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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 3:06:36 PM
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ladioffaith
Posts: 2993
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From: NE Ohio (L.A. . . Lower Akron)
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Posting semi-blind here ... I promise I'll read everyone's posts more closely later. 
There are some things about myself that I just won't discuss, or will discuss in limited fashion, both here and around Christians.
For example ... I tend not to talk about how I like the Harry Potter books, because I too do not want to get into a debate/argument about the subject. I also know that the books are a lightening rod for some people with certain struggles, and I don't want to be a stumbling block for them.
I also will not talk about struggles a friend of mine faces online. Those are no business of anyone who has not met him, and I would hate for people to "pre-judge" this person should they ever meet him. People would jump to conclusions about him and also about me by extension.
There are certain things about family members that I will not disclose publicly either for the same reason.
And there are times I just want support and not a bunch of advice or debate.
If you put too much about yourself out there in any public forum, it can very easily get thrown in your face at some point.
The person whose post you're referring to ... I've seen her online and also spent time with her face to face. She is genuine and a true believer and does not have anything to be ashamed of. But I can also understand her need to keep her private life private, and the desire not to get into a debate or get a bunch of unsolicited advice.
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The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save.
He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with
his love, he will rejoice over you with singing." Zeph. 3:17
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 3:43:19 PM
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makarizo
Posts: 3006
Joined: 4/13/2005
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all 3 tries to get thru the 1st harry potter movie all ended in deep sleep.
book good/ movie boring
I like that non single topics can be discussed in single forums.
I am as real as they come, but I am also the most misunderstood man on the planet Earth.
and when I am misunderstood, and someone (in cyberlife, or in real life) tries to fill in the misunderstood blanks, I am suddenly dehumanized, & a wall suddenly appears.. out of nowhere!!!
the observation:
the people wearing those "Christian" hats do that much more frequently than those (Christian or not) not wearing those hats.
I don't know why it works that way, I just know that it does indeed work that way.
I have met some wonderful people on Open Diary, and I have met some wonderful people from Crosswalk.
in real life they are no different, in cyber life, one of the 2 are wearing Christian hats.
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 4:05:10 PM
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shemaromans
Posts: 3831
Joined: 3/30/2007
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While I've been thinking about this thread, the only thoughts that have continously repeated themselves are:
* how do I define real
* by what do I measure my authenticity
The answer to both rests within God's word. It provides the blueprint for our lives. It's the genuine litmus test or standard.
Do I live differently amongst the lost as I do here and elsewhere amongst the saved? I sure hope that I don't (and don't believe that I do). The only way that I can see that I might act differently is that I'll be less inclined to repeat a verse with a nonChristian. I want those people to see Jesus through my actions, not to see a person with whom they can't relate. We're all sinners.
***Potential "Unnervement" Alert***
What I've observed over the course of a year here is that everyone has rubbed someone wrong, in one way or another. Eveyone last one of us, even the lurkers since they do not respond to the posts of the people who think that no one listens to them. None of us has consistently posted with the amount of grace that God expects of us. We all fall short.
Again, I fall back on the Bible. It's my road map. It tells us to hold each other accountable. If someone wants to be upset with me for pointing out a Biblical truth, then they can be upset with me. In truth, it's a good thing as God can work in those people's lives to grow them, if they'll be open to his nudgings. And vice versa. I want others to hold me accountable as well and for God to teach me through their reminders of the truth. In fact, I welcome it.
Sometimes the best way to arrive at the correct interpretation of the Scripture is to objectively engage in discussion, however long it takes to arrive at a consensus (or a draw).
We cannot control the way in which other people choose to infer our meanings. That's their choice. We shouldn't expect them to change who they are, and we shouldn't change the way that we are either. We can only approach our posts honestly and with gentle, loving hearts.
As far as I can tell, the purpose of the forums isn't to coddle each other with "feel good" words and an "anything goes" mentality. The Bible expects a higher standard than that in our life. The same standard should apply here.
I hope that makes sense. My attention's divided at the moment.
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"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 4:26:14 PM
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sunluvingirl
Posts: 2110
Joined: 6/11/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shemaromans
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunluvingirl
quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
There are SOOOO many things (having nothing whatever to do with salvation or even right living) that are nit-picked apart by Christians "correcting" each other that, for many of us, it's just not worth putting ourselves out there for it.
quote:
AMEN, thats EXACTLY how it is!!
If you're focused on scripture, then you'd be putting God's word out there. Eventually, these people might just see their errors.
God wants us to put ourselves out there, and we should want to put ourselves out there in light of Jesus' sacrifice. Paul's an excellent example. What would the Bible be like if Paul didn't put himself out there? How far would the Gospel have spread without his willingness to put himself out there? (granted, God could have used someone else just as intense)
*** I feel the need to include a disclaimer: in no way am I judging either of you or attacking your posts. I'm simply making a suggestion and still love you both. 
You do have a point, Shema! Thanks I certainly am not going to be a hypocrite or compromise, I guess just don't have the guts to start up a debate on something that may be dear or important to me or how I might feel on a certain issue thats got nothing to do with being right or wrong when I know it would just get stomped into the dust. I guess I see it kinda like I mentioned before, its almost like casting your pearls before swine. I hope I'm not taking that scripture out of context. Certainly there are times when it needs to be done, I'm just not one to bring up controversial issues to debate on when the Bible has no black & white rule on it. I hope I don't sound like I'm on the defense cause thats not how I meant it. I love you too !!
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 "There are no accidents in the life of faith. In its music, the accidentals perfect the harmony."
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 4:32:11 PM
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shemaromans
Posts: 3831
Joined: 3/30/2007
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I didn't infer any defensiveness on your part. You were merely posting your opinion, and I posted mine in reply. It can really be a lot of fun when we remember to keep our heads and wits about us!
And your opinions don't always have to lead to a debate. If someone starts to take the conversation in a direction or with an intensity that you don't want, graciously bow out. That can witness to someone just as effectively as adamantly stating/defending your opinion. Sometimes it's a matter of just dropping a few nuggets of Biblical truth and allowing God to take it from there.
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"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 4:53:22 PM
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Pauley464
Posts: 526
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Washington, Indiana
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I am real with both believers and unbelievers. By "real", I mean that I am myself. I don't try to be someone I am not and I don't misrepresent myself. However, I am more open (both on-line and IRL) with unbelievers than I am with believers for the simple reason that, in my experience anyway, unbelievers are much less judgemental. This belief has been supported by the fact that when I did reveal, on this forum, the parts of my life I normally keep to myself, I was openly ridiculed on three different occasions.
So unless it is a person that I have known for many years and trust implicitly, I remain closed. Especially on CW.
Does that mean that I am not being real? I don't know. But I do know that there are some things that I will not talk about anymore.
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There is nothing so important that it can't be put off until tomorrow.
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 4:56:03 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8009
Joined: 9/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgod
I also have a terrible habit of noticing things. Like for instance, why do we always assume that people who are poor need Christ more than anyone else (lots of witnessing in the inner city, little witnessing in suburban america ...)? Is it because it is easier, because we've made some sort of connection between wealth and salvation, or is it because we are led to go there? Or why do we bash gay people to bits then expect them to listen to us about Christ's love? I think these things, but usually don't share a lot of these views right off the bat because I'll probably be stoned. Sometimes I don't share because the bible tells us to avoid vain arguments. So if it is going to lead to a huge pointless fight, I'll just defer. But if asked for my view, I'll give it.
This is an excellent point. We have a neighborhood here in town (Hamilton courts) where evangelism is almost totally fruitless now because every church with 10 miles had an outreach to that one place. Just because people are poor doesn't mean they are more lost.
(An interesting thing happened as I tried to quote this post. The above paragraph disappeared from the quoted material!!)
quote:
It is all about what is "inside of the cup," inside of our hearts more than what is on the outside anyway. But I do try to use wisdom and discretion about what and how much I share, IRL or on the net.
Very true.
quote:
I'm glad you wrote this because I've felt like that here. Some have really reached out to me - and I appreciate it! Sometimes though, conversations go on right around me, the way water flows around a rock in the stream. I was tempted one day to write a post that said "Do I exist? Can anyone else see the words that I've typed on this screen, or is this just an illusion?"
This is a problem that all of us need do better on (Collectively. Some of us do a great job, some not so great)
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 4:59:00 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8009
Joined: 9/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgod
quote:
I can understand the avoiding argument side of things but one of the things that caught me in the other thread was the willingness to share these things with the lost but not with the Christians. That's the part I don't undertsand
The OP that you are responding to should be able to answer your question better than I, but I thought I'd chime in here. Often, if there is a disagreement on an issue with a Christian on a point that is negotiable - they turn it into a question of whether you are saved or if there is a "problem with your walk" - and they treat you differently. I'm not talking about fornication or adultery. But I'm talking about a disagreement on a trivial matter - and this becomes a core issue and a condemnation about your life and your love of Christ. If you listen to secular music for example, lots of Christians will think that you are carnal and sinful - not that you might happen to like punk rock music. Non-christians don't have that hangup. They can understand that you like punk rock music, understand why you might opt to not listen to certain songs of questionable content (because you are "religious") but won't judge you because of it. (They might judge you on other things however).
This is another area that I don't understand. There is some metal (for example) music that is not anti-Christian. If you like the sound and it's not anti-Christian than why would anyone condemn you for it? Makes no sense to me.
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 5:05:45 PM
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Pauley464
Posts: 526
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Washington, Indiana
Status: offline
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quote:
If you like the sound and it's not anti-Christian than why would anyone condemn you for it?
The judgemental attitude that becomes the norm for so many christians.
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There is nothing so important that it can't be put off until tomorrow.
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 5:08:24 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 7697
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shemaromans
While I've been thinking about this thread, the only thoughts that have continously repeated themselves are:
* how do I define real
* by what do I measure my authenticity
The answer to both rests within God's word. It provides the blueprint for our lives. It's the genuine litmus test or standard.
Do I live differently amongst the lost as I do here and elsewhere amongst the saved? I sure hope that I don't (and don't believe that I do). The only way that I can see that I might act differently is that I'll be less inclined to repeat a verse with a nonChristian. I want those people to see Jesus through my actions, not to see a person with whom they can't relate. We're all sinners.
***Potential "Unnervement" Alert***
What I've observed over the course of a year here is that everyone has rubbed someone wrong, in one way or another. Eveyone last one of us, even the lurkers since they do not respond to the posts of the people who think that no one listens to them. None of us has consistently posted with the amount of grace that God expects of us. We all fall short.
Again, I fall back on the Bible. It's my road map. It tells us to hold each other accountable. If someone wants to be upset with me for pointing out a Biblical truth, then they can be upset with me. In truth, it's a good thing as God can work in those people's lives to grow them, if they'll be open to his nudgings. And vice versa. I want others to hold me accountable as well and for God to teach me through their reminders of the truth. In fact, I welcome it.
Sometimes the best way to arrive at the correct interpretation of the Scripture is to objectively engage in discussion, however long it takes to arrive at a consensus (or a draw).
We cannot control the way in which other people choose to infer our meanings. That's their choice. We shouldn't expect them to change who they are, and we shouldn't change the way that we are either. We can only approach our posts honestly and with gentle, loving hearts.
As far as I can tell, the purpose of the forums isn't to coddle each other with "feel good" words and an "anything goes" mentality. The Bible expects a higher standard than that in our life. The same standard should apply here.
I hope that makes sense. My attention's divided at the moment.
I could really be reading your post wrong, but here's my take on it. Yes, the Bible is what we should base our lives on and yes we should accept the accountability of other Bible believers to uphold us to that standard.
My problem is not in that correction. Believe me, if I am doing something wrong I expect to be called out on it, if God hasn't done so already. What I am speaking of is when people judge others based on their own convictions. Perfect example is my brother who believes that he is walking closer to God than I am simply because I cut my hair, wear makeup and jewelry and don't wear dresses 24/7. Those are the type of people that I don't open up to. The ones that would rather judge me than love me. And believe me there are people like that on here. People who think there is something wrong with you because you don't agree with them. Those are the type of people who ruin it for the others until trust has been established. These people are the reason why others don't want to be 'real' on here. Not because we aren't convicted enough to stand up for ourselves but because quite frankly it's a waste of time when someone's mind is made up. Look at the remarriage thread. How long is it now? It's crazy. The debate goes on. Neither side is going to agree so why continue?
Time and time again people say that they feel comfortable here, they feel accepted here and other state that there other places that are open and welcoming as well. I'm sure it's that way for some people, but for others, it's not. I have only felt welcome in one area and that's here. So here is where I stay. Trust is being established. Confidentiality and encouragement has been shown. So little by little people will know more and more about me. Those that I talk to off of here as well understand exactly what I mean.
I am not good at making friends because of how guarded I keep myself so when I make them they tend to learn more about me than they ever thought possible. *grin*
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 5:11:42 PM
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trainfan
Posts: 2331
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: neither here nor there
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pauley464
quote:
If you like the sound and it's not anti-Christian than why would anyone condemn you for it?
The judgemental attitude that becomes the norm for so many christians.
There you go, my thought exactly.
I tend to be more myself on here than around Christians IRL, (although there are some things I never bring up on here either) particularly ones I don't well simply b/c of the almost constant judgemental attitudes.
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 5:15:30 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8009
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
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Besideherself --> great posts
Shema --> Great posts
all others ---> great posts
(This should teach me to never start a thread while I'm camping!)
I'm amazed that people have encountered so much condemnation from other Christians. That is one thing that we are not to do (There is no condemnation in Christ)
I am open because, as Shema said, I learn through discussion. I've learned, and changed my views on some issues on this site that way.
So the problem isn't so much that we feel more comfortable among the lost than among the family but that the family is NOT fulfilling it's duty to each other to correct in love. (We're apparently really good on the correction and really short on the love). Would you call that an accurate read of the matter?
(Got to go have a bike race with the girl.)
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 5:25:41 PM
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Pauley464
Posts: 526
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Washington, Indiana
Status: offline
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quote:
So the problem isn't so much that we feel more comfortable among the lost than among the family but that the family is NOT fulfilling it's duty to each other to correct in love. (We're apparently really good on the correction and really short on the love). Would you call that an accurate read of the matter?
Not really. The times I have been corrected by a christian brother or sister, it has been done in love. But on more occasions I have been condemned without any hint of correction. You are correct in your statement that, "...the family is NOT fulfilling it's duty to each other to correct in love." The problem is that what most of the family does is not correction but condemnation. It's like the pharisee who prayed to God thanking Him because he wasn't like the tax collector...they want people to see the sins of others so they will look more righteous in comparison. There is no love nor correction, only the self-serving revelation of others sins.
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There is nothing so important that it can't be put off until tomorrow.
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 5:29:45 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 7697
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pauley464
quote:
So the problem isn't so much that we feel more comfortable among the lost than among the family but that the family is NOT fulfilling it's duty to each other to correct in love. (We're apparently really good on the correction and really short on the love). Would you call that an accurate read of the matter?
Not really. The times I have been corrected by a christian brother or sister, it has been done in love. But on more occasions I have been condemned without any hint of correction. You are correct in your statement that, "...the family is NOT fulfilling it's duty to each other to correct in love." The problem is that what most of the family does is not correction but condemnation. It's like the pharisee who prayed to God thanking Him because he wasn't like the tax collector...they want people to see the sins of others so they will look more righteous in comparison. There is no love nor correction, only the self-serving revelation of others sins.
I would agree with this.
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 5:33:33 PM
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BugLady
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The other thing I'd like to add is there is being real, being transparent, and then there's being an exhibitionist. Sometimes the lines between those things get a little blurred.
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The Legislature finds and declares that crimes against elders and dependent adults are deserving of special consideration and protection. . .
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 7:10:27 PM
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shemaromans
Posts: 3831
Joined: 3/30/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: shemaromans
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunluvingirl
quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
There are SOOOO many things (having nothing whatever to do with salvation or even right living) that are nit-picked apart by Christians "correcting" each other that, for many of us, it's just not worth putting ourselves out there for it.
quote:
AMEN, thats EXACTLY how it is!!
If you're focused on scripture, then you'd be putting God's word out there. Eventually, these people might just see their errors.
God wants us to put ourselves out there, and we should want to put ourselves out there in light of Jesus' sacrifice. Paul's an excellent example. What would the Bible be like if Paul didn't put himself out there? How far would the Gospel have spread without his willingness to put himself out there? (granted, God could have used someone else just as intense)
*** I feel the need to include a disclaimer: in no way am I judging either of you or attacking your posts. I'm simply making a suggestion and still love you both.
I rest my case.
Did you read my disclaimer? And did you read my post prior to that one? If I'm understanding you correctly, you're choosing to assume that I was nitpicking, condemning, or judging you, and I wasn't doing any of those things. I was merely offering my opinion and a suggestion about your post, which I'm entitled to do considering this is a public forum. In no way was I trying to negate or invalidate your opinion or experiences.
I don't understand what's so wrong with focusing on scripture (and I wasn't assuming that you weren't/don't). I was simply proposing a solution to a problem that you said you often face.
Does that make sense?
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"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 7:14:45 PM
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CoeurdeLeon_
Posts: 9470
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
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Sure, Shema. This is just one of those instances where I don't wish to expend the energy fruitlessly trying to explain myself. I said it twice. That's my limit at this particular moment in time.
< Message edited by CoeurdeLeon -- 4/26/2008 7:21:17 PM >
_____________________________
This morning I was awakened by the sound of purple
colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
Eutychus
10.13.08
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RE: Can we be real here? - 4/26/2008 7:17:46 PM
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shemaromans
Posts: 3831
Joined: 3/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
I could really be reading your post wrong, but here's my take on it. Yes, the Bible is what we should base our lives on and yes we should accept the accountability of other Bible believers to uphold us to that standard.
My problem is not in that correction. Believe me, if I am doing something wrong I expect to be called out on it, if God hasn't done so already. What I am speaking of is when people judge others based on their own convictions. Perfect example is my brother who believes that he is walking closer to God than I am simply because I cut my hair, wear makeup and jewelry and don't wear dresses 24/7. Those are the type of people that I don't open up to. The ones that would rather judge me than love me. And believe me there are people like that on here. People who think there is something wrong with you because you don't agree with them. Those are the type of people who ruin it for the others until trust has been established. These people are the reason why others don't want to be 'real' on here. Not because we aren't convicted enough to stand up for ourselves but because quite frankly it's a waste of time when someone's mind is made up. Look at the remarriage thread. How long is it now? It's crazy. The debate goes on. Neither side is going to agree so why continue?
Time and time again people say that they feel comfortable here, they feel accepted here and other state that there other places that are open and welcoming as well. I'm sure it's that way for some people, but for others, it's not. I have only felt welcome in one area and that's here. So here is where I stay. Trust is being established. Confidentiality and encouragement has been shown. So little by little people will know more and more about me. Those that I talk to off of here as well understand exactly what I mean.
I am not good at making friends because of how guarded I keep myself so when I make them they tend to learn more about me than they ever thought possible. *grin*
I'm not sure that we can do anything about people who fail to love others. That's God's business. We can, though, model putting others before ourselves. We'll need a lot of patience around the EGRs (Extra Grace Requirements--and we all earn that moniker in one way or another), but we're supposed to help each other live up to what God wants. If we don't op | | |
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Your comments are not vain or pointless in my opinion, Thankyou.
Just Joking!!!!