RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others)
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 10:05:41 AM
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looneyrd
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Without a doubt! Our freedom in Christ does not give us permission to provoke lust or promote anything that has the appearance of evil.
What I want to make everyone aware of is: Miley has parents. They are responsible for the wrong decision she made. Anyone under legal age has an adult somewhere that is responsible. Right?
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 10:26:16 AM
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Tinkerbell_
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Does anyone remember Glamour Shots? I remember my mum and I went to have our pictures done there when I was 13. Sort of a coming of age thing. We stripped off our tops and they wrapped us in these...thingies...lol...I just remember it was very uncomfortable and the makeup was soooo thick.
The pictures weren't too different than the shots of Miley (has her name leagally changed to that, or is it still Destiny?). While I don't think it was the best idea in the world for her, I don't think she needs to be hung out to dry over them either. *shrug*
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 10:34:49 AM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
Does anyone remember Glamour Shots? I remember my mum and I went to have our pictures done there when I was 13. Sort of a coming of age thing. We stripped off our tops and they wrapped us in these...thingies...lol...I just remember it was very uncomfortable and the makeup was soooo thick.
Well, that's true. I forgot about Glamour Shots. We had one until just a few months ago.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 10:43:20 AM
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broken2live4him
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i agree that as christians we should have God's standards as our own standards. however, let's not forget that she is 15 and still under the supervision of her parents. are you going to blame the 15 year old who did it or the parents who allowed it?
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haggai 2:23
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 11:30:51 AM
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Qtman
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I am bound to ask this question. There are, prior to this post, 55 posts in this thread made by 36 different people if my count was right. Let see a show of hands on how many of the 36 people have actually seen the picture in question. I have seen it and I found it neither appealing, stimulating, nor provocative. It was in fact no worse than someone mentioned the Glamour Shots. I was not to fond of those either. Would I want my daughter to have her photo made like that? No! But that is a personal preference and not something based on whether it is or is not a sin.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 11:35:50 AM
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stellaluna
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I've seen all of them.
I do not care at all for the picture with Miley and her dad. I find the one in the sheet not as offensive as most appear to. I think she looks quite vulnerable in it. I also have sincerely enjoyed Annie Liebowitz's photography over many years and I have respect for her as an artist.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 11:40:11 AM
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Memaw.
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I have seen all of them too.
I have much more problem with the ones with her dad.
Personally, I think the photo is beautiful and is a "timeless" pose.
Saying that, I do have a problem of her being only 15 and this photo circulated.
And the problem isn't with her, it's with her parents.
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 When you go through menopause they don't tell you what you are becoming. I think I'm becoming my Dad.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 11:53:46 AM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
Does anyone remember Glamour Shots? I remember my mum and I went to have our pictures done there when I was 13. Sort of a coming of age thing. We stripped off our tops and they wrapped us in these...thingies...lol...I just remember it was very uncomfortable and the makeup was soooo thick.
Now that you mention it, we did something similar with HS senior pictures - with the blue velvet drape...is that still part of Sr pics? Good point. It is very much a classic, artstic pose from painting and classical sculpture; you're quite right. The makeup was hideous and someone should've known it would be jumped on by people who'd just love to see her crash and burn like her predecessors. But this is all mostly hype.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 11:54:59 AM
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2shaye
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
I have seen all of them too.
I have much more problem with the ones with her dad.
Personally, I think the photo is beautiful and is a "timeless" pose.
Saying that, I do have a problem of her being only 15 and this photo circulated.
And the problem isn't with her, it's with her parents.
me too
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 12:43:41 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The bible speaks of being of modest dress, and it's not a suggestion...
She has talked about this herself many times and she very much makes it a point to be an example of modesty for her young fans. And except for this one weird thing, I think she does a very good job in this area. This was obviously a mistake and the photos became something that they didn't expect them to be and are being portrayed in a way they didn't realize they would be. It's just a lapse in judgement and we're making more of it than it should've been.
A well thought-out mistake... Portrayed in a way they didn't realize they would be? For that to be true the photos would have to have been published without consent...
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 12:48:02 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: looneyrd
Without a doubt! Our freedom in Christ does not give us permission to provoke lust or promote anything that has the appearance of evil.
What I want to make everyone aware of is: Miley has parents. They are responsible for the wrong decision she made. Anyone under legal age has an adult somewhere that is responsible. Right?
They are not completely responsible... Is anyone really going to argue that right and wrong is beyond the grasp of someone who is 15, not to mention a person who claims Christ...
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 12:55:52 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I am bound to ask this question. There are, prior to this post, 55 posts in this thread made by 36 different people if my count was right. Let see a show of hands on how many of the 36 people have actually seen the picture in question. I have seen it and I found it neither appealing, stimulating, nor provocative. It was in fact no worse than someone mentioned the Glamour Shots. I was not to fond of those either. Would I want my daughter to have her photo made like that? No! But that is a personal preference and not something based on whether it is or is not a sin.
I viewed the pictures before posting... I am not sure if the photos I saw reach the level of provocative, but there is a measure of it and it was done for a purpose and it wasn't to glorify God, which leaves only the glorification of self... That is generally sinful... Prideful... God's call to modestly isn't trumped by personal preference and if one can't show that what was done was done so in faith it's unavoidably sinful...
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 1:40:39 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
A well thought-out mistake... Portrayed in a way they didn't realize they would be? For that to be true the photos would have to have been published without consent...
I'm sure there was some kind of agreement up front but seriously doubt they got an opportunity to edit the photos or article before it went in the magazine. That's not how it works. They set up an interview and a photoshoot to go with it. The magazine contracts with a big name photographer who, I'm sure, comes with her own vsion for the spread that'll have her name on it, and when the subject leaves they can only wait and hope that the whole thing comes out well when it goes to print. These weren't publicity photos done by people working for her, it was a piece put together by people working for a magazine - to sell magazines.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 2:20:32 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
A well thought-out mistake... Portrayed in a way they didn't realize they would be? For that to be true the photos would have to have been published without consent...
I'm sure there was some kind of agreement up front but seriously doubt they got an opportunity to edit the photos or article before it went in the magazine. That's not how it works. They set up an interview and a photoshoot to go with it. The magazine contracts with a big name photographer who, I'm sure, comes with her own vsion for the spread that'll have her name on it, and when the subject leaves they can only wait and hope that the whole thing comes out well when it goes to print. These weren't publicity photos done by people working for her, it was a piece put together by people working for a magazine - to sell magazines.
I am not buying it... If the above is true we are talking about some seriously stupid people... Waiting in hope?
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 2:52:41 PM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
A well thought-out mistake... Portrayed in a way they didn't realize they would be? For that to be true the photos would have to have been published without consent...
I'm sure there was some kind of agreement up front but seriously doubt they got an opportunity to edit the photos or article before it went in the magazine. That's not how it works. They set up an interview and a photoshoot to go with it. The magazine contracts with a big name photographer who, I'm sure, comes with her own vsion for the spread that'll have her name on it, and when the subject leaves they can only wait and hope that the whole thing comes out well when it goes to print. These weren't publicity photos done by people working for her, it was a piece put together by people working for a magazine - to sell magazines.
I am not buying it... If the above is true we are talking about some seriously stupid people... Waiting in hope?
John
To say either way we'd have to look at any contract that accompanied the video shoot. She may not have enough star power yet to dictate how exactly her image is used. There are plenty of big-name stars who look plenty dumb after the fact--there is often no guarantee of how your images/video/interview will be used...that is the decision of the media outlet.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 3:21:18 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
To say either way we'd have to look at any contract that accompanied the video shoot. She may not have enough star power yet to dictate how exactly her image is used. There are plenty of big-name stars who look plenty dumb after the fact--there is often no guarantee of how your images/video/interview will be used...that is the decision of the media outlet.
The decisions started long before a picture was taken... If didn't know better I would think she was ambushed by a crazed man with a camera...
As for... there is often no guarantee of how your images/video/interview will be used...that is the decision of the media outlet.
No media outlet forced her to take these pictures.. That is where the control is..
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 4:11:14 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
Just a thought: I am not exactly sure how much pressure would have been applied to force this shoot. After all, she is the center of a billion-dollar enterprise.
Well given she is the center of a billion-dollar enterprise it wasn't because she had to put food on the table...
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 6:14:51 PM
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sjd2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
Just a thought: I am not exactly sure how much pressure would have been applied to force this shoot. After all, she is the center of a billion-dollar enterprise.
Actually, I don't think they forced the shoot at all. Some things to think about:
Vanity Fair's readers would hardly be interested in Hannah Montana.Wrong age group,wrong demographic. They would, however be interested in the daughter of a popular Country and Western singer.
The show/character Hannah Montana can only last 2-3 more years at the outside. Miley Cyrus has to look for a career after Hannah Montana. I am not privy to who approached who first. My bet is that her publicist let the word out that she was looking to make career plans after her Hannah days are over. If they followed traditional magazine practice, she didn't get paid for the interview. Nor did she have to pay for the photos.
If they followed usual practice, Miley and her parents only had control during the interview and the shoot. After everything was finished there's usually no control over content.
Now, for the record, I don't find the photos to be offensive or sinful. I agree with some of the others who said that her makeup wasn't very good. I don't feel that an uncovered back is immodest. Since that was the only part that was visible, I don't find it to be offensive. If you feel that she's too young consider that the age range of fashion models in circulars, catalogs, and ads is between 16 and 25.
Another thing for those who feel that she should apologize for not acting "Christian" enough. The Cyrus family may not consider the photos sinful. YOU may be offended by them, but that's not what counts, is it?
I had a friend who was a Christian and a soap opera actor. As a matter of fact, he met his christian wife on a soap opera. They were committed Christians who were active in the church. They chose not to make a big deal about their Christianity because they didn't want the grief from "Christians" who would be offended that they had or were working on soap operas. It's really a shame that we get attacked from the inside more than the outside.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 6:38:41 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
Vanity Fair's readers would hardly be interested in Hannah Montana.Wrong age group,wrong demographic. They would, however be interested in the daughter of a popular Country and Western singer.
So the daughter was just "eye candy?"
quote:
Now, for the record, I don't find the photos to be offensive or sinful. I agree with some of the others who said that her makeup wasn't very good. I don't feel that an uncovered back is immodest. Since that was the only part that was visible, I don't find it to be offensive.
I guess what is modest or not is in the eye of the beholder... Is there a standard?
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If you feel that she's too young consider that the age range of fashion models in circulars, catalogs, and ads is between 16 and 25.
It's not a matter of age but content... Her age in this case implacates her parents as well...
quote:
Another thing for those who feel that she should apologize for not acting "Christian" enough. The Cyrus family may not consider the photos sinful. YOU may be offended by them, but that's not what counts, is it?
So if the Cyrus family considers nakes pictures ok that's all that counts? What is right and just slides up and down the scale from family to family
quote:
I had a friend who was a Christian and a soap opera actor. As a matter of fact, he met his christian wife on a soap opera. They were committed Christians who were active in the church. They chose not to make a big deal about their Christianity because they didn't want the grief from "Christians" who would be offended that they had or were working on soap operas. It's really a shame that we get attacked from the inside more than the outside.
Maybe they were ashamed of what they were doing...
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 7:14:11 PM
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sjd2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
So the daughter was just "eye candy?"
John, It's a matter of who the magazine is aimed at. Vanity Fair is NOT for teeny boppers. The story of a star whose child (son or daughter) also becomes a star is the story.
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I guess what is modest or not is in the eye of the beholder... Is there a standard?
Maybe not in the way that you'd like to see a standard. Do you consider a bare back immodest?
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It's not a matter of age but content... Her age in this case implacates her parents as well...
Perhaps you haven't seen a Kohls ad lately. Would you consider a swimsuit ad bad content? I'm really not trying to sarcastic. Mylie is less exposed than some swimsuit models.
quote:
So if the Cyrus family considers nakes pictures ok that's all that counts? What is right and just slides up and down the scale from family to family
Hint: She's not nakes She not even naked.
Are you the arbiter of what is sinful? There seem to be other people on this thread that feel that the photos were not sinful. I happen to believe that those decisions are between God and the Cyrus family.
quote:
Maybe they were ashamed of what they were doing...
Doubtful. everyone in our church knew what they did. They just didn't go on Oprah to announce that they were Christians. There are many Christians in the performing arts that don't make a big public profession of Christ. Mostly because of the hassle that they get from well meaning "Christians "who feel the need to "help" them see their sins and explain how they should make atonement to God (and their) offended sensibilities of what's moral, modest, or acceptable instead of letting the Holy Spirit do His work in their lives and convict them of sins.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 7:27:16 PM
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LCannon
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...as though 'regular' Christians can be content to show less then high standards? People, entertainers or regular, will do what they will but just because I don't broadcast my digressions doesn't means I'm any less guilty or responsible.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/1/2008 9:30:44 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
John, It's a matter of who the magazine is aimed at. Vanity Fair is NOT for teeny boppers. The story of a star whose child (son or daughter) also becomes a star is the story.
So what's the point of having suggestive photos a 15 year girl?
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Maybe not in the way that you'd like to see a standard.
Ok... So your answer is, No...
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Do you consider a bare back immodest?
If you think that's all that picture is about be my guest...
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Perhaps you haven't seen a Kohls ad lately. Would you consider a swimsuit ad bad content? I'm really not trying to sarcastic. Mylie is less exposed than some swimsuit models.
Why stop there? Since we are dealing on sliding scale just mention any skin mag... Anything goes, right?
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Are you the arbiter of what is sinful?
No more or less than you are...
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There seem to be other people on this thread that feel that the photos were not sinful.
Some on this forum believe murder is ok and that a Christian can have an active gay lifesytle so this is pretty mild...
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I happen to believe that those decisions are between God and the Cyrus family.
I happen to think the body of Christ as a stake in this as well...
John
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I agree, she *should* have said no, and she *could* have said no, even at 15. But her parents IMO are culpable for just standing there and letting it happen without exercising their right and responsibility to protect their daughter. 
I have a strange feeling she's ultimately not going to enjoy being a hot body as much as hormone-crazed teens and perverted old men are going to enjoy drooling over her. 
