RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (Full Version)

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doinkdom -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/2/2008 11:29:25 AM)

{{{{covenant2}}}} conflict is hard

this is an excerpt from Peacemaker Ministries:

********************

True peacemaking is founded on the ministry of reconciliation, that while we were yet sinners, God reconciled the world to himself through his only son, Jesus (see Rom. 5:8; 2 Cor. 5:11-21). As forgiven children, we demonstrate love for our Father through our ministry of reconciliation to each other.

In his book The Peacemaker: A Biblical Guide to Resolving Personal Conflict, Ken Sande summarizes what God teaches about resolving conflict in four principles, which Ken refers to as "The Four G's":

Glorify God - How can I please and honor God in this situation, and how can I give witness to what he has done for me through Christ?

Get the log out of your eye - How have I contributed to this conflict and what do I need to do to resolve it?

Gently restore - How can I help others to understand how they have contributed to this conflict?

Go and be reconciled - How can I demonstrate forgiveness and encourage a reasonable solution to this conflict?

*******************************


I would recommend you go to their website and peruse it for articles, encouragement and also tools that you and your husband can use to restore your relationships.

You will have to set aside your personal wants/desires and determine for yourself how much God has forgiven in you and how much you are to truly forgive others - not faking it, not silently seething, none of that...truly forgive.

It's so much easier said than done, believe me. But with God's grace - you can do it.



bzirk -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/2/2008 3:29:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

{{{{covenant2}}}} conflict is hard

this is an excerpt from Peacemaker Ministries:

********************

True peacemaking is founded on the ministry of reconciliation, that while we were yet sinners, God reconciled the world to himself through his only son, Jesus (see Rom. 5:8; 2 Cor. 5:11-21). As forgiven children, we demonstrate love for our Father through our ministry of reconciliation to each other.

In his book The Peacemaker: A Biblical Guide to Resolving Personal Conflict, Ken Sande summarizes what God teaches about resolving conflict in four principles, which Ken refers to as "The Four G's":

Glorify God - How can I please and honor God in this situation, and how can I give witness to what he has done for me through Christ?

Get the log out of your eye - How have I contributed to this conflict and what do I need to do to resolve it?

Gently restore - How can I help others to understand how they have contributed to this conflict?

Go and be reconciled - How can I demonstrate forgiveness and encourage a reasonable solution to this conflict?

*******************************


I would recommend you go to their website and peruse it for articles, encouragement and also tools that you and your husband can use to restore your relationships.

You will have to set aside your personal wants/desires and determine for yourself how much God has forgiven in you and how much you are to truly forgive others - not faking it, not silently seething, none of that...truly forgive.

It's so much easier said than done, believe me. But with God's grace - you can do it.


Wish I could give you some stars for this one. Great encouragement.

Covenant2,

One thing has kept coming to me as I read this thread -- that it hasn't been clear (to me at least) what you thought should be conceded, and yet it's important to understand what, if anything, needs to be conceded in order to have a resolution to the situation. I haven't been sure of the best way to convey my thoughts about this, and then Connie posted this above. That post gets at the heart of this issue -- namely, that your expectations need to be closely aligned with the Lord's. None of us have them aligned perfectly; we're all in process on that, so I don't want it to sound as if I've got everything figured out and you need to get straight like my perfect self. [&:] I'm simply saying that at the end of the day, it's about us doing the Lord's will, and it's good for us to encourage each other in this pursuit.

If I were in your shoes, I would look at this situation as an opportunity for the Lord to make me more in the image of Christ. I heartily agree with Connie that this is easier said than done. NO question about that. But we can do it and with joy, because the Lord's word says we can. James' instruction comes to mind: "Count it pure joy when you face various trials..."

So count this a joy because it is an opportunity to show honor to the Lord above all else. If you'll do that, you will be at peace about this, and it can be amazing what will happen in the relationship you have with your daughter-in-law. I know you realize this potential and it's what you want, but you can't let this offense keep you from walking as you should -- light as well as salt.

So may the Lord lighten your heart about this while giving you great wisdom.



doinkdom -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/2/2008 3:33:14 PM)

[sm=thumbsup.gif] you the girl, lisa!



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/2/2008 7:34:15 PM)

(Mat 18:15-18) "Now if [a fellow Christian] sins against you, go and [discuss] the fault between you and [her] alone, if she [listens to] you, you gained your [sister]. But if [she] does not listen [you], take along with you one or two [other Christians], so that 'by [the] mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established. But if [she] refuses to listen to them, tell [it] to the [church]; but if [she] also refuses to listen to the [church], let him be to you as a heathen and a tax-collector. (I have personalized these verses but have kept them within the intended meaning.)

From this many on this thread should be able to see that, contrary to the way that Jesus sees conflict within the Christian community, He would not be putting into writing what many have written thus far about my submission to what I thought was a Christian forum.

From these verses there are several things, which Jesus himself acknowledges, will happen within the imperfect church community while still here on earth.
1- "Now if [a fellow Christian] sins against you,... A Christian will do things to hurt other Christians. Making false accusations and repeating them to others was slanderous, and according to the 10 commandments, was “dishonoring to us a parents” (Commandment #1) and was “bearing false witness against another person.” (Commandment #5)
- - - Jesus is acknowledging that in every conflict there is a “victim and an aggressor.” Without airing dirty laundry about my DIL, I merely asked that my word be taken as being truthful about the circumstances that occurred almost 2 years ago. Yet, it is clear that most all here have simply decided that I had to have been the aggressor without knowing any of the circumstance surrounding the event. Isn’t that what the Pharisees did to Jesus?

2- “...go and [discuss] the fault between you and him alone...”
- - - The first thing that was supposed to happen according to scripture is that the “person that was harmed” was to take the initiative and go immediately to the aggressor to make an attempt to bring about a peaceful resolution. That has been attempted but she has been hiding behind the protectors (until recently when she finally did agree to counseling as a group in January and then agreed to a second group meeting in April to continue discussing it.)
-.-.-.-.Now nowhere in the above verses does it even imply that there are restrictions on who can go to who directly and who cannot. It is simply intended to be any victim and any aggressor – period!
- - - Since she was being protected from discussing it directly we explained in great detail about how we felt, and why we couldn’t have done what we were being accused of through “message relay” via countless emails but they were never taken seriously at all.

3- ...”But if [she] does not listen [you], Nothing we said was considered valid and no explanation as to why they wouldn’t believe us was given.

4- ...” take along with you one or two [other Christians], so that 'by [the] mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established...” In a variation of that it did occur once before the process was cut off by the counselor with no legitimate explanation that made sense as they contradicted themselves.

5- ...” But if [she] refuses to listen to them,...” She did listen, some progress was made but, also once again, during the session she still blurted out the same false accusations and even added a new one that we hadn’t had a clue about until then. (It was essentially blaming us for a decision that they had actually made between the two of them that we didn’t even know about!)

6- ...” But if [she] refuses to listen to them, tell [it] to the [church]; but if he also refuses to listen to the [church], We have absolutely no intentions of doing that over a family dispute.

7- ...” he shall be to you just like the heathen and the tax collector.” In my opinion, Jesus is saying; you have attempted work the process as I have asked. There will be those that have a hardened heart and until (or if and when) that Christian is convicted by the Holy Spirit from within there is nothing further that you can do from without. Just leave them alone and perhaps they will realize how wrong they were later on.

Now I will agree with a few things that have been said here, and in fact have always felt that “you cannot force anyone to apologize because you only have control over yourself.” I don’t know how that idea ever got so distorted. When I said that we had “dug our heels in” it too got distorted. Digging our heels in was intended to say that we are doing exactly what Jesus above was telling us to do – just walk away (mentally, physically and spiritually) so that you yourself don’t get pulled down by it. We are at that point. We do also believe that apologies are very, very important and are definitely supported and found in scripture. Below is some research from various sources that I had done some time ago and it shows that there are important benefits for both parties.

DEFINITION OF APOLOGY - a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, lied to, failed, or wronged another either intentionally or unintentionally.

· Admitting to actions that caused emotional stress, bodily harm or monetary loss to another.

WHY REQUEST AND APOLOGY?
· To acknowledge how you were hurt.
· To confirm that the other person accepts responsibility
· To make sure it won’t happen again
· To reconcile the relationship
· To restore your reputation

WHAT ARE THE REASONS FOR AND THE BENEFITS OF APOLOGIZING?
1. Justice and fairness demand that we apologize any time we hurt others.
2. It is an opportunity to grow more spiritual by practicing humility.
3. It is a gift offered to the victim, for by showing them they are worthy of an apology, it offers them respect and restore the esteem that was taken away by the offense.
4. It prevents small problems from getting bigger from retaliation.
5. It prevents grudges from turning into conflicts.
6. To bring healing and to restore the connection to damaged relationships, for by apologizing, it express that one cares enough about the relationship and that it is important enough to want to make amends.
7. The victim grows spiritually by later offering the gift of forgiveness.
8. Since people are imperfect, mistakes will be made, and apologies will have to be accepted to restore harmony.
9. By accepting responsibility and showing respect for the injured party, the relationship may actually become strengthen by showing that both are capable of acting in an adult manner.
10. By making up for the misconduct, there will be a sense of freedom from remorse, regret, guilt, and unhappiness. Instead of being ashamed of the behavior, spiritual maturity and strength of character are the positive results from the misconduct.
11. Restores confidence that the offender has done right with humanity and therefore free to ask forgiveness from our God.
12. When the offender apologizes properly, tension is eased and trust is restored. When we make someone happy again we get happiness in return.

Both my husband and I want the very best relationship that is possible with our son and DIL but Jesus does not ask us to tolerate certain behavior that is over-the-top unless it is for the sake of the gospel - this isn't. In the meantime, we will pray that the Holy Spirit softens their hearts and that they will begin behaving like the Christians they claim to be. Forgiveness is a given when people ask for it. Just a few verses down from the above verses in Mt 18:21-22 Peter asks the question; "...how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Until seven times? Jesus said to him, I do not say to you, Until seven times; but, Until seventy times seven. However, even if that person does not ask for forgiveness, we are still to forgive in our hearts in order to prevent resentment and retaliation. I think we have done that.



Memaw. -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/2/2008 8:29:44 PM)

Covenant,
You did welcome opinions, and in such a diverse group as this forums, there are many differing opinions.

Your title asks, who should concede in this family conflict?

According to the information provided, the consensus is that you and your spouse concede.

It is extremely difficult to give advice without all the information and to get that, your DIL and son would have to come here and post. Seeing that they haven't, we can only give advice and opinions from what has been posted.

My advice stands, forgive and forget.
Love your son, DIL and grandchildren unconditionally as our Father does.
Live is too short to have regrets and families are too important to let go of.



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/2/2008 8:51:40 PM)

I don't mind differing opinions at all - otherwise I wouldn't have asked. But, it is how most have differed that is troubling coming from a Christian website.



buckifn -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/2/2008 9:08:59 PM)

According to what you posted in post 78 (much too long to copy and quote) it seems you have the scriptures to answer you already...so what exactly is it you are looking for now? I don't know how anyone could be any kinder to say stay out of your son's marriage and accept the fact he is now an adult and has his own life.

Give it all up completely to God and leave it alone.



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/2/2008 9:22:11 PM)

Did it ever occur to you that they have affected OUR MARRIAGE too???? You seem to always have a biased one tract message that is really a distorted view of cleave. Should a husband continue to protect a spouse that had stolen money from his parent also?

Please don't bother responding, I am well aware of your bias by now. God Bless![:)]



pbaribeault -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/2/2008 9:34:54 PM)

I agree with most of your extensive and highly Scriptural post... right up until your interpretation applied to point #7
quote:

Just leave them alone...just walk away (mentally, physically and spiritually)
That's not how Jesus treated gentiles, sinners, or tax collectors -- nor is it in line with what the Scriptures teach us about our duty to the lost. You are free to pursue a relationship with them in exactly the same manner you would have, had your son married an unbeliever, even if she never changes her mind about her accusations.

I'm also very much in agreement with the benefits of apologizing. I particularly think your relationship would be improved by #2, #4 and #8, should you happen to decide to apologize to your son and dil for disobeying Romans 12:18, Philippians 2:1-4 and for disregarding James 13:17-18. (When you chose to risk your relationship by inflexible in refusing to attend a session that would probably have been useless.)



stampinlady -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/2/2008 10:32:19 PM)

If you believe that you've done everything biblically then you should concede. There's really nothing more to discuss, but you seeem to insist on having things your way, at least that's how it appears to me. Leave it and let God change everyones hearts.



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/3/2008 7:44:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

If you believe that you've done everything biblically then you should concede. There's really nothing more to discuss, but you seeem to insist on having things your way, at least that's how it appears to me.


Did you actually read my last post? Could you tell me where in scripture you get the message that you are to submit to those who do you harm and stubbornly refuse to undo that harm? Yet, your message says that if we do choose to "leave it and let God change everyones hearts" we are merely being unreasonably stubborn and "insisting on doing it our way." Yet, I will agree that is definately the view of the majority here - and I would add that it is the view of the majority in society today. It is the false message that says; "Do anything you want to harm your neighbor by ruining their character, gossiping or telling lies about them to others and we will protect you from having to accept responsibility for your behavior." I would even go so far as to say that I truly believe that it is one of the primary causes of the degeneration of moral behavior in our society today. The youth of today has the mindset that I can do what I want, say what I want and hurt whomever I want and no one can stop me. Accountability begins in the home and spreads to society. If no accountability is seen in the home no accountability is seen in society and in the courts. It is a message that contradicts the heart of the message of Christ. In Luk 17:3 & 4 Jesus makes it very clear that we do not have to submit to clear and deliberate acts that does harm to anothers character and ruins other relationships along with it. Please tell me how the popular message of this thread and the same thread that permeates society today agrees with the message of Christ's message of;
quote:

"Take heed to yourselves. If your brother trespasses against you, rebuke him. And IF he repents, forgive him. And if he trespasses against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turns again to you, saying, I repent, you shall forgive him."


I do believe in turning the other cheek and we have done that quite often with our son and his wife over minor and unimportant things that were done that we did not like but kept our mouth shut about for the sake of peaceful relationships but perhaps that was not the right thing to do because I believe that the more she got away with the worse it seemed to get for us. And yet, we are still open to having the best relationship possible but there has to be compassion for us as well.

God Bless!



GregandJenny -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/3/2008 9:09:23 AM)

Are you sure they want to have a relationship with you and your husband? If they don't want one then there is no way you can get one.



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/3/2008 12:58:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GregandJenny

Are you sure they want to have a relationship with you and your husband? If they don't want one then there is no way you can get one.


Yes, I believe that in their heart of hearts they really do - especially our son. I know he does but I believe that she is not willing to do anything to help him resolve this and I fear that he is too much of a follower to say anything to her because she would take it as "not supporting her." She has said before that she has tested him and that he proved his allegiance to her. We fear, and I will say without any real proof, that her "body language/expressions" and sometimes "tone of voice" can be of a testy nature. Outwardly, she always appears to be friendly toward us when he was present but inwardly I really don't know. She did make a general comment once that "family was not all that important to her."



agapetos -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/3/2008 1:40:08 PM)

quote:

But, it is how most have differed that is troubling coming from a Christian website.
Just because we are all Christians doesn't mean we share the exact same point of view...

Take a look at some of the threads and see...

There are differences on smoking, on drinking alcohol, on speeding (when driving), on which version of the Bible is the best, the list is endless...



covenant2 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/3/2008 4:31:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agapetos

quote:

But, it is how most have differed that is troubling coming from a Christian website.

Poster's response: "Just because we are all Christians doesn't mean we share the exact same point of view..."


Sir/Mam, I see that you are a senior member. That means that you have made many posts and have read many posts. Yet, you seem to have missed the whole point in a very easy and understandable sentence. What was the fourth word in the sentence? How. In other words it is not that a person 'does' disagree but the 'manner' in which many have disagreed.



Hislittleone -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/3/2008 10:54:34 PM)

Matthew 5
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.

38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Luke 6:27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Matthew 18:15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'[c] 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

So we must ask ourselves how we are to treat the pagans and tax collectors? I think this next passage answers that question. Jesus ate and had fellowship with tax collectors and sinners. So if you are going to treat your son and dil like "pagans and tax collectors" I suggest you follow Jesus' example here.

Matthew 9:9As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector's booth. "Follow me," he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.
10While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" came and ate with him and his disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

12On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."


1 Corinthians 5:9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

This passage seems to contradict the other passages. However, God doesn't contradict Himself. So what am I missing here? The Bible seems to be saying two different things.

I can only conclude that there are certain rare instances when a brother or sister in the Lord is living in sin that we should no longer associate ourselves with them until they repent. But I think we should be careful to apply this to someone who is truly evil while calling themselves a Christian. So if your dil is truly evil and wicked, then you must not associate with her. But if this is a case of misunderstandings and some falsehoods being told I think you should "turn the other cheek". I believe our overall attitude/actions should be ones of love, grace and mercy.

Luke 6:45The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

covenant2:
quote:

That means that you have made many posts and have read many posts. Yet, you seem to have missed the whole point in a very easy and understandable sentence. What was the fourth word in the sentence? How.


This post comes off as being sarcastic and angry. Perhaps you didn't mean it that way? I hope not but throughout this thread you have come across as quick to anger, unwilling to listen to others and unwilling to even consider conceding in this family conflict (even though you came here asking others who they thought should concede). If you come across this way to your son and dil then the conflict will only last that much longer and be that much worse. Be careful to not become bitter and resentful over this conflict.


--all Scriptures quoted from biblegateway.com
--emphasis in them is mine.



SkillfullGourmet -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/4/2008 7:18:09 AM)

Even if you have never sinned against your DIL or son AT ALL and you have been nothing but Christian and loving and perfect in your relationship, I STILL think you should concede. Tell them you love them and you're so sorry that things have gotten this mixed up and you will do whatever it takes to mend the relationship. They are obviously feeling extremely defensive if they did not want to talk to you without a counselor present.

Reasonable or not, you should have respected those feelings (even if you didn't feel like you were being respected) and met with your son in the way that he felt comfortable. This would have opened the door to further the relationship. Maybe he should have done things differently. Maybe the counselors messed it up. But you were given a small opportunity to mend things and you walked out on it. You walked out on it as if it was a product you had planned to purchase that wasn't as advertised. Well, it's not a product. It's your son. And he was trying, in his imperfect way, to meet with you in a way that he felt he could. You should apologize for leaving that meeting.



stampinlady -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/4/2008 1:51:18 PM)

quote:

Could you tell me where in scripture you get the message that you are to submit to those who do you harm and stubbornly refuse to undo that harm


[sm=popsigh.gif]



buckifn -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/4/2008 4:12:00 PM)

quote:

Please don't bother responding, I am well aware of your bias by now.


I don't know who that was written to, but if you don't want responses from people why post in a public forum?



delete123 -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/4/2008 9:14:07 PM)

Covenant~
I know many do not take to my or agree with my responses and you may not either. But I will speak my peace nonetheless.

I grew up in a very abusive relationship in my home and believe me my mother played a huge part in my abuse. However when I accepted Jesus I took His direction and forgave. (Eventhough I deal with some anger issues, but that didn't come until my bad marriage)

Anyhow moving right along, as awful as they were I chose the road of Christ and conceded to well unto them. It pained me as they have not even repented of their ways.

Ya know the pretencious smiles and welcome, blah,blah,blah!

I could have chosen the other road which would have lead to grieving the Spirit. Which causes Slander, Malice,Anger, Bitterness, etc...
However as much as I knew that I was correct in my feelings I conceded and within time God allowed the manifistation of healing to take place.

This would not have happened had I not conceded and allowed the Holy Spirit to guide me.
At first I as bitter, but some times we need to know when to hold the discepancies or arguments or when to let them go.

Just think, through all I have been through with my mother and her husband, I "given" them the priveledge of knowing my son.
They do not deserve it, but we are also do not deserve things either, do we? God has given us many things we are undeserving of, doesnt He ?

Just think, my mother and her husband abused me physically, emotionally, verbally, and sexually. Do they really deserve to know my son?

But what Grace God gave us, that we didn't really deserve to know Jesus but He extended that to us!

Do not allow a pharisee heart to blind you sweet sister, time is short. Just think of the time you are wasting, but not leaving a blessed legacy to your grandchildren.
Said a prayer for you
CRH
Corrected spelling



stampinlady -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/4/2008 10:06:58 PM)

quote:

6- ...” But if [she] refuses to listen to them, tell [it] to the [church]; but if he also refuses to listen to the [church], We have absolutely no intentions of doing that over a family dispute.


If you refuse to do this then aren't you being disobedient?????? Why won't you? You keep bringing up the "scriptural" way to handle this, but choose not to follow it through. Many have given you wonderful verses telling you to back off, but you choose to ignore them. Me thinks you want it your way.[8D]



doinkdom -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/5/2008 3:28:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: covenant2
Both my husband and I want the very best relationship that is possible with our son and DIL but Jesus does not ask us to tolerate certain behavior that is over-the-top unless it is for the sake of the gospel - this isn't. In the meantime, we will pray that the Holy Spirit softens their hearts and that they will begin behaving like the Christians they claim to be. Forgiveness is a given when people ask for it. Just a few verses down from the above verses in Mt 18:21-22 Peter asks the question; "...how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Until seven times? Jesus said to him, I do not say to you, Until seven times; but, Until seventy times seven. However, even if that person does not ask for forgiveness, we are still to forgive in our hearts in order to prevent resentment and retaliation. I think we have done that.

I agree, people do not have to ask for our forgiveness in order for us to forgive - as answered by the second bolded scripture verse.

I wanted to give you some encouragement in the area of Forgiveness and I think that by reading this particular blog posting that lists the responses of many of our current church leaders about forgiveness should do that. It's not very long and there are exerpts from men like John Piper and so forth.

As Christians, we are not responsible for the sins of others. But we are responsible for how we respond to being sinned against.

I know you desire resolution and restoration. But until your DIL is ready to confront the issue, there is very little you can physically do, but I don't think you should shake the dust off your sandals just yet. God has His own timing for a reason - I personally don't always like that, but I trust that He knows what is best for me.

Perhaps this is a season where you and your husband just draw closer to God and allow Him to minister to your hearts.



creationtalk -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/5/2008 8:29:26 PM)

Covenant,

I don't have a lot to say, however on the subject of forgiveness I've given a lot of thought. I have a few thoughts in regards to your situation and forgiveness:

"While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Jesus acted sacrificially toward us while we were sinning AGAINST him. He gave up his RIGHT to demand restitution from us (which we could never give) and instead sacrificed himself for us when we had neither asked for forgiveness nor acknowledged our wrong. If we are to act as Christ, we need to be willing to give up our right to retribution and leave that to God in his time.

The other thing on forgiveness I have realized is that everyone is already forgiven. On the cross, Jesus said "It is finished" The price of paying for the sins of every person who has lived, is living, and will ever live was paid at that instant. Everyone HAS forgiveness. It is available and offered to them. However, not all chose to accept/operate in that forgiveness and go on to salvation--which is reconcilliation with God. How that applies to us is that to be Christ like we have to forgive even if it is not requested, deserved, or accepted. Forgiveness means separating the sin from the person. If we offer forgiveness and it is accepted, then we can go on to restoration of the relationship.

One additional thought--when my xh and I were in counseling, one thing the counselor said really stuck in my mind: He said we had to decide if we wanted to be in right relationship or if we wanted to be right. We should all desire to be in right relationship with one another. Sometimes this means giving choosing let the other be "right", even if we don't believe that they are...saying sorry even if we don't feel we've done anything wrong.



nickyrh -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/6/2008 12:19:09 PM)

In my opinion it is hard to know what is going on. You say her temper caused all the problem, but does she see it that way also? If not, that would be a huge source of stress for her and her husband. If she feels blamed but not at fault it is easy to see why she would resist going.

I commend you on being willing to drive all that way and for wanting to sort it out. I too would be angry she did not attend, however I believe I would have attended anyways, if for nothing else just for my son. I am sure it is difficult. I think she should have had the decency to tell you she did not plan on attending before you drove all that way.

Without knowing the details it is simply too hard to say. Pray for the situation.

Good luck and God Bless!
Nicky



buckifn -> RE: Who should concede in this family conflict? (5/9/2008 7:35:05 AM)

quote:

Many have given you wonderful verses telling you to back off, but you choose to ignore them. Me thinks you want it your way.


Wiser words were never typed...:)



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