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I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/25/2008 8:54:44 AM
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abraxas
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Not trying to be rude here, but this is a realization of mine.
I feel like I'm in a huge arena swarming with various ideas about life. Accompanying each idea is a team of proponents trying to persuade everyone else to their idea. Some attempts at persusion are through example, some use fear tactics, some focus on how wrong the other ideas are, some exhort me to just "choose" theirs because "it's the True one".
So here is reality as I perceive it. And maybe I'm just too old now, or maybe it's a phase, but the truth is I just don't see God behind the game. I think this life is a great cave, and what we see is the shadow of something else. We give details to that shadow, and we get so caught up in it that we don't realize that it's not the thing, it's the shadow of the thing. So maybe that shadow is cast by God, maybe it's cast by something else. At this point for me that's not an important question. There are important questions, but for me, "Is God real?" and "Which God-claim is the correct one?" are not the important ones.
As long as I view my "arena" in this way, there's no way I can answer those questions. So I'll keep them in the peripherals, and continue to pursue other questions. If you have any other questions you'd like to nominate as important, I'd like to consider them.
thanks
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/25/2008 9:05:59 AM
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earthless
Posts: 4044
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From: where thawing pigeons reside...
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Good luck to you. Let me know if you ever have any questions.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/25/2008 9:35:33 AM
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timf
Posts: 793
Joined: 10/20/2006
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I don't really care if God exists or not
There used to be a quiz show called "You bet your life". Many people feel that there is no god and this life is all that they will experience. Others feel that the God of the Bible is true. Just as young people feel that the difficulties of aging are distant and unreal, many people feel that after death possibilities are also intangible.
If you feel no interest in finding truth, God may not be calling you. If you feel no interest in your possible fate after death, you may indeed find out this life offers you all that you will enjoy.
Luke 16:24-25
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/25/2008 10:42:01 AM
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bob97
Posts: 1623
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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quote:
So maybe that shadow is cast by God, maybe it's cast by something else.
Yes you are correct...the shadow you see is cast by something else other than God and if you stay on you present course you will find it...good luck, I think you will need it.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/25/2008 11:20:45 AM
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mvic
Posts: 164
Joined: 1/17/2008
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Dear abraxas,
You seem confused, and I don't blame you. When I read the many posts in this Forum (and other Forums) I hear a lot of noise from the many people trying to "sell" and "promote" their kind of Christianity. Many quote the Bible ad infinitum and quote other learned books, scholars and so on.
I don't blame them either - they believe and want others to believe also. They are doing what Christ asked them to do - be a witness on His behalf.
As for you - you seem content in the belief that you don't care if God exists or not. That's your prerogative. Your lack of belief does not make Him less real. He exists alright. I have proved it to myself; as no doubt all the other believers have proved it for themselves. But none of us can convince you that He exists if you don't care or don't want to believe.
So here's a plea from me: consider perhaps the remote possibility that you may be wrong and He does exist. What then?
_____________________________
http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/25/2008 2:21:37 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 383
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abraxas
Not trying to be rude here, but this is a realization of mine.
I feel like I'm in a huge arena swarming with various ideas about life. Accompanying each idea is a team of proponents trying to persuade everyone else to their idea. Some attempts at persusion are through example, some use fear tactics, some focus on how wrong the other ideas are, some exhort me to just "choose" theirs because "it's the True one".
So here is reality as I perceive it. And maybe I'm just too old now, or maybe it's a phase, but the truth is I just don't see God behind the game. I think this life is a great cave, and what we see is the shadow of something else. We give details to that shadow, and we get so caught up in it that we don't realize that it's not the thing, it's the shadow of the thing. So maybe that shadow is cast by God, maybe it's cast by something else. At this point for me that's not an important question. There are important questions, but for me, "Is God real?" and "Which God-claim is the correct one?" are not the important ones.
As long as I view my "arena" in this way, there's no way I can answer those questions. So I'll keep them in the peripherals, and continue to pursue other questions. If you have any other questions you'd like to nominate as important, I'd like to consider them.
thanks
"I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." John 17:23
We, as Christians, have failed you abraxas, and I apologize.
You are right. There is no unity whatsoever amongst professing Christians. The only excuse I can offer is that not all those who profess, actually possess. That, and the fact that we are all in different places in our walk.
How will the world ever believe when we who are its hope, are not united?
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/25/2008 2:25:57 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1623
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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quote:
You are right. There is no unity whatsoever amongst professing Christians.
I would disagree URF...there is unity in the fact we all believe in the One God and God in the Son, Jesus Christ who came to earth to die for our sins. I think we have at least this much in common.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/25/2008 2:46:44 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 383
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
You are right. There is no unity whatsoever amongst professing Christians.
I would disagree URF...there is unity in the fact we all believe in the One God and God in the Son, Jesus Christ who came to earth to die for our sins. I think we have at least this much in common.
Bob
I wish that it were true Bob, but you know as well as I that there will be those who do not believe even that. Peace.
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/25/2008 3:03:41 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1623
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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quote:
Christians
By profession Christians I make an assumption that one belongs to Christ but that leaves a lot of room for debate doesn't it. Guess I'll just have to narrow down my definition next time.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/25/2008 6:24:34 PM
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faithfulservant_
Posts: 218
Joined: 3/6/2008
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quote:
original: Bob
By profession Christians I make an assumption that one belongs to Christ but that leaves a lot of room for debate doesn't it. Guess I'll just have to narrow down my definition next time.
Hey Bob,
You had the right definition. A Christian is someone who "belongs to Christ." There is no need to narrow it down. 
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/25/2008 9:49:04 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1973
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quote:
If you have any other questions you'd like to nominate as important, I'd like to consider them.
abraxas:
The question you should really be asking yourself is "Since I don't really care if God exists, why I am wasting my time on a Christian forum?"
Shouldn't you be seeking out fellow-atheists and vigorously promoting your philosophy like Marx and Lenin? After all, they had the answers to all of life's questions (or so they thought).
Just one last thought -- if God really exists, you are in one heap of trouble.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/25/2008 11:24:01 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1623
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From: Kansas
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Thanks faithful... I was beginning to think I had lost it.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/26/2008 5:46:14 AM
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Real_Solitude
Posts: 266
Joined: 5/9/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
abraxas:
The question you should really be asking yourself is "Since I don't really care if God exists, why I am wasting my time on a Christian forum?"
Shouldn't you be seeking out fellow-atheists and vigorously promoting your philosophy like Marx and Lenin? After all, they had the answers to all of life's questions (or so they thought).
Just one last thought -- if God really exists, you are in one heap of trouble.
Wow... simply wow. I applaud that you were able to slip two association fallacies, a bare assertion fallacy, an appeal to ridicule, a hasty generalization, a spotlight fallacy, an appeal to consequence, an appeal to fear, and judgmental language all in the span of four sentences. I'm impressed. You're averaging 2.25 fallacies per sentence; that's no easy task.
From what I could see, abraxas was simply stating his personal philosophy. (Though I assume he's borrowed the idea from Plato). There was no maliciousness in his message, just a statement of where he's at in life. Yet instead of engaging in discussion, you attempt to mock his beliefs. I like how you show that characteristic Christian kindness and love in your response to him. Keep up the good work.
Heck, at this rate Atheists won't even have to spread their ideas. Christians seem to be doing a good enough job tarnishing Christ's name as it is. Atheists just have to sit back and watch their numbers swell with those disillusioned by Christians.
What was that quote again, I know I've seen it on these boards?
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
-- Mahatma Gandhi
_____________________________
"Instead of feeling alone in a group its better to have real solitude all by yourself."
~Faye Valentine
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/26/2008 8:17:40 AM
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abraxas
Posts: 96
Joined: 4/8/2008
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First off I'd like say I'm not out to undermine anyone's beliefs. I'm putting into words my thinking as of late, and I recognize that any one here could possibly be correct. More than that though I don't doubt anyone's sincerity, and I respect your sincerity.
I'll try to respond to at least some of the comments here.
earthless--thanks.
timf, you may be right, perhaps He's simply not interested. Or perhaps He's fine where I am in my life. Or perhaps He doesn't exist. Beating myself up over which of those is correct might not be the wisest course of action for me.
bob97, it's religions that I see as a shadow. I know you didn't mean to imply that the "shadow" -i.e. Christianity - is cast by something other than God. However I'm not sure what you meant exactly.
mvic, I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, nor that of the others you mentioned. Nor that of some very devoted Mormon friends I have, nor of faithful Muslims, Daoists, etc. Nor for that matter of a staunch atheist. These are the ideas floating around I mentioned in the OP, and there's probably a spectrum of conviction to be found in each one. And yes, I do consider the possibility that I'm wrong. Doesn't everybody? 'What then?' really depends on how exactly, of the many possibilities, that I am wrong, and it's that kind of thing that has led to my loss of interest. It seems to have a built-in scare tactic and what bearing should fear have on my beliefs?
URforgiven, I don't blame Christians. It seems inevitable when a doctrine includes the premise that "you can know the truth", that there will very quickly be division. It's a human thing.
Ezra, I'm not atheist, I'm agnostic. Do atheists have to be Marxists? Too bad for them. And why you trying to scare me? In the other thread you told me fear shouldn't be a motivation for belief. You also explained why you "chose" your beliefs with very circular reasoning. Twice. But I didn't expect better, because the notion that beliefs are chosen is problematic in exactly that way.
Oh and I don't think this is a waste of time. But if I turn into a post-monger, THEN you can give me a hard time.
Real_Solitude, you're right I borrowed the shadow idea from Plato. Though how thoroughly I don't know--I should go and re-familiarize myself with his Cave story!
I do have a strong appreciation for goodness, and love, and compassion, things like that, and I figure that if there is a God casting shadows, those must be shadows of God. If they're not shadows of God, well, they're still the sorts of things I prefer to pursue.
Good night everyone, be sure to get offline and out into the real world soon! 
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/26/2008 12:44:17 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1973
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Real Solitude:
Thanks for letting me know that I set a record in making fallacious statements. I trust it will be entered in the Guiness Book shortly.
quote:
Yet instead of engaging in discussion, you attempt to mock his beliefs.
One cannot "engage in discussion" with someone who says he doesn't really care if God exists. Why would he wish to discuss something that in his mind is non-existent? That's certainly a waste of time.
And it is definitely not an attempt to "mock his beliefs" when he has no beliefs. All I have said is that he should involve himself with those who deny the existence of God, since Christians are in the opposite camp.
quote:
I like how you show that characteristic Christian kindness and love in your response to him. Keep up the good work.
The kindest thing one can do for someone who denies reality is to inform them about the consequences if that reality does in fact exist.
Christ -- who is the epitome and the fullest expression of God's love -- said to His Galilaeans: "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish". That is indeed a warning of love, even though it is not warm and fuzzy.
Abraxas, and all God-deniers, need to clearly understand that they really have no reason or excuse for denying the existence of God. Creation reveals the power and Deity of God (Romans 1:20), and Christ Himself reveals the character of God in His life, death and resurrection (Hebrews 1:1,2). To deny what God has revealed is to bring judgment upon ourselves.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/26/2008 10:19:17 PM
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abraxas
Posts: 96
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Ezra, I don't deny reality. I actually spend big chunks of time in it, quite often. But seriously, please stop the pointless insinuations. "You deny reality." "No, my friend, it is you who denies reality." "Oh, no, I clearly accept reality, and YOU are the reality denier!" etc. 
I don’t deny the existence of God so I don’t know why I would involve myself with those that do. And I wasn’t asking to discuss God. (So, I probably put this in the wrong forum--mods feel free to move it.)
At the end of the OP you’ll find a request for questions you think a person should ask. Life questions, but more the this-life type. Questions besides, Is there a God? or What happens after I die? or What if I’m wrong?
By the way I misread your Marx comment. Sorry about that. Marxism is just another of the ideas swarming about the arena. Emotionally compelling, but impractical IMO.
< Message edited by abraxas -- 4/26/2008 10:30:32 PM >
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/26/2008 11:10:48 PM
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faithfulservant_
Posts: 218
Joined: 3/6/2008
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quote:
original: abraxas
Ezra, I don't deny reality. I actually spend big chunks of time in it, quite often. But seriously, please stop the pointless insinuations. "You deny reality." "No, my friend, it is you who denies reality." "Oh, no, I clearly accept reality, and YOU are the reality denier!" etc. I don’t deny the existence of God so I don’t know why I would involve myself with those that do. And I wasn’t asking to discuss God. (So, I probably put this in the wrong forum--mods feel free to move it.)
Hey abraxas,
Don't worry about it. If it makes you feel any better, I had my fair share of receiving false accusations on these threads. No worries, my friend. Just as long as your with peace with God and trust Him as your only Lord and Savior; thats all it matters.......
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/27/2008 2:33:15 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2301
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abraxas
Not trying to be rude here, but this is a realization of mine.
I feel like I'm in a huge arena swarming with various ideas about life. Accompanying each idea is a team of proponents trying to persuade everyone else to their idea. Some attempts at persusion are through example, some use fear tactics, some focus on how wrong the other ideas are, some exhort me to just "choose" theirs because "it's the True one".
So here is reality as I perceive it. And maybe I'm just too old now, or maybe it's a phase, but the truth is I just don't see God behind the game. I think this life is a great cave, and what we see is the shadow of something else. We give details to that shadow, and we get so caught up in it that we don't realize that it's not the thing, it's the shadow of the thing. So maybe that shadow is cast by God, maybe it's cast by something else. At this point for me that's not an important question. There are important questions, but for me, "Is God real?" and "Which God-claim is the correct one?" are not the important ones.
As long as I view my "arena" in this way, there's no way I can answer those questions. So I'll keep them in the peripherals, and continue to pursue other questions. If you have any other questions you'd like to nominate as important, I'd like to consider them.
thanks
quote:
I don't really care if God exists or not
I can see this happening and a place like this might just add to a person's confusion. Someday if you change your mind about caring, go off to a quiet place and ask God to lead you out of the confusion. It really has to be between you and Him anyway.
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/27/2008 2:42:00 AM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1191
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if "God" is an idea, then we can pretty much adopt any form of God idea we want and it doesn't matter. if God is a PERSON, then we had better find out what He thinks because if some one is in charge, and we don't know anything about Him....we could be in trouble.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/27/2008 2:12:12 PM
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abraxas
Posts: 96
Joined: 4/8/2008
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Sure, we could be. Or we could be in trouble for having the wrong idea about him. Or both of those could be incorrect. Definitely lots of ideas swirling about. I'm at peace with not letting all that get to me, especially not the 'fear factor'. I think there's a statement of faith in there.
So what now, for a person like me?
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/27/2008 7:47:35 PM
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faithfulservant_
Posts: 218
Joined: 3/6/2008
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quote:
original: abraxas
So what now, for a person like me?
Since you are a believer: go to a quiet place, pray to God (I like to pray on my knees), and read the bible (maybe one chapter). No one here in these threads can predict what will happen to you today, tomorrow, or after you die. No man has that kind of authority, never has and never will. But is impossible to please God without faith.
< Message edited by faithfulservant1 -- 4/27/2008 7:53:45 PM >
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/27/2008 7:56:13 PM
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prophet
Posts: 120
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faithfulservant1
quote:
original: abraxas
So what now, for a person like me?
Since you are a believer: go to a quiet place, pray to God (I like to pray on my knees), and read the bible (maybe one chapter). No one here in these threads can predict what will happen to you today, tomorrow, or after you die. No man has that kind of authority, never has and never will. But is impossible to please God without faith.
Dont think hes a beleiever.
Otherwise, he would not say that " I don't really care if God exists or not"
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/27/2008 8:03:30 PM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 438
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: abraxas
Sure, we could be. Or we could be in trouble for having the wrong idea about him. Or both of those could be incorrect. Definitely lots of ideas swirling about. I'm at peace with not letting all that get to me, especially not the 'fear factor'. I think there's a statement of faith in there.
So what now, for a person like me?
Then, what really is the purpose of your post if you're so at peace with your belief or non belief? Do you have a question?
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/27/2008 8:28:53 PM
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faithfulservant_
Posts: 218
Joined: 3/6/2008
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quote:
original: prophet
Dont think he's a believer.
Read post #16. He does believe in God. Although, I don't think he has put his faith in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.
quote:
original: abraxas
I don’t deny the existence of God
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RE: I don't really care if God exists or not - 4/28/2008 1:51:32 AM
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abraxas
Posts: 96
Joined: 4/8/2008
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Faithful I apologize for the confusion. It is true that I don't deny the existence of God, as Ezra stated. I don't know if there is or if there isn't. And I'm just tired of beating myself up over it.
Let's all remember that no one point in a person's life is an accurate depiction of their entire life journey. And life doesn't always progress in a linear fashion. I know you all want me to believe what you believe, and that's cool. I started this thread to see if anyone had some good suggestions for someone who has made a decision to put down the big questions (they've really made me agnostic), but who is still interested in "The Good Life" AND who isn't out to burn any bridges because who knows what tomorrow will bring. Prairiehiker I hope that answered your question.
On this thread three posters have hinted at "big trouble" if I don't find God, and I have to say the fear factor is the biggest turn-off of all. So apart from that tack, I'm open to ideas. And don't worry, I'm not at a loss on my own, but outside input is a good thing.
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