RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (Full Version)

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stampinlady -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (4/28/2008 4:26:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

I find that modern day worship music could often be as easily sung to one's girlfriend as to one's Savior.



Yes and Yes. I've felt the same over the years. Creepy.



bride48 -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (4/28/2008 4:37:18 PM)

I think part of it is lack of good, doctrinal teaching, and part is women trying to deal with the pain of singleness.



Dred -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (4/28/2008 4:47:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

I find that modern day worship music could often be as easily sung to one's girlfriend as to one's Savior.


This phenomenon was once satirized on South Park when Cartman decided to make it big in the contemporary Christian music genre. Anybody else see that?

I think it may be a symptom of the current hyper-sexualizing of celebrities and entertainment in our culture. For the record, I don't like it. Jesus is not a pop icon.



THEREDCAPE -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (4/29/2008 2:31:54 PM)

Good points, Dred. The way our Lord is portrayed in our modern culture is vile! Christians should not add fuel to the fire of sacriligous jargon.



SD456 -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (4/30/2008 10:15:20 PM)

I've never come across that kind of teaching anywhere in the church. Not even in the prophetic denominations I'm part of. I think anyone who thinks that way is definately off.

I have seen it used as Jesus lover of my soul in worship and literature but that was never in an erotic or eros context which is what the OP specifically mentioned. In fact, I remember an old worship we use to sing called, Jesus Lover of My Soul. I really liked that song.



CropDuster -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (4/30/2008 10:17:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: THEREDCAPE

This popped up in another thread, and it seems to be growing as a movement of some sort:
Seeing or portraying Jesus in a romantic or erotic way.

I am highly uncomfortable with this, and am surprised "Jesus the lover" type teachings are taking hold. The scripture pointed out is Song of Songs.

Has anyone else dealt with this either in a church, on television teachings, or online?

How do people slide down the slope to begin to percieve Christ in this manner?


Sounds like another tactic to sabotage and discredit Christianity. Our enemies today are legion.



SD456 -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (4/30/2008 10:24:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ps103

I definitely agree that it is wrong to romanticize or sexualize Jesus, but I think it is just a part of what the "modern" version of Christianity does.

There are also detached, intellectuals who perceive Jesus to be more of a PhD than God.

There are extraverted "everyone's best friend" that perceive Jesus as their best buddy rather than God.

There are those who are passionate about social justice who perceive Jesus to be The Great Liberator.

And so on.

It is all a part of creating God in our image rather than trying, in our feeble human minds, to understand Him as He truly is.

We want a Comfortable Jesus we can relate to, who is a lot like us.


I think God is many things to us humans because He's God and has many facets to Himself.

I think He IS the Great Liberator who has come to set prisoners free and he wants us to speak up for those without a voice (social justice).

He is closest friend - as He said about Moses and Abraham, friends of God.

He is loving Papa whose arms we can run into whenever we want.

He is a bridegroom coming back for the Bride (his church) that He loves deeply.

He is many things.



stellaluna -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (4/30/2008 10:39:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bride48
When I was single, leaders in my church's womens ministry encouraged me to think of Jesus as my Husband, using Song of Solomon as their Scriptural basis. My desire for an earthly husband was considered idolatry. I felt very condemned for wanting a husband other than Jesus.

That kind of creeps me out.

Of course, there are two women in another thread saying Jesus is the love of their lives and that kind of creeps me out, too.

The whole idea just creeps me out, is all.



SD456 -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (4/30/2008 10:42:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

I find that modern day worship music could often be as easily sung to one's girlfriend as to one's Savior.



Yes and Yes. I've felt the same over the years. Creepy.


I love the worship songs out there today. Divine Romance by Phil Wickam is one of my favorite. But I can understand how christians of a more rationalist personality and/or mindset would have a hard time connecting with those type of songs while christians with a more emotional/creative personality have an easy time connecting with them. I think a lot of our preferences are based on our personality types.

One can understand that there are imperfect similarities between how God pursues us with His love, some in literature have called it the Holy spirit wooing us, and that of romance without having to add eros love into it.

God definately is not sexual in any way to us, that's ridiculous - but He is unrelenting in His pursuit of our hearts.



SD456 -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (4/30/2008 10:47:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

Of course, there are two women in another thread saying Jesus is the love of their lives and that kind of creeps me out, too.

The whole idea just creeps me out, is all.


That's funny that that would creep you out. Jesus is the love of my life also. I've not ever known anyone to love me so unconditionally as Him and since He IS love than I think it's ok for people to feel that He is THE love of their life. There is nothing sexual in that statement.



1love1God1way -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (4/30/2008 10:53:31 PM)

The song "How He Loves" by John Mark McMillan. . . with lines like "So heaven meets earth like a sloppy wet kiss."



SD456 -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (4/30/2008 11:09:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

The song "How He Loves" by John Mark McMillan. . . with lines like "So heaven meets earth like a sloppy wet kiss."


[:D][:D] I've never heard that song before.


Edit: I don't think I could sing that without laughing. I so think God would get a kick out of that song.



bluestone -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 8:18:48 AM)

There was a song a few years ago about Jesus being "closer than a lover". Our worship leader kept putting it on the music schedule, even after numerous complaints. Finally, the Pastor decided it should stop being sung, and it made everyone uncomfortable.

creepy!



stellaluna -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 9:27:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Of course, there are two women in another thread saying Jesus is the love of their lives and that kind of creeps me out, too.

The whole idea just creeps me out, is all.

That's funny that that would creep you out. Jesus is the love of my life also. I've not ever known anyone to love me so unconditionally as Him and since He IS love than I think it's ok for people to feel that He is THE love of their life. There is nothing sexual in that statement.

I still think to use a phrase that vernacularly describes a romantic relationship is creepy when Jesus is a part of it. It's not the idea that Jesus loves you the most and you love Jesus the most...it's how it's described that is creepy.



Kath -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 9:35:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

quote:

ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Of course, there are two women in another thread saying Jesus is the love of their lives and that kind of creeps me out, too.

The whole idea just creeps me out, is all.

That's funny that that would creep you out. Jesus is the love of my life also. I've not ever known anyone to love me so unconditionally as Him and since He IS love than I think it's ok for people to feel that He is THE love of their life. There is nothing sexual in that statement.

I still think to use a phrase that vernacularly describes a romantic relationship is creepy when Jesus is a part of it. It's not the idea that Jesus loves you the most and you love Jesus the most...it's how it's described that is creepy.


I agree with that.



1love1God1way -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 9:49:01 AM)

Although it is less "romantic", I have troubles with The More I Seek You, if you guys know that song. The chorus is:

"I want to sit at your feet
drink from the cup in your hand
lay back against you and breath
feel your heartbeat
This love is so deep
It's more than I can stand
I melt in your peace,
It's overwhelming"

I'm not saying this is wrong or anything, but as a male raised in a small country town who worked in a paper mill. . . this just is too. . . mushy for me. Girly, I guess.

To each their own I guess.



GroupW -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 10:19:31 AM)

As a guy, that one doesn't bother me too much since it brings to mind a picture of John at the last supper.

Not that you'll see me in church bellowing that one with gusto...



Memaw. -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 11:04:31 AM)

Years ago I had a friend who was into this type of thinking.
There were times she would tell me about "Jesus climbing into bed with her".
It had become where she "sexualized" Jesus.

I don't know how someone gets caught up in this, or how to even minister to them on how to get out.



bluestone -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 11:07:48 AM)

I think Stellaluna hit it headon....the descriptions are what does it.
If your description of your relationship with Jesus is full of sexual inuendo, your use language that is normally used to describe erotic relationships, or you produce artwork depicting Jesus in a sexually descriptive relationship with His "bride", then the line has been crossed into creepy grosshood, and it has been crossed (IMO) INTENTIONALLY.

Some may claim innocence, but I think YOU KNOW YOU ARE MAKING A HOLY, SPIRITUAL RELATIONSHIP EROTIC.

To me, that spells a mind that needs some help.



Kath -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 11:08:49 AM)

Just the thought of it makes me physically ill. Seriously. Something felt queasy in my stomach when I read that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Memaw.

Years ago I had a friend who was into this type of thinking.
There were times she would tell me about "Jesus climbing into bed with her".
It had become where she "sexualized" Jesus.

I don't know how someone gets caught up in this, or how to even minister to them on how to get out.



bluestone -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 11:10:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Memaw.

Years ago I had a friend who was into this type of thinking.
There were times she would tell me about "Jesus climbing into bed with her".
It had become where she "sexualized" Jesus.

I don't know how someone gets caught up in this, or how to even minister to them on how to get out.


They need a good whack on the head, and someone having the gumption to say "You are DEAD wrong!"



Memaw. -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 11:27:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kath

Just the thought of it makes me physically ill. Seriously. Something felt queasy in my stomach when I read that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Memaw.

Years ago I had a friend who was into this type of thinking.
There were times she would tell me about "Jesus climbing into bed with her".
It had become where she "sexualized" Jesus.

I don't know how someone gets caught up in this, or how to even minister to them on how to get out.



Kath,
It did me too.
This was a woman who had come out of a satanic cult, considered herself a witch in that cult and professed to now be a Christian.
There were many things that I notice now as I look back on our friendship that just didn't "jibe", but this was the end of our friendship.
I didn't know what to say to her, I was utterly shocked at some of the things she would tell me.

I did let her know she was wrong in her thinking, that somehow she had gotten wayyy off track, but since she lived many miles from me, I couldn't "whack her on the head".[8D]
Our friendship ended very soon after and I do hope she has since found the real Jesus.



GroupW -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 11:27:23 AM)

I find that whacking isn't particularly productive with these folk. Many feel somewhat alienated by the traditional church and are looking for something that feels a bit more real to them. Wrapping them up within an effective, working community and developing personal discipleship is the key for me.

That's something that in the past many years has faded a bit as the suburbs & mega churches have grown, as people have become more mobile, and as true community within the church itself has become less visible.

I find that we're a bit too fast to pull the "heretic" trigger and a bit too slow to come along side someone in a discipling fashion and teach truth gently within the community.

There are clearly exceptions to this statement, and many of you all go to churches that exemplify a much better standard. That's a wonderful thing.

End of sermon.



AoibhinnGrainne -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 11:54:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

quote:

ORIGINAL: Memaw.

Years ago I had a friend who was into this type of thinking.
There were times she would tell me about "Jesus climbing into bed with her".
It had become where she "sexualized" Jesus.

I don't know how someone gets caught up in this, or how to even minister to them on how to get out.


They need a good whack on the head, and someone having the gumption to say "You are DEAD wrong!"


Yes. We were all DEAD in our sins once...

In my experience, a lot of women who wander into this type of thinking are deeply wounded. They've been sexually abused. Some have been abandoned. Many of them are post-abortive. And the Church has failed to do anything but judge them, harshly. Few Churches, at least that I have experienced, are there to help guide and direct; that's why there are so many para-Church organisations and 12-step programs.

Jesus is good. Pure. Safe. Jesus loves them, this they know; for the Bible tells them so! So these folk transfer their neediness and loneliness and desires to Him. Rather than heaping more judgement and condemnation upon them, I think discipling them into right thinking, and, yes, Christian counseling is the more loving alternative. It is so much more productive than more correction which, too often, brings more guilt.

I know, when I was enduring my Widowhood, the thought of Jesus "husbanding" me (as in nurturing and caring for and protecting me...NOT SEXUAL AT ALL) was a real comfort to me. I had been married for almost 29 years. I was suddenly, and irrevocably alone. Night-time was the worst. So, yes, I could well imagine Jesus filling up the empty space beside me like a Mother, or a Friend to stave off the cold and the loneliness. A queen-size bed is a vast, empty desert after the death of your Beloved. If statistics are correct, most of us women will understand that all to well someday, as Husbands usually die before Wives.

But I digress...

Sexual imagery with the Godhead is wrong. Flat-out wrong. But instead of jumping to judgment, I pity these women. Jesus is the perfect Friend. After abuse in relationships, who wouldn't want a perfect one?

Aoi.



bluestone -> RE: Portraying Our Lord in a romantic manner (5/1/2008 1:05:18 PM)

The more people are tolerated who think this type of stuff, the more invasive in the church it becomes. Coddling them is not the answer.

Firmly saying "NO" has to be the response of those in churches who do not want this idea beccoming invasive.

We can't not teach the truth because it hurts feelings.[&:]



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