RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (Full Version)

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THEREDCAPE -> RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 8:53:16 AM)

Any information on this group? I was linked to their website, and saw them refer the the Holy Spirit as the "wild goose", lot of celtic symbolism, and odd statements.

It was hard to see exactly what they believe, however. Does anyone have any information? Seemed very new agey to me.



earthless -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 9:13:00 AM)

Apart from the many teachings he espouses which are problematic.. Eldredge teaches men to listen for God’s leading apart from the Scripture. He claims that God speaks even through carnal, worldly things:

quote:

“God is intimately personal with us and he speaks in ways that are peculiar to our own quirky hearts--not just through the Bible, but through the whole creation. To Stasi he speaks through movies. To Craig he speaks through rock and roll. … God’s word to me comes in many ways--through sunsets and friends and films and music and wilderness and books. But he’s got an especially humorous thing going with me and books. I’ll be browsing through a secondhand book shop when out of a thousand volumes one will say, ‘Pick me up’--just like Augustine in his Confessions. Tolle legge--take up and read” (Eldredge, Wild at Heart, p. 200).



mcleod -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 9:30:21 AM)

If it's truthful it would be okay. But not then if it's not throw into the fire.



mcleod -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 9:32:26 AM)

We jus tneed a few more nuts on the scene. There is got to be something wrong with the water here on earth.



Kat_D -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 9:58:41 AM)

Classic example of the psycho babel that has infiltrated the church today..that, and a reducing of the value and importance of the Word of God in a Christian's life. One of the most serious offending teachings is in his book, "Wild at Heart"...

“Too many Christians today are living back in the old covenant. They’ve had Jeremiah 17:9 drilled into them and they walk around believing my heart is deceitfully wicked. Not anymore it’s not. Read the rest of the book. In Jeremiah 31:33, God announces the cure for all that: ‘I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.’ I will give you a new heart. That’s why Paul says in Romans 2:29, ‘No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly, and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit.’ Sin is not the deepest thing about you. You have a new heart. Did you hear me? Your heart is good. … The Big Lie in the church today is that you are nothing more than ‘a sinner saved by grace.’ You are a lot more than that. You are a new creation in Christ. The New Testament calls you a saint, a holy one, a son of God. In the core of your being you are a good man. Yes, there is a war within us, but it is a civil war. The battle is not between us and God; no, there is a traitor within who wars against the true heart fighting alongside the Spirit of God in us” (Eldredge, Wild at Heart, pp. 133, 134, 144

Um, no Mr. Eldridge, this is what the Bible says and God's Word (not your writings) should trump everything else for Christians:

9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? 10 I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings. 11 "As a partridge that broods but does not hatch, So is he who gets riches, but not by right; It will leave him in the midst of his days, And at his end he will be a fool."
- Jeremiah 17:9

Yes, we have a new nature in Christ but that does not in any way, shape or form eliminate our sin nature.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. -Romans 7

15 Then Peter answered and said to Him, "Explain this parable to us." 16 So Jesus said, "Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. 20 These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man." -Matthew 15

“He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered” -Proverbs 28:26



doinkdom -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 10:44:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Classic example of the psycho babel that has infiltrated the church today..that, and a reducing of the value and importance of the Word of God in a Christian's life.


{{{{{{Kat}}}}}}}}}

[sm=thumbsup.gif]



GroupW -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 11:14:23 AM)

"Cult" might be a bit of a strong word. Their statement of faith is not unlike CrossWalk's. The folks there tend to have affiliations with the same denominations of churches that you see here. Overall, the populations are quite similar in terms of theology and background. You will notice a difference in the words people use to describe spiritual things. RH tends to reach out more for the person who is disenchanted or dissatisfied with formal organized church, so it has a bit of a freewheeling streak. CW is a bit more staid in that respect.

Overall, I find the differences stylistic rather than theological.

The difference between what you see in Eldridge vs what you see above in Kat's post is maybe like asking which blade in a pair of scissors is most important (to borrow a CS Lewis quote.)

Is my heart deceptively wicked? Yes.
Is this the most important thing about me? No. The fact of my redemption through Christ offers me hope of more than that.

I post over there as well under the name that I used to go by here (bterpstra there, groupw here). I find both places to be interesting. I do find that it's easier over there to discuss ideas that are controversial.

Both have their faults. The forum there is largely unadministered, so there aren't any natural checks when threads go too far. The forums here are very strongly administered, so at times threads don't go far enough.

Both environments have their place.



cybrjewls -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 11:22:28 AM)

It is written that God Spoke and created all these worldly things by The Power of His Spoken Word: Let there be Light, and there was light and God saw that it was good. God Prophesied it into existence; the 'Big Bang'. Therefore, the Apostle admonishes us that no one has any excuse for God was made known through what was made.

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Apart from the many teachings he espouses which are problematic.. Eldredge teaches men to listen for God’s leading apart from the Scripture. He claims that God speaks even through carnal, worldly things:

quote:

“God is intimately personal with us and he speaks in ways that are peculiar to our own quirky hearts--not just through the Bible, but through the whole creation. To Stasi he speaks through movies. To Craig he speaks through rock and roll. … God’s word to me comes in many ways--through sunsets and friends and films and music and wilderness and books. But he’s got an especially humorous thing going with me and books. I’ll be browsing through a secondhand book shop when out of a thousand volumes one will say, ‘Pick me up’--just like Augustine in his Confessions. Tolle legge--take up and read” (Eldredge, Wild at Heart, p. 200).



GroupW -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 11:35:27 AM)

Now THAT's a unique handle.

As a hiker/backpacker, I find some truth in this. I was out once with a group of non-christian guys in the Sangre de Christo's. At the end of a 10-day, 115 mile trip, we all stood around a campfire and talked about what we've learned. Two things came up:

1) You can always do more than you think. When you're too tired to take another step, you can always take one more step. You have no excuse for sitting down & giving up or for not paying attention.

2) How does anyone NOT believe there was a creator. Nature practically grabs our heads by the ears and turns our heads heavenward.



THEREDCAPE -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 1:00:10 PM)

Here is a link to an article concerning a new book they have written,"Captivating":
book review

The review gives insight into what seems to be an unorthodox and error filled organization.



Kat_D -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 1:01:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GroupW

"Cult" might be a bit of a strong word. Their statement of faith is not unlike CrossWalk's. The folks there tend to have affiliations with the same denominations of churches that you see here. Overall, the populations are quite similar in terms of theology and background. You will notice a difference in the words people use to describe spiritual things. RH tends to reach out more for the person who is disenchanted or dissatisfied with formal organized church, so it has a bit of a freewheeling streak. CW is a bit more staid in that respect.

Overall, I find the differences stylistic rather than theological.

The difference between what you see in Eldridge vs what you see above in Kat's post is maybe like asking which blade in a pair of scissors is most important (to borrow a CS Lewis quote.)

Is my heart deceptively wicked? Yes.
Is this the most important thing about me? No. The fact of my redemption through Christ offers me hope of more than that.

I post over there as well under the name that I used to go by here (bterpstra there, groupw here). I find both places to be interesting. I do find that it's easier over there to discuss ideas that are controversial.

Both have their faults. The forum there is largely unadministered, so there aren't any natural checks when threads go too far. The forums here are very strongly administered, so at times threads don't go far enough.

Both environments have their place.


This thread really isn't only about their forums it's about John Eldredge's teachings/books which are the basis of their forums. However, after visiting there this morning, if some of their thread titles are an indication of his teachings, I am not impressed. Here are a few:

God as a Boyfriend

God as Romantic Lover

Licking the Cup (that's what those of us who believe the Bible is our fundamental Truth do verses drinking from the cup which is apparently what John Eldredge followers do)

Sex in Heaven

The Knight and His Lady...Romancing Jesus

Dancing Naked (as a form of worship)

These threads speak volumes that the new movement in the church that wants to take the Lord down to the lowest, most base, human level has infiltrated that site. I also saw that the "F" word and other offensive language used liberally and there was no moderation interference. To me, it was a rather disrespectful, no holds barred, say whatever you want sort of place that bears no witness to what God's Word says about how Christians should behave.

"17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. 20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness." -Ephesians 4

"8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth." -Colossians 3

Both environments have their place? Well, for you maybe, but not for me.



GroupW -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 1:11:14 PM)

Not all of RH is for me either. The threads you posted aren't ones that I felt comfortable going into. You'll also see within the threads you mention that there's some disagreement within that community on those topics.

Some of the WAH / Captivating stuff doesn't sit well with me either, but there are other aspects to RH's outlook that I do find compelling. A focus on where we are headed in Christ as opposed to where we are right now. A focus less on what I'm doing wrong and more on what I could be doing that's right.

I'm not a huge fan of Eldredge, but there are a collection of people there that, though imperfect, love the lord dearly and I enjoy them. Same as here.

Some of the folks there don't feel like they fit here and vice versa.

God's heart is big - there's room for both and we don't have to have it 100% right to fit there. RH or CW, he takes us both in gladly.

Edit: Re the threads I've avoided - there are some goofy threads here too that I avoid, though on balance RH probably has the goofier threads. I kind of like that - part of the idea is throw something outrageous out there and toss it around for a while. What can you learn if you do that? Personally, I don't think you can take some of those thread headers too seriously. They're intended to grab your attention and be as outrageous as they sound.



lw9 -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 1:21:56 PM)

There's nothing hostile about asking a question and there was nothing even remotely hostile in redcape's posts. This is a forum, which means issues will be discussed and questions will be asked. After looking through what Eldredge teaches, I would classify Eldredge as a definite danger zone.

[edited to remove quotation of deleted material]



Kat_D -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 1:22:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lw9



There's nothing hostile about asking a question and there was nothing even remotely hostile in redcape's posts. This is a forum, which means issues will be discussed and questions will be asked. After looking through what Eldredge teaches, I would classify Eldredge as a definite danger zone.


Amen!

[edited to remove quotation of deleted material]



AoibhinnGrainne -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 1:23:56 PM)

The Ransomed Heart Forum has almost 400,000 posts in over 23,000 threads. I was active there for three years with 6000+ posts and here is what is also being discussed:

When Men Are Honest ABout Their Struggles (Issues Forum)
Are We Expressing Joy (Issues Forum)

Chocoholics, What's Your Poison (Community and Fun)
Seen Any Good Movies Lately? (Community and Fun)

Pride, Self-righteousness (Life of the Heart)
A Call to the Forum Men For Help (Life of the Heart)

The thread about Jesus as "homeboy" or "boyfriend" soundly refutes that ideology...something often found in mystical literature of the medieval Church and NOT taught by Ransomed Heart Ministries.

Has anyone here read any of the books or attended any of the retreats? Sometimes it is easier to refute something when you actually know whereof you speak. I remember in my youth trying to refute Protestantism by reading a book written by a Catholic priest LOL!!! Not so much LOL!!!

And, btw, Captivating has been out for three years, and there is a lot of good in there. God used it to bring much healing to me and my late Husband, an Elder in a very conservative Calvinist Church, in the weeks before he died.

No book, written by man, has the lock on infallibility or inerrancy. Probably the wisest thing one can do is read like a Berean and toss what one finds to be unScriptural.

I've done that with Eldredge, Luther (and his anti-Semitism), Augustine, and so on...

Go with God as you apporach all things with discernment.

Aoi.



GroupW -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 1:28:33 PM)

Thanks for articulating my view for me (and done much better.)



lw9 -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 1:50:58 PM)

quote:

AoibhinnGrainne: No book, written by man, has the lock on infallibility or inerrancy. Probably the wisest thing one can do is read like a Berean and toss what one finds to be unScriptural.


I must strongly disagree with that concept. Putting aside Eldredge for a moment, we are told to reject false teachers, false prophets, false signs and wonders, and have nothing to do with them. That alone tells us that there does come a point when we shouldn't be sifting through bad teachings trying to find a nugget but instead are to reject them. We are not told to continue learning from people who teach falsely and contradict sound doctrine.

Now back to Eldredge. Whether Eldredge falls into the bonafide false teacher category or not, I don't know yet, but I see some major problems already. His teachings are off... way off. We are not called to follow our hearts and our desires, which are not trustworthy or an indicator of truth. We are called to follow Christ. We are sinful and the 'core of our being' is not good [Matt 19:17, Rom 3:9-12, Rom 6-7]. It's the Holy Spirit within us Who is good. Eldredge is completely at odds with scripture on this point.

Another example from Ransomed Heart Ministries:

quote:

"There are two basic approaches to life: One is to live from duty, the other from desire. One of them will kill your soul.

In The Journey of Desire John writes, "We all share the same dilemma - we long for life, and we're not sure where to find it. We wonder, if we ever do find it, can we make it last? ... Our days come to us as a riddle, and the answers aren't handed out with our birth certificates. We must journey to find the life we prize. And the guide we have been given is the desire set deep within - the desire we often overlook or mistake for something else or even choose to ignore."

"The modern church often teaches people to kill desire and calls that sanctification. "But," Eldredge says, "Christianity is not an invitation to become a moral person. It is not a program for getting us in line or for reforming society. ... At its core Christianity begins with an invitation to desire."

The secret of your life was written by God in your heart's desire.


Someone needs to tell Eldredge that Christ IS our guide, our truth, and our life. He has given us all the answers we need in writing.

These are very dangerous messages he's spouting and it gives his followers a license to follow themselves and their desires in the name of 'following God'. It's not a big surprise, therefore, to see the kinds of topics that are popping up on his forum. For the above reasons, I personally would not recommend Eldredges' ministry.



GroupW -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 2:27:29 PM)

I think you are misunderstanding his words there, though I'll admit it's easy to do. I think his point is that you can live a "christian" life out of a sense of obligation and don't eat, don't touch, don't do, or you can allow Christ to perform a transformative work in your heart and live from purpose and a renewed heart's desire to follow Christ.

Christ came not so we could have life, but that we could have life abundantly. Living from obligation is existance. Living from a renewed heart that earnestly seeks God is both biblical and an example of living abundantly.

Eldredge in my opinion would be the last one to say that we can simply cut loose and let our hearts dictate what we do. Embedded in that quote is the assumption that Christ is transforming my desires. Is that not biblical?

It's interesting how two people can look at the same words of a book and walk away with diametrically opposed meanings. I see the bible fulfilled in that quote, while you see it contradicted. That's why I like discussions like this.



AoibhinnGrainne -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 2:31:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lw9

quote:

AoibhinnGrainne: No book, written by man, has the lock on infallibility or inerrancy. Probably the wisest thing one can do is read like a Berean and toss what one finds to be unScriptural.


I must strongly disagree with that concept. Putting aside Eldredge for a moment, we are told to reject false teachers, false prophets, false signs and wonders, and have nothing to do with them. That alone tells us that there does come a point when we shouldn't be sifting through bad teachings trying to find a nugget but instead are to reject them. We are not told to continue learning from people who teach falsely and contradict sound doctrine.


I must respectfully disagree. Again, no author, except the Holy Spirit, is inerrant. Every single book we read, regardless of the author, has error in it. Am I to reject, wholeslae, every single theologian, apologist, Christian writer, because I believe s/he has written something in error?

Or, perhaps, I would be better served reading nothing at all except Scripture in the Original Languages, since that, alone, is agreed to be without error.

Paul tells us that the Holy Spirit will aid us in trying all spirits. Do we trust the Holy Spirit Who abides in us or not?

I do.

I trust Him in the books I read, the music I sing, the movies I watch, and the Forums
I participate in...

quote:

Now, back to Eldredge. Yes, his teachings are off... way off. We are not called to follow our hearts and our desires, which are not trustworthy or an indicator of truth, but to follow Christ. We are sinful and the 'core of our being' is not good. It's the Holy Spirit within us Who is good.

Another example from Ransomed Hear Ministries:

quote:

"There are two basic approaches to life: One is to live from duty, the other from desire. One of them will kill your soul.

In The Journey of Desire John writes, "We all share the same dilemma - we long for life, and we're not sure where to find it. We wonder, if we ever do find it, can we make it last? ... Our days come to us as a riddle, and the answers aren't handed out with our birth certificates. We must journey to find the life we prize. And the guide we have been given is the desire set deep within - the desire we often overlook or mistake for something else or even choose to ignore."

"The modern church often teaches people to kill desire and calls that sanctification. "But," Eldredge says, "Christianity is not an invitation to become a moral person. It is not a program for getting us in line or for reforming society. ... At its core Christianity begins with an invitation to desire."

The secret of your life was written by God in your heart's desire.


Someone needs to tell Eldredge that Christ IS our guide, our truth, and our life. He has given us all the answers we need in writing.

These are very dangerous messages he's spouting and it gives his followers a license to follow themselves and their desires in the name of 'following God'. It's not a big surprise, therefore, to see the kinds of topics that are popping up on his forum.


Again, we are all born in sin, living in a broken relationship; in the outer reaches of darkness, separated from God.

Christ defeated sin and death. Christ saved us from the ravages of sin. Christ restored the broken relationship between Man and God. Those whom the Father gave to Him, those whose names are written in the book of life, who were chosen from before the foundations, are part and parcel of all of this wondrous restoration of heart, mind, and spirit.

And then some.

Eldredge's books are not meant for the Baby Christian. Nor are they meant to evangelise. In fact, in my studies of Eastern Orthodoxy, I find many parallels between Eldredge's use of the word "heart" and Orthodoxy's understanding of the concept of "nous", also found in the writings of Paul. We are born with minds and hearts divided because of our sin nature. When we come to Christ, we are healed. Our minds and our hearts can communicate with one another...we can now will to do. Christ has restored to us right thinking as well as hearts that are in a life-long quest to be made Christ-like.

This is what Eldredge is talking about.

Our hearts are good because the Holy Spirit dwells there...and we all know that God cannot dwell in a place of evil, a place of uncleanness, a place of impurity.

Our heart's desire is for relationship. So, in our fallen states, we fill this hole in our soul with every pagan thing possible. But the only real answer is to seek out Christ. Only God can truly fill that which we were all born missing: the desire for relationship with God.

Going through the motions, fulfilling the demands of the Law, as required, and then some, is amply modeled for us, in Scripture, by the Pharisees of Jesus' time. If this is the type of Christian we are, we are missing the point.

For the Law of Christ is this:

To love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and spirit. And your neighbour as yourself. This is the whole Law and the Prophets.

From this will flow a desire to feed the hungry, visit the prisoner, care for the widow, the orphan, the stranger in our midst...

Because in the realisation of relationship with the God of the Universe, through Jesus Christ, by means of the indwelling Holy Spirit, every desire in our life has been well and truly fulfilled.

Once and for all.

Of course, everything is a process. We were saved, at a specific moment in time and space, through the death, resurrection, and ascension, of Christ. We are saved when we accept our calling and election in Him. We will be saved at the Judgment Seat when we are united with Christ in eternity. Our sanctification is a process; a flow chart with ups and downs, but always with an upper movement towards Christ-likeness.

Yes, the RH Forums ebb and flow in their subject matter. I have found the same thing here. But I would hesitate to call everyone there "followers of John Eldredge". There have been plenty of discussion (in the Issues Forum) that would belie that characterisation.

Since I have also attended Ransomed Heart events, I can confidently state that you think you know about them, and are describing by out-of-context cut-and-paste, is not well understood. Surely, you wouldn't want for me to characterise your writings in the same way?

Or this Forum:

"Worship Team Frustration"
"Fun Betty's Therapy Center"
"Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Magazine" (in a Christian Forum???)
"RE: BEWARE SCAMMERS AT WORK"

[;)]

Aoi.



GroupW -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 2:36:49 PM)

Would you mind just writing my posts for me? You do a better job of expressing my thoughts.

BT



THEREDCAPE -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 2:37:25 PM)

I see the post referring to me as a chipped shoulder is no longer in this thread.

I was linked to the RH website, and after reading quite a bit of nastiness in there forums, and posting a rebuke, I decided to find out as much as possible about the teachings of the site.

No chip on my shoulder. Only shocked curiosity at what seems to be weird teachings and an absolute bizarre toleration for ungodly language and actions.



GroupW -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 2:46:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: THEREDCAPE

I see the post referring to me as a chipped shoulder is no longer in this thread.

I was linked to the RH website, and after reading quite a bit of nastiness in there forums, and posting a rebuke, I decided to find out as much as possible about the teachings of the site.

No chip on my shoulder. Only shocked curiosity at what seems to be weird teachings and an absolute bizarre toleration for ungodly language and actions.


As far as toleration goes, it's a double edged sword. Letting folks police themselves in a forum and stepping in as administrator only as a last resort gives people some responsibility. This is good. We don't always live up to it. That's bad.

Isn't that what God does with us though? He gives us the chance to fail, which we do, and he loves us anyway. CW for my tastes is a slight bit overcontrolled (no offense intended), but that's just me. Others would obviously be fine with it. So I adjust. They own the forum, while I'm just a guest. It's my job to adjust.

BT



AoibhinnGrainne -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 2:50:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: THEREDCAPE

I see the post referring to me as a chipped shoulder is no longer in this thread.

I was linked to the RH website, and after reading quite a bit of nastiness in there forums, and posting a rebuke, I decided to find out as much as possible about the teachings of the site.

No chip on my shoulder. Only shocked curiosity at what seems to be weird teachings and an absolute bizarre toleration for ungodly language and actions.


Perhaps I am being too literal, but how can one see actions on a web-site?

I know, when I first started reading here at crosswalk.com, I had the same shocked curiosity at how strict and staid you'all are. I was rather taken aback at how easy it was to break a TOS, and how unfriendly the folk here seem to be. The rather rigid and unyielding stances that I see expressed in many many threads were surprising, as well as the seemingly heavy moderation I saw...compared to what I had experienced at Ransomed Heart. Not too many TOS there.

This is a different place, indeed.

I was under the impression that it was against the rules to bad-mouth other Christians, other Christian ministries, and other Christian Forums. So, my question becomes:

How is this thread surviving???

And, subsequent to that:

Are we then questioning the Christianity of John Eldredge, Ransomed Heart Ministries, and everyone and anyone even remotely attached to them and their forum? Even <gulp> including moi?

~ GroupW: Thanky kindly. [sm=blush.gif]

Aoi.



earthless -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 2:56:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AoibhinnGrainne



I must respectfully disagree. Again, no author, except the Holy Spirit, is inerrant. Every single book we read, regardless of the author, has error in it. Am I to reject, wholeslae, every single theologian, apologist, Christian writer, because I believe s/he has written something in error?



Still not entirely correct, please allow me to explain. There are indeed books/authors out there that are Christian and do not have any error. Error meaning there is no fault in the core essentials of Christian doctrine. There are indeed preachers, teachers, etc.. that are sound in their belief positions. No, their words are not Gospel, they are not "revelation knowledge" but they are indeed sound for a self-professing Christian to not have an issue reading them.



lw9 -> RE: RANSOMED HEART MINSTRIES & JOHN ELDREDGE: CULT? (4/24/2008 2:58:03 PM)

Hello AoibhinnGrainne:

quote:

I must respectfully disagree. Again, no author, except the Holy Spirit, is inerrant. Every single book we read, regardless of the author, has error in it. Am I to reject, wholeslae, every single theologian, apologist, Christian writer, because I believe s/he has written something in error?


There's a difference between being making a mistake [which every one of us does because we are not inerrant] and consistently and rebelliously teaching contrary to scripture. That is the distinction I am making. Mistakes do not a false teacher make, especially when they are willing to be corrected through scripture. Teaching consistent and blatant error time after time even after being corrected and shown the truth does put someone into the false teacher category. If false teaching was just a collection of lots of mistakes we were supposed to overlook, God would never have warned us against false teachers and told us to reject them.

quote:

This is what Eldredge is talking about.


No matter what spin is put on it, though, Eldredges' message remains the same: follow your heart and desires because they are now good. That is contradictory to scripture and it's dangerous. We are new creatures in Christ but we still have to deal with sin in our lives because that's the reality. Born again Christians can easily fall into temptation and into sin precisely because they follow their hearts and their desires. Because we're human, our hearts and our desires are not always going to be pure.



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