RE: Who will stand? (Full Version)

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HisCovenant -> RE: Who will stand? (5/10/2008 11:25:57 AM)

One thing that I realized recently... and I should probably look up the exact verse, but don't have time right now...

There's a verse in the Bible that says God is the one who sees the heart clearly. Last time I read it, it struck me that means I can't see my own heart clearly. I've always sort of believed that because there have been times I've lied to myself and lived that lie. I've watched others do it, too.



deliveredarling -> RE: Who will stand? (5/10/2008 11:51:33 AM)

Very true. I was talking to me friend yesterday and she asked me about that verse in James, confess your sins one to another..... She wanted to know what I thought about that. I told her it was a good thing to talk about stuff with other people. Sometimes when we are talking about stuff, we don't see things clearly, through our talking things out, we see things that we didn't see before. We come to a new understanding. I believe that when I am searching for an answer and have prayed (key element), God allows me to see the things I was previously blind to. maybe it's through some one else's perspective, I can see the light.

When we have overcome, when ours lives have been dramatically transformed, we stand for the things we have learned. Maybe others who haven't reached that point or learned that lesson, aren't there yet and resist. It can sound so foreign and strange.......



zamdad -> RE: Who will stand? (5/10/2008 12:16:59 PM)

quote:

Do you really want to be judged the way you judge others?


I thought I would come back and revisit this. I think I may have posted this here before. When I was supervising the sex offender caseload and co-facilitating treatment, I got to know the guys in the group so well that I knew where they were going to go with thoughts they wre trying to complete. I had the opportunity to sit and listen to them sort through their garbage and help them go through it to heal old wounds and begin the process of thinking in a way that had previously been foriegn.

At the same time I was working with these guys, I was longing for someone to be that close to me. In supervising this caseload, I was not only exposed to the things I heard, but periodic home visits exposed me to pornography as well. While I was helping them process their garbage, I had no one to help me process the collateral exposure. IN the area I live, we re mostly rural and there is a large geographical distance between me and the men I consider friends. We also work varying schedules.

I should be able to process the collateral stuff with my wife, but she doesn't want to hear about this stuff. My pastor is one of my closest neighbors. I also serve on the deacon board of the church. I went to him several times and found that he was incapable of relating on an intimate level. While he is good at counseling, his own upbringing makes it hard for him to get too close to others. Most of the men I turned to to be a Barnabas really didn't want to get that close either.

I hthink, perhaps, I need to shed some additional background here. When I came to Christ, I came out of a lifestyle of drug use and promiscuity. I have no doubt that God's hand was in my recovery. While I did not go to any type of treatment, my thinking changed. I had repentance as my thought life turned a 180. I no longer thought about the old ways. if thoughts do strike, I am able to capture those thoughts, process them and give them to Christ to deliver me from them.

I don't think I'm different than anyone else. I think we all need a Jesus with skin on. Another person we can be close enough to that we know they will listen, be there to help with a hand or pick up the pieces when we crash. I've heard this term described as a Ranger Buddy. This is something our culture has moved away from.

Toward the end of my time supervvising the sex offender caseload, I began to experience some difficulty. I think I began to get to full of myself and forgot to turn to God as the source of my strength even though I'd known from the outset that he was the source. I also slipped into some old patterns. I allowed alcohol to become frequent instead of very occasional. I allowed some other sin issues to creep in. All the while I was reaching out for help. But no one wanted to see past the facade. Afterall, I am a church leader. I have the perfect family and live the perfect life.

I finally got someone in the church to listen to me. My problems didn't go away. I am still struggling with some things. But, I have someone who will hold me accountable. Someone who is not afraid to ask me those difficult questions. Someone who is not afraid to point out sin in my life. Yes, there are times that I hate it. But, I know he loves me enough to care. Sadly, I can't say that for the majority of "the church." Even those of us who are the "go to" people within our congregations need someone to hold us accountable.

I look at the Ted Haggard situation and I can see how he got into the situation. I don't know the who's or what's. But, if he didn't have someone courageous enough to get in his business, he was bound to fall off the merry go round.

On these forums I hear the same things as those in the church all the time. "Trust God, He'll never let you down." "I'll pray for you." I know God, I know He's faithfuil. I know He's going to take me through some dark places for His purposes. I want to know that others care for me and others as much as they say God cares. Afterall, Christ tells to love our neighbor as ourselves. Frankly, I'm convinced that too many don't love themselves very much which makes it difficult to love others.

I guess I'll end this rant.



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (5/10/2008 6:01:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

When we have overcome, when ours lives have been dramatically transformed, we stand for the things we have learned. Maybe others who haven't reached that point or learned that lesson, aren't there yet and resist. It can sound so foreign and strange.......


This is so true. There are many Christians who have never been down the hard road... there are many who have never walked in our particular shoes. They don't understand.

There are many good people who have trouble ministering to others because they cannot identify with the circumstances or situation. And when they try to it's like they are speaking a foriegn language. Yet, someone else who has been down their road can come along and relate perfectly to them.

That doesn't make either person better than the other.... just different types of ministry.

Blessings...



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (5/10/2008 6:42:45 PM)

Zamdad...
God bless you for being so transparent before us. That is a wonderful quality... but even more... very Christ-like!

quote:

ORIGINAL: zamdad

At the same time I was working with these guys, I was longing for someone to be that close to me.


This is a struggle for many in the ministry... and I believe more so for men. We all need someone to be accountable to... someone to talk with, vent to. Both my husband and I understand that. We seem to constantly be bombarded with people who have some type of drug or alcohol problem, or a marriage on the rocks. And there seems to be no-one close by (we too live in a rural area) who is like-minded. We have each other, however, I'm sure my husband would like to just get away for a day with another guy and fish and just hang out.

quote:


My pastor is one of my closest neighbors. I also serve on the deacon board of the church. I went to him several times and found that he was incapable of relating on an intimate level. While he is good at counseling, his own upbringing makes it hard for him to get too close to others. Most of the men I turned to to be a Barnabas really didn't want to get that close either.


Men struggle with this. (and women too) So many men have been raised by dads who never expressed love or tenderness (such is the case with my husband)... so it is hard for them to do so. It's difficult for someone like you who wants that relationship, and can't find it.

quote:


I've heard this term described as a Ranger Buddy. This is something our culture has moved away from.


You are right... you don't see a lot of it. Here we call them "accountability partners."

quote:


All the while I was reaching out for help. But no one wanted to see past the facade. Afterall, I am a church leader. I have the perfect family and live the perfect life.


Praise God we have a Father who forgives.... and who sees and who sends His counselor. Church leaders struggle too. It's those who don't do anything about it that we have to worry about.

quote:


Even those of us who are the "go to" people within our congregations need someone to hold us accountable.


AMEN!!!!

quote:



On these forums I hear the same things as those in the church all the time. "Trust God, He'll never let you down." "I'll pray for you." I know God, I know He's faithful. I know He's going to take me through some dark places for His purposes. I want to know that others care for me and others as much as they say God cares. Afterall, Christ tells to love our neighbor as ourselves. Frankly, I'm convinced that too many don't love themselves very much which makes it difficult to love others.


I wholeheartedly agree! Amen... again!

quote:


I guess I'll end this rant.


No need. We appreciate your words of wisdom and your sensitive servants heart. [:D]

May God richly bless you!!!
Pastor Debi



SonInMe1 -> RE: Who will stand? (5/10/2008 7:23:07 PM)

quote:

If repentance is "built in," then it's like having license to continue living in sin


Completely the opposite. Being saved, you will repent. You can't be saved and live in sin and be content. You would eventually be double minded trying to serve two Masters.

quote:

I've seen too many who profess Christ but have never repented.


This would point to the fact that either they are double minded, headed for doublemindedness or not saved in the first place.

quote:

They continue doing the same, worldy things playing the grace card.


This is impossible to me, for a saved person to do. A saved person will repent. They will be Holy Spirit indwellt, convicted of their sins and repent...like I said, repentence comes from salvation and is a result from being saved. I don't see in any way or sence that this is condoning or promoting a sinful lifestyle. Completely the opposite in fact.

quote:

If they profess to accept Christ but continue living the same like, are they truly saved?


This is a difficult assessment. Not every sin just disappears. Not every sin goes away forever. I don't know about the perfect christians but those I know and personally, I can attest to the fact that when I was saved, I did not become flawless, sinless and perfect in that instant.

Did you?

quote:

why is it so many who call themselves Christian are not salt and light?


It would depend on the gifts God gives each christian. Some gifts are not as obvious as others. Some christians are not mature. Some may not be christians. Some are under poor teachings.

quote:

She has been attacked several times and has not been judgmental (condemning) of her attackers


Not by me.

quote:

I know that is hard for some to take and understand... but God is a just God and He gives people a lot more rope than we deserve.


quote:

I'm not sure what Bible you are reading...


quote:

and when you get your Bible handy, if you take the time to study the passage you will find that my entire quote says exactly what the Bible means:


quote:

When people try to twist what others on these threads are saying... they are only harming the young in Christ... the new believers who are reading them. If those who are posting are mature in Christ then think of them (the new Christians) before yourselves.


quote:

When people continualy argue and harshly debate with what others on these threads are saying... they are only harming the new believers who are reading them. If some could only think of when they were new in Christ and how confusing some things are... it only stands to reason that they must look at some of these threads and wonder what is different between the world and Christians.


quote:

Again, if you study the Word you will understand.


Possibly taken indivdually these comments would not be insulting but to continually repeat a theme of ignorance when there is only disagreement IS an attack.

I don't believe I have made any statement that is personal. I disagree with some poor doctrine being presented here. I don't believe I have said anything about the intellect or any ability of anyone. The above quoted portions have.

I love debate. I am just not so fond of personal attacks which I normally blow off. I don't believe I have ever tried to defend myself like this before but I had to. If a witness to the unsaved is so important, then maybe a discussion of the topic would be better than discussing the personal attributes of the parties involved.



deliveredarling -> RE: Who will stand? (5/10/2008 8:33:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

Do you really want to be judged the way you judge others?


quote:

Do you really want to be judged the way you judge others?

Really?


Do you remember asking this question? You received several replies.... and have not responded to them. You asked this question at 6:57am CST today.
You responded not to the question you posted but with this:
quote:

If repentance is "built in," then it's like having license to continue living in sin



Completely the opposite. Being saved, you will repent. You can't be saved and live in sin and be content. You would eventually be double minded trying to serve two Masters.

quote:

I've seen too many who profess Christ but have never repented.



This would point to the fact that either they are double minded, headed for doublemindedness or not saved in the first place.

quote:

They continue doing the same, worldy things playing the grace card.



This is impossible to me, for a saved person to do. A saved person will repent. They will be Holy Spirit indwellt, convicted of their sins and repent...like I said, repentence comes from salvation and is a result from being saved. I don't see in any way or sence that this is condoning or promoting a sinful lifestyle. Completely the opposite in fact.

quote:

If they profess to accept Christ but continue living the same like, are they truly saved?



This is a difficult assessment. Not every sin just disappears. Not every sin goes away forever. I don't know about the perfect christians but those I know and personally, I can attest to the fact that when I was saved, I did not become flawless, sinless and perfect in that instant.

Did you?

quote:

why is it so many who call themselves Christian are not salt and light?



It would depend on the gifts God gives each christian. Some gifts are not as obvious as others. Some christians are not mature. Some may not be christians. Some are under poor teachings.

quote:

She has been attacked several times and has not been judgmental (condemning) of her attackers



Not by me.

quote:

I know that is hard for some to take and understand... but God is a just God and He gives people a lot more rope than we deserve.



quote:

I'm not sure what Bible you are reading...



quote:

and when you get your Bible handy, if you take the time to study the passage you will find that my entire quote says exactly what the Bible means:



quote:

When people try to twist what others on these threads are saying... they are only harming the young in Christ... the new believers who are reading them. If those who are posting are mature in Christ then think of them (the new Christians) before yourselves.



quote:

When people continualy argue and harshly debate with what others on these threads are saying... they are only harming the new believers who are reading them. If some could only think of when they were new in Christ and how confusing some things are... it only stands to reason that they must look at some of these threads and wonder what is different between the world and Christians.



quote:

Again, if you study the Word you will understand.



Possibly taken indivdually these comments would not be insulting but to continually repeat a theme of ignorance when there is only disagreement IS an attack.

I don't believe I have made any statement that is personal. I disagree with some poor doctrine being presented here. I don't believe I have said anything about the intellect or any ability of anyone. The above quoted portions have.

I love debate. I am just not so fond of personal attacks which I normally blow off. I don't believe I have ever tried to defend myself like this before but I had to. If a witness to the unsaved is so important, then maybe a discussion of the topic would be better than discussing the personal attributes of the parties involved.


None of these have anything to do with the question you asked. It appears that you are trying to make it look like somebody is attacking you when in fact they are not. Your quotes are taken out of context and misused.
This is very unfair when you ask a question and don't like the responses you receive.



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (5/10/2008 11:37:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

quote:



I think its blwon out of proportion.


quote:



It sounds like...no kidding...but many hurts come from well meaning people who think they are Holy Spirit led when they are just emotionallty led.


quote:



I will add some more here....not everyone thinks a lady should be a pastor.


quote:



Not to sidetrack this thread on this issue, but prophets are not spiritual leaders as pastors are. They hold no spiritual authority as pastors do and the bible is 100% clear...women cannot have spiritual authority over men.


quote:



All of this talk about rebuking and correction and not one mention of the biblical procedure??


quote:



Ya just can't worship your beliefs. That is what the pharesees did.


quote:



Its not me with the cement doctrine.


quote:



I could just as well say this about your stand. It proves nothing other than your use of rhetoric to make points.


quote:



I've been here a long time. This thread neither upsets me or challenges me.

It does amaze me the conclusions some come to, scripturally.

Do you really want to be judged the way you judge others?


quote:



...but to continually repeat a theme of ignorance when there is only disagreement IS an attack.


quote:



I disagree with some poor doctrine being presented here.


[&o]



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (5/10/2008 11:52:11 PM)

So anyway...

quote:

ORIGINAL: zamdad

[quote
I look at the Ted Haggard situation and I can see how he got into the situation. I don't know the who's or what's. But, if he didn't have someone courageous enough to get in his business, he was bound to fall off the merry go round.


This was a sad situation. There are so many such like this... as well as many on tv.

We used to watch several different TV preachers... but we can hardly stand to anymore. Just about everyone "pimps Jesus" (as my husband puts it) for a good 5 or more minutes... selling wares that cost pennies to put together.

But more than that... we see so many falacies being preached... we just turn them off.

Unfortunately, we've seen that from many pulpits not on tv.

sad...



lazareth -> RE: Who will stand? (5/11/2008 12:22:33 AM)

sooooo...
this is what it looks like in here? [8|]

We must discern between indwelling sin, which is the Christian's everyday fight against sin; and the dominion of sin, in which the soul is ruled by darkness.

"Today, our country is being devastated by the wildfires of immorality. Satan, a master arsonist, is causing massive devastation. It destroys homes. It devastates families. And if we aren’t careful, we could become its next victims." Greg Laurie

“Can a man scoop fire into his lap and not be burned?” (Prov. 6:27).

Good job pastor.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Who will stand? (5/11/2008 2:36:22 AM)

quote:

You received several replies.... and have not responded to them.


I am not sure that invalidates my statement.

quote:

It appears that you are trying to make it look like somebody is attacking you when in fact they are not.


Perspective...it all depends if the eyesights are on you, or not.

I'll quote some of the quotes attributed to me as being attacking in nature. The ones I don't comment on, to me are not in any way attacking.

quote:

I will add some more here....not everyone thinks a lady should be a pastor.


I was making a statement of fact. Not everyone on this forum believes women should be pastors. This is not an attack in any way.

quote:

All of this talk about rebuking and correction and not one mention of the biblical procedure??


Like many of my posts they are not directed at any individual, hence no attack.

quote:

Its not me with the cement doctrine.


A perfectly designed response to a challenege of my beliefs in relation to another's.

quote:

I could just as well say this about your stand. It proves nothing other than your use of rhetoric to make points.


Pointing out a poor debate tactic. I forget all the fancy terms that are thrown around here but this is not a personal attack. Rather a criticism of how you debate. That is not the same as calling me ignorant.

quote:

It does amaze me the conclusions some come to, scripturally.

Do you really want to be judged the way you judge others?


I may have crossed the line here. Sometimes I am too open and honest. However I think in context the point was valid.

quote:

I disagree with some poor doctrine being presented here.


If making an assessment that a professed doctrine is a poor one is an attack, then there would cease to be a forums. We would have nothing to discuss.



deliveredarling -> RE: Who will stand? (5/11/2008 7:00:48 AM)

Soninme, the whole point to quoting your post was to bring to attention a diversion tactic you are using. You asked a very judging question and when it was answered you switched into "attack" mode as if we on here are attacking you.......
I specifically did this so that the mods could see that we are not attacking, but responding to said questions before the "attacker" has time to delete the post we are responding too. (No, I'm not saying that you have done this, however it has happened).

The point being is, don't create a bunch of hype with questions for others and then divert to yourself being attacked when the question asked is boldly answered.......please.



zamdad -> RE: Who will stand? (5/11/2008 9:17:53 AM)

quote:

SonInMe1
quote:

quote:

If repentance is "built in," then it's like having license to continue living in sin


Completely the opposite. Being saved, you will repent. You can't be saved and live in sin and be content. You would eventually be double minded trying to serve two Masters.


I can understand how you come to this conclusion. But how do we know if someone is truly saved or double minded? As I said in my previous post, it seems that no one wants to see past the facade. Also, many of those I've worked with in my career attend church, claim to be followers of Christ, yet their private life and their public life don't match. And, if you ask those they associate with, fellowship with, they'll say that the person is a Christian and one of the greatest people they know. Far too many people are struggling. They are living in sin and claiming to serve Christ. Outwardly, they appear content. They are longing for someone to get to know them and help them kill the sin in their life. But, they see the rest of the world operating where they are at and figure it's normal.

Sometimes I get the impression that we hear words bounced around so much that we get preconcieved notions in our minds about them. Repentance is one of those words. I have come to understand it as to change ones ways; to do a 180. I used to think of it in terms of behavior. But, I have come to understand that behavior comes from thinking and that thoughts have to change before behavior does.

quote:

quote:

quote:

They continue doing the same, worldy things playing the grace card.


This is impossible to me, for a saved person to do. A saved person will repent. They will be Holy Spirit indwellt, convicted of their sins and repent...like I said, repentence comes from salvation and is a result from being saved. I don't see in any way or sence that this is condoning or promoting a sinful lifestyle. Completely the opposite in fact.


Again, how do we know? Do you work in a church? The reason I ask is, after a conversation with a former pastor, pastor's tend to be surrounded by other Christians and very rarely get into the trenches in their communities. All of us tend to base what we know on our experience. if you are surrounded by "normal" people all day, everyday, I could see how you would say that it's impossible to live this double minded life. Yet, from my experience with people, it happens all too frequently.

quote:

quote:

quote:

why is it so many who call themselves Christian are not salt and light?


It would depend on the gifts God gives each christian. Some gifts are not as obvious as others. Some christians are not mature. Some may not be christians. Some are under poor teachings.


Is it poor teaching or lack of discipleship? We all have gifts to be used for God. We all have strengths and weknesses. This is why God designed us for relationship with one another. Those with strengths to help build up the weknesses in others and the weaknesses to humble those with strength.. As a body, it seems, we focus so much on teaching, providing head knowledge and have forgotten how to disciple, get knowledge from the head to the heart.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Who will stand? (5/11/2008 9:18:16 AM)

quote:

You asked a very judging question


Incorrect. I asked this...

quote:

Do you really want to be judged the way you judge others?


Lets answer this question scripturally....

Matthew 7

quote:

1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye


Do you really want to be judged the way you judge others? It seems scripturally this would be a flawed ideal.

It was not an attack. It was not a diversion. It was in answer to posts that begged this question about judgement. It was on topic and I thought forthright and not attacking anyone personally.



zamdad -> RE: Who will stand? (5/11/2008 10:38:58 AM)

quote:

Do you really want to be judged the way you judge others? It seems scripturally this would be a flawed ideal.


I got to thinking about this in terms of church discipline. Scripture does tell us that we are to judge within the body. Yet, all too often we don't do this. We overlook sin more than we address it. Is that how we want to be judged?

I think this is why there are so many double minded folks; people trying to serve two masters. We don't take a stand far too frequently. Not just in matter of obvious sin such as addiction or illicit sex. What about our money? Scripture speaks in depth about how we handle our finances. yet, far too many of us want to seperate that part of our lives from our Christianity. And money touches everything we do. Our money says more about our walk with God than anything. And, as I write this I am guilty.



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (5/11/2008 11:39:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

That is not the same as calling me ignorant.


No-one has ever called you ignorant here.

I don't mind debate... but not when it makes me feel as if I need to constantly defend myself personally.

God bless you...
Pastor Debi



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (5/11/2008 12:06:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zamdad

I got to thinking about this in terms of church discipline. Scripture does tell us that we are to judge within the body. Yet, all too often we don't do this. We overlook sin more than we address it. Is that how we want to be judged?

I think this is why there are so many double minded folks; people trying to serve two masters. We don't take a stand far too frequently. Not just in matter of obvious sin such as addiction or illicit sex. What about our money? Scripture speaks in depth about how we handle our finances. yet, far too many of us want to seperate that part of our lives from our Christianity. And money touches everything we do. Our money says more about our walk with God than anything. And, as I write this I am guilty.


Exactly. What about the sin of gossip or backbiting? God talks about these things as well. And anger. God tells us if we have anger in our hearts, it is the same as murder.

I have seen gossip in the church take on a life of it's own. I believe gossip is a root of division in the church.

Blessings...
Pastor Debi



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (5/11/2008 3:37:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

quote:

I will add some more here....not everyone thinks a lady should be a pastor.


I was making a statement of fact. Not everyone on this forum believes women should be pastors. This is not an attack in any way.


I'm sorry. I just have to re-visit this. It has been bothering me all morning. And I am coming at this in regard to the Original Post... so bear with me.

If this was not a personal attack... and you say you were just making a statement of fact, then what was the reason for it?

The original post had nothing to do with women pastors, and your comments from that post had to do with conviction of the Holy Spirit:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

quote:


(from pstrdebi) The Holy Spirit preaches conviction through us.


It can, no doubt. However before you go off and convict someone, make sure its the Holy Spirit. It sounds like...no kidding...but many hurts come from well meaning people who think they are Holy Spirit led when they are just emotionallty led.

I will add not all christians are on the Pastor Warren and the Purpose driven life bandwagon and programs associated with Pastor Warren are often colored with the same brush.

I will add some more here....not everyone thinks a lady should be a pastor.


I see no reason whatsoever, after going through the posts... why this comment had to be made.

Now... here is how I am refering to the original post:

This comment, since it had no real bearing on the original post, if in fact you were just "making a statement of fact," in my opinion lends itself to "stirring up discension."

This is in no way an attack... only a statement of fact and accountability.

love, in Christ... lets move forward.
Pastor Debi



SonInMe1 -> RE: Who will stand? (5/11/2008 7:31:00 PM)

quote:

Scripture does tell us that we are to judge within the body. Yet, all too often we don't do this.


I agree.

quote:

Our money says more about our walk with God than anything. And, as I write this I am guilty.


Preachin' to the choir here.



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (5/12/2008 12:39:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazareth

sooooo...
this is what it looks like in here? [8|]

We must discern between indwelling sin, which is the Christian's everyday fight against sin; and the dominion of sin, in which the soul is ruled by darkness.

"Today, our country is being devastated by the wildfires of immorality. Satan, a master arsonist, is causing massive devastation. It destroys homes. It devastates families. And if we aren’t careful, we could become its next victims." Greg Laurie

“Can a man scoop fire into his lap and not be burned?” (Prov. 6:27).

Good job pastor.


Welcome to the forums Lazareth...

and God bless you!
Pastor Debi



lazareth -> RE: Who will stand? (5/12/2008 2:47:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pstrdebi

Welcome to the forums Lazareth...

and God bless you!
Pastor Debi


Thank you...

and God bless you too. [;)]



growingseed -> RE: Who will stand? (5/15/2008 9:03:31 PM)

The only ones who will stand are those that are rooted in the truth. Have a house built on a foundation of rock. Those that hear his voice, because he knows them and they know him. Buildings are not the church, though some feel that they are. We have been grafted into the branch, with that we will recieve that which is required to stand up. The root is what gives strength to the branch, not the other way around. Christians will bond with the spirit of truth, as we are able to share without pride, but in humility. The darkness is getting darker and we should be shinning brighter.



Godddy -> RE: Who will stand? (5/15/2008 10:12:16 PM)

[:)] Hi Phlebites, its nice to hear from someone who believes, the water down gospel of Jesus is not working.
the power is still in the blood, The Holy Spirit is still on the Job, and Jesus is still sitting on His throne. And He is still the King of kings and Lord of Lord.



StronginGod -> RE: Who will stand? (5/15/2008 10:39:25 PM)

I read this article not so long ago by Dr. Paul Dean called "Confronting False Systems." In it he writes,

"Too many Christians think they will never have an opportunity to confront a false system or even error in the church. More often they feel no sense of obligation in this area though too many such opportunities present themselves these days. Consider the popular singer Derek Webb. He explains that he left Caedmon’s Call for a time because he wanted to speak against the gospel-free message that is so prevalent in the church today. His band members demurred, though they agreed with his position, and he had to go it alone."

I think we have opportunities everyday to Take A Stand... but do we? Probably most don't.



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (5/16/2008 12:27:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: growingseed
The darkness is getting darker and we should be shinning brighter.


This is a great statement... and so true. The following is a comment from another thread in this forum:

quote:


I deliver mail to one such church. It is a presbyterian church here in Denver (many solid Pres. churches here as well, so I'm not slamming that den om.). A beautiful old brick church with such a beautiful cornerstone with a 1911 dedication. I have daydreamed about the founding of it, and i imagine how the first pastor was so on fire to preach the Word and see the lost saved, and how he would weep to see it in apostasy as it is now. Same sex union ceremonies, teaching that God loves everyone just as they are without need of repentance, proudly proclaiming last December how they will no longer have a Christmas celebration but a winter celebration .


This is just a tiny glimpse of the state of the church (again, not the building [8|]) in this day and age. Is there no-one in that congregation that feels like "we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto"... like there is something horribly contradictory in what they are seeing exampled before them and what the Word of God tells us???

[:o]
Pastor Debi



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