As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (Full Version)

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gaylel1 -> As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (4/24/2008 10:39:47 PM)

Last night's Dove Awards was a step in the right direction, but when I was hearing Marvin Sapp's song (Which BTW, he did deserved to win---not taking away from Mark Hall and Casting Crowns, and he's a Christian brother who also deseved to win) and was thinking that both genres of music has a long, long way to go as far as accepting diversity goes.

It saddens me when the Christian music industry has been divided because of styles, worship, and the list goes on. I believe many of the gospel artists had not been accepted into the GMA--last night's Dove Awards showed that because many who performed on there had a quiet and chilly reception to these artists, execpt for the few who do have kind hearts and know what this music is all about.

The secular industry accepts musical styles, many of them performed alongside one another, whether it is country, or rock or R&B. But the Christian music industry is the only industry which is divided toward one another.

I think the question is that how can we sing about the hope of heaven when musicians cannot get along?

That is the thought I have on my heart.




MoshForChrist -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (4/24/2008 10:43:26 PM)

I don't know if I'd say it's the artists not getting along but it does seem like the industry has some double-standards for certain bands.
Believe it or not, there was once a time when the Dove awards had a Hard Rock award. I wonder what happened to it.



MusicianDad -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (4/25/2008 9:25:39 AM)

I wonder what happened to Hard Rock in general?



Stratplayer -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (4/25/2008 10:53:29 AM)

Gayle;

I understand where you're coming from, but I have to somewhat disagree with you. As was stated by Mosh, I don't think it has anything to do with not getting along. The way I see it, it's more about marketing and demographics. I would also guess that many people have a "if it aint broke don't fix it" philosophy when it comes to music. They like what they like and that's all there is to it. Some people are a bit more open-minded when it comes to music and venture out of their familiar surrondings, but I don't think that record companies are banking on that. They'll cater to the establisehd markets where they know they can make $$$.



uncabeeil -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (4/25/2008 12:32:48 PM)

quote:

The secular industry accepts musical styles, many of them performed alongside one another, whether it is country, or rock or R&B.
Not really. Having more than one style of music at a show is actually very rare. Even the big festivals are centered around a particular style of music. For example, you're not going to see Snoop Dog at the Newport Jazz festival. Nor will you see the Count Basie Orchestra at Lolapolooza. In fact, Christian music audiences tend to be more accepting of different styles. Look at the lineup for the Creation Festivals. There are hard rock, Adult Contemporary, Hip-hop, and praise bands all at the same event. I can't remember one secular event that showcases such a variety of styles. At least not here on the east coast.



MoshForChrist -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (4/25/2008 12:35:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stratplayer

Gayle;

I understand where you're coming from, but I have to somewhat disagree with you. As was stated by Mosh, I don't think it has anything to do with not getting along. The way I see it, it's more about marketing and demographics. I would also guess that many people have a "if it aint broke don't fix it" philosophy when it comes to music. They like what they like and that's all there is to it. Some people are a bit more open-minded when it comes to music and venture out of their familiar surrondings, but I don't think that record companies are banking on that. They'll cater to the establisehd markets where they know they can make $$$.

Bingo! To be honest, I find it to be our faults too. They want to make money and how do they get it? From us. The fact is it pays off these days to have catchy songs other than songs with genuine talent. Nothing against Casting Crowns.



freakofnature -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (4/25/2008 1:15:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MoshForChrist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stratplayer

Gayle;

I understand where you're coming from, but I have to somewhat disagree with you. As was stated by Mosh, I don't think it has anything to do with not getting along. The way I see it, it's more about marketing and demographics. I would also guess that many people have a "if it aint broke don't fix it" philosophy when it comes to music. They like what they like and that's all there is to it. Some people are a bit more open-minded when it comes to music and venture out of their familiar surrondings, but I don't think that record companies are banking on that. They'll cater to the establisehd markets where they know they can make $$$.

Bingo! To be honest, I find it to be our faults too. They want to make money and how do they get it? From us. The fact is it pays off these days to have catchy songs other than songs with genuine talent. Nothing against Casting Crowns.


It's all about the "hook" folks, who's got the catchiest "hook." Works that way in the secular realm as well. And it is mostly "our fault" there are several people even here in these CCM threads that honestly don't have a nice word to say about Christian music as an artform. I have always said and you can review several other posts I have made, it is (unfortunately) all about the bottom dollar. If we as Christians want a form of entertainment that is directed for us to enjoy, then we have to show it the support it needs. The secular side does a pretty good job of proping up groups like FlyLeaf, Switchfoot (a couple years back) and a short list of other Christian artist, but yet we tend to continue to push them aside... It will not get better if it doesn't get support. Take for instance... Switchfoot is coming to town tonight for a concert, I am going, I have had my tix since the week they went on sale, yet, the concert is far from selling out??? 2 mos. ago, Casting Crowns was here and the show was sold out???? Casting Crowns??? Switchfoot???? I don't know, seems a bit odd, what's worse is that this is the first time Switchfoot or a band in their category for that matter, has visited our area, and probably the last too! NO SUPPORT.



DaveW -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (4/25/2008 2:54:02 PM)

The GMA was started by James Blackwood, JD Sumner, Hovie Lister et al in the 1960s to promote Southern Gospel music. For most of the 70s CCM was not allowed in at all. I remember the HUGE stink when Andre Crouch (black gospel) was allowed to join. CCM had to start their own group, the Fellowship of Contemporary Christian Musicians, (where the name CCM came from) for promotion.

Eventually SG got edged out almost competely from their own promotional organization. SG has its own awards now.

So the history of the GMA and Dove awards has always been pretty narrow.



gtrdave -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (4/25/2008 11:20:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaylel1


The secular industry accepts musical styles, many of them performed alongside one another, whether it is country, or rock or R&B. But the Christian music industry is the only industry which is divided toward one another.




It took the secular music awards body DECADES to recognize any kind of hard rock and/or metal music and when they finally did, they gave the award for best metal band to Jethro Tull [8D]

A good band, no doubt, but hardly metal and just another one of many occasions of weirdness occurring in the secular music award show world so understand that it's not just the Christian music industry that seems a bit skewed in it's awarding behaviors.

For me, I've found that the best way to avoid being upset by the potential wrongs being committed by those running the awards shows is to just avoid the awards shows.
It works for me. [;)]



gaylel1 -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (4/25/2008 11:48:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freakofnature

quote:

ORIGINAL: MoshForChrist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stratplayer

Gayle;

I understand where you're coming from, but I have to somewhat disagree with you. As was stated by Mosh, I don't think it has anything to do with not getting along. The way I see it, it's more about marketing and demographics. I would also guess that many people have a "if it aint broke don't fix it" philosophy when it comes to music. They like what they like and that's all there is to it. Some people are a bit more open-minded when it comes to music and venture out of their familiar surrondings, but I don't think that record companies are banking on that. They'll cater to the establisehd markets where they know they can make $$$.

Bingo! To be honest, I find it to be our faults too. They want to make money and how do they get it? From us. The fact is it pays off these days to have catchy songs other than songs with genuine talent. Nothing against Casting Crowns.


It's all about the "hook" folks, who's got the catchiest "hook." Works that way in the secular realm as well. And it is mostly "our fault" there are several people even here in these CCM threads that honestly don't have a nice word to say about Christian music as an artform. I have always said and you can review several other posts I have made, it is (unfortunately) all about the bottom dollar. If we as Christians want a form of entertainment that is directed for us to enjoy, then we have to show it the support it needs. The secular side does a pretty good job of proping up groups like FlyLeaf, Switchfoot (a couple years back) and a short list of other Christian artist, but yet we tend to continue to push them aside... It will not get better if it doesn't get support. Take for instance... Switchfoot is coming to town tonight for a concert, I am going, I have had my tix since the week they went on sale, yet, the concert is far from selling out??? 2 mos. ago, Casting Crowns was here and the show was sold out???? Casting Crowns??? Switchfoot???? I don't know, seems a bit odd, what's worse is that this is the first time Switchfoot or a band in their category for that matter, has visited our area, and probably the last too! NO SUPPORT.



And whose fault it is? the Christian community, because they tend to condemn those who get this support from secular enities, yet when they even play, whether it is gospel or CCM, they are branded as "committing a sin."

I remember the Michael W. Smith/Third Day controversy when they went on tour and was sponsored by Chevolet. A lot of people got on them because those Christians who were critical toward them thought that they should have enlisted the services of a sedular company to sponsor them and vice versa.

Or take some gospel artists who are supported by the secular world but not supported by Christians because the Christian think that they "are worldy and turning their backs on God."




TQ_Fan_4_Life -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (4/26/2008 1:03:42 AM)

a lot of people think they are turning their backs on God becuase they will stop putting out Christian music and start putting out pure secular music. I dont have a problem with them but dont be cussing in a song then say give your heart to Jesus. I am not condemning any one artist. even though I will get jumped in the thread is my feleings



RHardin15 -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (4/26/2008 2:49:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gaylel1

And whose fault it is? the Christian community, because they tend to condemn those who get this support from secular enities, yet when they even play, whether it is gospel or CCM, they are branded as "committing a sin."

I remember the Michael W. Smith/Third Day controversy when they went on tour and was sponsored by Chevolet. A lot of people got on them because those Christians who were critical toward them thought that they should have enlisted the services of a sedular company to sponsor them and vice versa.

Or take some gospel artists who are supported by the secular world but not supported by Christians because the Christian think that they "are worldy and turning their backs on God."



That's rediculous that people would do that. Granted I haven't really paid attention to the Christian music scene until recently, but that amazes me!



dust_bin_dan -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (5/15/2008 6:11:55 PM)

I'm currently researching for a dissertation on the Christian record industry. The comments so far have been really interesting. My focus is on the positive and negative of both UK and the USA's market, and a comparison between the two. I would love to hear people opinions and would appreciate as many people as possible to list their top ten favorite Christian artists. Anyones thoughts would be greatly appreciated. The dissertation is not focused on worship music, and i don't want it to get into Christian moral issues but rather why it does or doesn't have a leg to stand on when compared to the secular market.

Is the industry producing good music?
Is the industry thriving?
Is there a wide genre of music represented in the industry?

etc...
Let me know what you think.

Dan



RHardin15 -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (5/16/2008 10:34:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dust_bin_dan

I'm currently researching for a dissertation on the Christian record industry. The comments so far have been really interesting. My focus is on the positive and negative of both UK and the USA's market, and a comparison between the two. I would love to hear people opinions and would appreciate as many people as possible to list their top ten favorite Christian artists. Anyones thoughts would be greatly appreciated. The dissertation is not focused on worship music, and i don't want it to get into Christian moral issues but rather why it does or doesn't have a leg to stand on when compared to the secular market.

Is the industry producing good music?
Is the industry thriving?
Is there a wide genre of music represented in the industry?

etc...
Let me know what you think.

Dan


I'll participate.
Top 10 Favorite Christian Artists
1. Decemberadio
2. Red
3. Skillet
4. Wavorly
5. Lecrae
6. Disciple
7. Seventh Day Slumber
8. L.A. Symphony
9. Needtobreathe
10. Decyfer Down


Is the industry producing good music?
- I believe it is doing better than it has in the past. There are a whole lot more artists to choose from thanany ar ever.

Is the industry thriving?
- I think it is held back because of misrepresentation of the industry by the "Family Friendly" format dominating the radio waves. There are many people that don't even know about artists because they don't hear them on the radio.

Is there a wide genre of music represented in the industry?
- There are definately a wide variety of Christian artists out there.



humbleinspirit -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (5/16/2008 10:51:32 AM)

quote:

I remember the Michael W. Smith/Third Day controversy when they went on tour and was sponsored by Chevolet. A lot of people got on them because those Christians who were critical toward them thought that they should have enlisted the services of a sedular company to sponsor them and vice versa.


Now I thought it was because a beer company was sponsoring the concert instead.



GBrady -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (5/16/2008 10:56:25 AM)

quote:

Is the industry producing good music?
Is the industry thriving?
Is there a wide genre of music represented in the industry?


Dan:
1) Yes, the industry often produces GREAT music. Daniel Amos, The Choir, and Earthsuit come to mind as examples of artistically creative, interesting music from a faith-based perspective.
2) I would say it is doing well but probably not as high as its 80s peak due to the same pressures the mainstream music industry is facing: file sharing/copying of CDs and the high-price of gas/groceries which are probably reducing the "disposable income" available to purchase music with.
3) Music of virtually any style represented in the mainstream is present in CCM. However, UNlike mainstream radio, most Christian radio is NON-commercial and as such they are forced to cater not necessarily to their biggest LISTENERS but to whom they expect to be their biggest FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTORS (donors). These tend to be older and more musically conservative.

For this reason, it is very difficult to hear more "extreme" styles of music (Christian hardcore/punk/rap/techno) on broadcast radio. Also, the lack of a true Christian music video channel with wide distribution minimizes the exposure this music could receive. It relies mostly on Internet radio, Satellite radio and word of mouth to keep itself going.

Rap is one of the biggest shortcomings of Christian radio. Compare the percentage of the average hour of music on a mainstream Top 40 station devoted to hip-hop music to a Christian station, even a rock one if you can find it, and you can see that there is a LONG way to go.



RHardin15 -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (5/16/2008 11:13:00 AM)

The local Christian station here plays probably 3 or 4 rap songs in an hour. But again, I have found that it is not the norm.



MoshForChrist -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (5/16/2008 12:52:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dust_bin_dan

Is the industry producing good music?

Yes, unfortunately many (including myself) have difficulty finding them due to many stations being being biased to particular bands/genres. But this occurs in the secular industry also.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dust_bin_dan
Is the industry thriving?


I believe the christian music industry has thrived like never before. Bands that have been mentioned like Flyleaf, Switchfoot, Underoath, and P.O.D. are branching out to people across the country leading others to check out this industry. Unfortunately the christian industry seems to thrive on bands that aren't unique.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dust_bin_dan
Is there a wide genre of music represented in the industry?


It's wide, but nothing compared to the secular industry. This happens due to a closed minded industry and a section of christians considering other musical styles 'evil'.



GBrady -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (5/16/2008 1:32:53 PM)

Gayle kicked it off:

{quote]It saddens me when the Christian music industry has been divided because of styles, worship, and the list goes on. I believe many of the gospel artists had not been accepted into the GMA--last night's Dove Awards showed that because many who performed on there had a quiet and chilly reception to these artists, execpt for the few who do have kind hearts and know what this music is all about.

Not able to see the show so I couldn't see the "chilly reception" but I do agree that we have a long way to go toward supporting each others Christian musical expression. I think it's quite possible for me to have my own "preferred style" and still show support for others who may be giving their musical gift back to God in a style that's not my own cup of tea. This works BOTH ways by the way...as someone above me pointed out, Southern gospel got all this started. In a way, us contemporary folks are "interlopers" and we should remember they were first.

quote:

The secular industry accepts musical styles, many of them performed alongside one another, whether it is country, or rock or R&B. But the Christian music industry is the only industry which is divided toward one another.


While I think we do need to do a better job with inclusion, since the Dove Awards are in theory supposed to represent "all" Christian music, I understand the need for varied genre specific awards. For one thing, it would be too limiting to reduce all recognition of Gospel music to one or two awards, so I see the need for the Stellar Awards. Likewise for those honoring Southern Gospel and Christian Country music. I'm surprised there's not awards for Holy Hop-Hop but I'm probably just not aware of it.

But too often the Doves are a little on the lily white side.

quote:

I think the question is that how can we sing about the hope of heaven when musicians cannot get along?
I would hope we could see past our own personal musical preferences enough to see that we're all attempting to praise the same Jesus whether we're rockin', "testifyin' ", rapping or doing it in 4 part harmony, Quartet-style.

And I still believe that for all the talk about "reaching the world", Christian radio doesn't really sound all that much like the "Christian" version of the same radio formats. You can listen to most "Christian CHR" stations and never hear anything with an R&B or hip-hop sound and that isn't even close to the case with mainstream Top 40.



uncabeeil -> RE: As Far As Diversity Goes, CCM and Gospel Has a Long, Long Way To Go.. (5/16/2008 1:58:09 PM)

quote:

It's wide, but nothing compared to the secular industry. This happens due to a closed minded industry and a section of christians considering other musical styles 'evil'.
I disagree with this statement. From what I've seen, the variety of Christian music is every bit as varied as non-Christian. There's Christian rap, hard core, metal, adult contemporary, R&B, bubble gum pop, even big band and jazz. The main problem is distribution. There are an amazing number of independent artists whose music is simply outstanding, but they have trouble getting heard because of the afore-mentioned "Family Friendly" format that pervades Christian radio. New artists have to rely on word of mouth or sites like You Tube.



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