wallet higher than the spirit of God, IOW if I let that wallet come between me and God than that is materialism.
Tracydolls no one said you added to any scripture. What was said was you quoted verses out of context and indeed you do. You seem to take a verse out of the middle of a dialogue and use it to justify a position you choose to believe when it the conversation waas read in its entirety it would lead to a totally different conclusion. Using your method I can prove the world is a flat rectangular object. There is a verse in the Bible in Revelations that says in the end an Angel will stand on all four corners of the world. No kidding its in the Bible. This verse taken by itsself proves the world is flat. Also in the Gospels it says the Apostles were all in one accord. Therefore I can say with Biblical certainty the Honda was the first ar produced. Ridiculous ain't it. That is exactly what you are doing when you make a post about the rich.
_____________________________
MERRY CHRISTMAS! For those that do not partake Happy December 25th
Body Piercings
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:15:17 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4986
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quote:
The problem is to many of you are trying to put a dollar value on materialism. It has no dollar value. I am a man and do not carry a purse of any value but I do have a $5 wallet. If in my heart I place a spiritual value on that wallet higher than the spirit of God, IOW if I let that wallet come between me and God than that is materialism.
Good post. There is no line to draw, no "limit" to try and define. We don't get 90% to do what we want with and God gets 10%. It's all God's money. If we start to think that we are the owners of our money, we forget we are only the stewards and that we will answer to God for what He gave us to manage for Him. We can be just as materialistic at Walmart as anywhere else.
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:15:19 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
Tracydolls no one said you added to any scripture. What was said was you quoted verses out of context and indeed you do.
No I don't quote them out of context, I don't quote them. I post them. Now you tried to explain this away by saying it's a song that Mary sang, I said it's in the Bible, you said.........quote:
Your Reference to Luke 1:53 is what is known as Mary's song. She was simply singing praises to God for all he had done.
I'm not taking them out of context, Luk 1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 5/1/2008 5:25:29 PM >
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:16:22 PM
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doinkdom
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the point was not about Wal-Mart specifically - I was trying to make a comparison of spending a little more for better quality that will not have to be replaced as often...it goes for clothing as well as appliances, cars, tractors, goats...
I was referring to stewardship and how to line that up with scripture with regards to the perceived rich and their spending habits.
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:17:26 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 9940
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Tracydolls no one said you added to any scripture. What was said was you quoted verses out of context and indeed you do.
No I don't quote them out of context, I don't quote them. I post them like I am posting this one. Now you tried to explain this away by saying it's a song that Mary sang, I said it's in the Bible, you said.........
My friend, if I may call you that, any time you take a verse, single it out, remove it from the entire conversation you are quoting out of context. And yes that verse is also out of context.
_____________________________
MERRY CHRISTMAS! For those that do not partake Happy December 25th
Body Piercings
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:19:25 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4986
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quote:
the point was not about Wal-Mart specifically - I was trying to make a comparison of spending a little more for better quality that will not have to be replaced as often...it goes for clothing as well as appliances, cars, tractors, goats...
I was referring to stewardship and how to line that up with scripture with regards to the perceived rich and their spending habits.
I totally agree with your point.
I don't think a $20,000 purse qualifies, but I do agree with your point of spending more to buy something of qualify.
_____________________________
<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:23:31 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
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quote:
My friend, if I may call you that, any time you take a verse, single it out, remove it from the entire conversation you are quoting out of context. And yes that verse is also out of context.
Yes, friend,How can you take a verse that is sang in a song that says the rich are sent away and take it out of context.
the rich are sent away, that's what I take it to mean, it don't mean what it say?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:25:14 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
I was referring to stewardship and how to line that up with scripture with regards to the perceived rich and their spending habits.
We don't have to percieve the rich. You can see the rich.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:28:32 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
You seem to take a verse out of the middle of a dialogue and use it to justify a position you choose to believe when it the conversation waas read in its entirety it would lead to a totally different conclusion.
I post verses in the middle of any dialogue. I am defending the poor, what's your reason for justifying your position?
quote:
There is a verse in the Bible in Revelations that says in the end an Angel will stand on all four corners of the world. No kidding its in the Bible. This verse taken by itsself proves the world is flat. Also in the Gospels it says the Apostles were all in one accord. Therefore I can say with Biblical certainty the Honda was the first ar produced. Ridiculous ain't it. That is exactly what you are doing when you make a post about the rich.
LOL I've read the Bible, I don't where flat can come out of it, but ok.
An accord is a Honda?
OK
Nope, the verses are very clear on the rich and poor. I don't try to swap the poor from the rich. I also have researched the word rich in Hebrew and Greek texts, just like you can do the word accord.
Luk 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
How can a person take out of context. Who are the rich he is talking about?
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 5/1/2008 5:37:40 PM >
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:31:03 PM
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CoeurdeLeon_
Posts: 9470
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
I was referring to stewardship and how to line that up with scripture with regards to the perceived rich and their spending habits.
We don't have to percieve the rich. You can see the rich.
But everyone is rich compared to someone else. "Rich" is perceived.
_____________________________
This morning I was awakened by the sound of purple
colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
Eutychus
10.13.08
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:35:57 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
But everyone is rich compared to someone else. "Rich" is perceived.
If a poor person meets me compared to Bill Gates, I don't think they would be that confused.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:42:04 PM
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CoeurdeLeon_
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OH! So you're just talking about the ultra-rich. The rest of us are off the hook then, eh?
_____________________________
This morning I was awakened by the sound of purple
colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
Eutychus
10.13.08
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:43:41 PM
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WalkingwithHim2
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
But everyone is rich compared to someone else. "Rich" is perceived.
If a poor person meets me compared to Bill Gates, I don't think they would be that confused.
But you yourself said that you have or have had more than I do so then you are the rich person, right?
_____________________________
Jesus saves the soul not necessarily the brain
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:55:51 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
But you yourself said that you have or have had more than I do so then you are the rich person, right?
No. I got saved and gave it up. I used to hang around people that made $100,000 in 24 hr periods.
Are they rich?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 5:58:07 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
OH! So you're just talking about the ultra-rich. The rest of us are off the hook then, eh?
I don't own a hook to hook you with, so yes, if your asking me.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 6:19:06 PM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
Defending the poor is about protecting them legally, they are equal in status, equal rights, etc. and this particular country is set up very well for that.
absolutely....great point....as the U.S. has the best "track record" BY FAR at providing the "the poor" OPPORTUNITIES to CEASE being "poor"...
Our country's history is packed with people who had been born into a family who was poor and in poverty, and yet, eventually became successful and had great wealth.....and, many many more are capable of, and have accomplished, the "jump" from "Poverty" to at least solidly "middle class". And, even those people are "successful" in their own right. As even they are looked upon by many as being "rich".
No social "caste" system...no politburo/KGB-types snuffing out success....no government bureaucrat telling you where to live, where to work, etc...etc...
Approximately $3 Trillion dollars (yep..with a "t") has been spent on "the war on poverty", since enacted in the 1960s. Where has that got us? Well, to the point, that just giving money out doesn't really work. It just perpetuates the problem.
no other country in history has the success of "poor" people that America does. none. and no one else is even close.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 6:25:46 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
[Defending the poor is about protecting them legally, they are equal in status, equal rights, etc. and this particular country is set up very well for that.
agreed, it is set up for it but doenst do very well.
quote:
Approximately $3 Trillion dollars (yep..with a "t") has been spent on "the war on poverty", since enacted in the 1960s. Where has that got us? Well, to the point, that just giving money out doesn't really work. It just perpetuates the problem.
my point exactly, we are losing the war on poverty
quote:
no other country in history has the success of "poor" people that America does. none. and no one else is even close.
why does poor people have to be just America? I would say that we have not a had very good success" with the poor, as evidenced by the "war on poverty" you mentioned.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 8:59:53 PM
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SonInMe1
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Who witnesses to the rich?
I think we focus on the material more than the spiritual when we talk about christian charity. We give everything we can to the poor...and often overlook their spiritual needs.....and we don't give anything to the rich...and overlook their spiritual needs.
Rich people need Jesus too. Rich people are no more evil than poor people. Its only in our material orientated society we put importance on being rich or poor.
Scripture only refutes the popular opinion of that day that rich people are rich because they have been blessed by God. That being rich means you are righteous. All the scripture against being rich and against looking down on the poor are in the bible to refute that common held belief system....rich=good....poor=bad.
Money won't save you. Poverty won't save you. Only Jesus saves.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/1/2008 9:42:25 PM
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Qtman
Posts: 9940
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From: Crimson Tide Country
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Who witnesses to the rich?
I think we focus on the material more than the spiritual when we talk about christian charity. We give everything we can to the poor...and often overlook their spiritual needs.....and we don't give anything to the rich...and overlook their spiritual needs.
Rich people need Jesus too. Rich people are no more evil than poor people. Its only in our material orientated society we put importance on being rich or poor.
Scripture only refutes the popular opinion of that day that rich people are rich because they have been blessed by God. That being rich means you are righteous. All the scripture against being rich and against looking down on the poor are in the bible to refute that common held belief system....rich=good....poor=bad.
Money won't save you. Poverty won't save you. Only Jesus saves.
First of all let me say I agree with you. I have made more than one post saying possessions do not equate to materialism. Also that riches do not equate to evil or sin.
However we are both butting our heads against the proverbial brick wall. Even I would be considered rich by some standards. I live in a nice house, my wife and I both drive nice vehicles, we both try to wear nice clothing. But all of these are just things. They have no value in my heart. Don't get me wrong I am not ignorant of their financial value. I know what each of those things are worth in dollars but that does not matter. The only things that have any value in my heart are my salvation, my wife, kids and grandkids. Everything else can be replaced. I would not jump off the brdge if anyting I own was destroyed tonight. I would just work and replace them when I could afford it.
_____________________________
MERRY CHRISTMAS! For those that do not partake Happy December 25th
Body Piercings
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/2/2008 7:52:18 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3400
Joined: 4/16/2005
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I got nothing. Doesn't look like I ever will have anything and guess what?
I don't hate rich people. Its not their fault I am financially challenged. Its...mine. I was a fool and reaped the rewards of that.
That is life.
Oh well.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Materialism to what limit? - 5/2/2008 9:18:11 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1341
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
no other country in history has the success of "poor" people that America does. none. and no one else is even close.
why does poor people have to be just America? I would say that we have not a had very good success" with the poor, as evidenced by the "war on poverty" you mentioned.
Because WE can't do anything about "the poor".....the POOR have to have the initiative to seek out opportunities. Those just aren't "handed out"....
Personal experience. My father grew up in poverty in Northeastern West Virginia. Upon barely graduating high school, he left that area, in 1963, and moved to Detroit where he knew he could get a job in an auto factory. (a major exodus of people occured from the end of WWII until the mid/late 1960s from the southern states to Detroit)..... That's where he met my mom, where I was born, etc...etc...and we lived an "ok" lower-middle class life in our very "working class" neighborhood in Detroit. Most of my dad's relatives chose to stay put. (and, whenever we visited, my sisters and I were the "rich city brats")... In the meantime, I went to college and all that, and I am doing even better (financially) than my father did (and my peak earning years are ahead of me)....and, yet, my uncles/cousins and other relatives of my dad's are still there. Waiting for someone to "take care of them". To "provide" for them. Complaining.
And, many back in my "old neighborhood" in Detroit, also has resentment and jealousy....because of what happened with me...as I took the initiative to get out of there....(all i have to do is say my wife is a stay-at-home mom....or, briefly mention in a simple conversation what we did on our last vacation, and the "fireworks" begin!!!!)....
Why does poor people have to be just America? Huh? Poor people exist ONLY in America? Hopefully that's not what you're trying to say.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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