RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others)
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/3/2008 11:03:31 PM
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gaylel1
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quote:
First, if I had a 15 year old daughter, I would have no problem with her posing like that.
Why would you not have a problem with her posing semi-nude? You see, this is typical of parents these days because they say, no problem, but that no problem brings consequences. It would not
quote:
I work in a High School. What some of these girls wear to the school makes Miley look like a nun. So, I don't think that many will see Miley's photos as permission to do much of anything.
Yes, and the reason being that most of these girls do not have a value system, let alone parents let them do what they want in the name of "freedom". It is ok to dress stylish, but as a Christian young woman especially who represent Christ, young women should be dressing modestly.
quote:
As I have said before. Miley can't be Hannah Montana forever. At some point she has to make a break and change her career path. I suspect that a lot of the comments coming from Disney have the same validity of the famous Claude Rains line from Casablanca "I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling going on here". IOW, I suspect that everyone involved knew that the photos would be edgy. Annie Liebowitz is well known in photography and publishing circles for doing unique work that is "out there".
But for Miley, she calls herself a believer, right? if someone say they are a Christian and are in the entertaiment industry, they need to impact their generation and take a stand and turn away from this kind of thing. Every young woman who want to further their career wants to be in Playboy and now the mainstream magazines. I don't think this is the way to do it, because it exploits people it sends a dangerous message to young people making it in the entertaiment industry.
quote:
I don't however, see her going down the same path as Britney.Unlike Britney, her family is already involved in the music industry and is already used to the money and fame that it brings. Britney on the other hand, did not come from a show biz family therefore, neither her not her family wre ready for the shock of being a star.
I hope and pray she does not neither, but I hope she and her family are accountable to a pastor, are members of a local church body and getting some wise counsel from believers in the lord. These people are weak in an area, which is being tempted and they were tempted. Hopefully they won't do it again.
quote:
Finally, I really don't believe that she has committed a sin. I realize that some of you are scandalized by what she has done and really don't agree with me. That is fine. IMHO, what she is guilty of is shocking the sensibilities of some of her fans and I'm not so sure that is a sin. I also realize that some of you feel that the pose is sensual or has sexual overtones. Whatever the original intent of the photographer was we really don't know. No one has quoted the photographer as saying that her message was to sexualize a 15 year old girl. So, as a result the best that we can do is guess at her intentions. For those of you who say that "all you need to do is look at the photo and you'll see her intention." I heartily disagree. When someone looks at an image they look at the image through the filter of their own experiences, prejudices, and views. What you see may NOT be what the artist/photographer wanted to communicate. Actually, I have seen that almost identical pose in several different works dating back several hundred years. It is considered a classic pose.
The bible says that we are to avoid certian things and this includes the apperance of evil. This incident may have been a black mark in her walk with the Lord, but hopefully she will learn from it and her parents will make better choices in her career.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/3/2008 11:07:26 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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we get black marks in our walks with the Lord?
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/3/2008 11:45:14 PM
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gaylel1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
we get black marks in our walks with the Lord?
What I was trying to say that this action hurt her walk with the Lord, but hopefully with repentance, she will learn from it.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 8:13:01 AM
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sjd2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gaylel1
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
we get black marks in our walks with the Lord?
What I was trying to say that this action hurt her walk with the Lord, but hopefully with repentance, she will learn from it.
Gayle-
You really don't know:
She really IS a Christian
If she is,that this has hurt her walk with the Lord.
Unless you can climb into her head and read her thoughts you are making an outside judgment. I have learned after many years of being a Christian that the Lord uses circumstances in ways that we don't understand. You simply don't know how God is working. You are basing your statements on your view of the photos. Yes, we can only look at the exterior, and God knows the interior.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 8:24:02 AM
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zoebob
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I think part of the issue for me is that she isn't dressed on top. She's naked and holding a bedsheet to cover the top of her. So, she is semi nude but attempting to cover. There's a difference between that and dressed in a skimpy top.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 8:26:40 AM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
I think part of the issue for me is that she isn't dressed on top. She's naked and holding a bedsheet to cover the top of her. So, she is semi nude but attempting to cover. There's a difference between that and dressed in a skimpy top.
I wish you would explain the difference. She has as much covered the way she is as she would in a skimpy top. Even as much as she would in an evening gown. Does it really matter if it is help up, wrapped around or buttoned?
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 9:33:56 AM
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sjd2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
I think part of the issue for me is that she isn't dressed on top. She's naked and holding a bedsheet to cover the top of her. So, she is semi nude but attempting to cover. There's a difference between that and dressed in a skimpy top.
I wish you would explain the difference. She has as much covered the way she is as she would in a skimpy top. Even as much as she would in an evening gown. Does it really matter if it is help up, wrapped around or buttoned?
Sam-
Nude is usually totally uncovered without any clothing or covering. Semi-nude has some covering. usually covering the breasts and other genitalia. Semi-nude can also include top of the breasts exposed. I'm trying very hard not to be too descriptive for fear of a TOS violation. 
As you have noted, dressing modestly is s cultural thing. IMHO, modesty is more of a mindset than anything else. I have seen totally clothed women who were very immodest and women who were not as covered who were more modest..
I hope that this helps. there are photo modeling sites that give clear definitions for reasons of pay. Nude models get paid more than semi-nude (usually called lingerie) and fully clothed get paid the least of all.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 11:06:23 AM
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Memaw.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
With regards to the photo of Miley Cyrus I keep hearing terms like "nude" "semi-nude" and "dressing modestly". Now I am not uneducated but would someone please give me the end all definition for those terms. I don't mean your opinion of what they mean I want a definitive answer.
I understand "nude" It means you ain't got clothes on. 
But exactly what is "semi-nude"? That indicated that you are partially uncovered. Therefore, if you are walking around with any skin showing you are semi-nude. How many of you have not worn a swim suit, a strapless evening gown etc. You were semi-nude. For shame.
As far as dressing modestly that is a cultural thing. We do not know what modestly is. Yes Paul wrote we should dress modestly but even he did not define modestly. For some if you wear make-up and jewelry you are not dressed modestly. For others if you have any skin showing other than on your hands or around your eyes you are not dressed modestly.
In other words everyone on here is looking at the photo through their own perspective with nothing definitive to go on. It is merely our opinion.
As far as the statement that she should repent is concerned, repentance is only necessary where sin has occurred. Although some on here or of the opinion she has sinned that too is just opinion. Just because you think she has sinned does not necessarily mean she has.
I see more skin every day on young girls walking down the street I live on. Miley was "in my opinion" fully covered. At least what I would consider the parts necessary were covered.
Its about time we quit condemning this child and look at our own lives. I am constantly reminded of Jesus saying "you that are without sin cast the first stone.
Until someone can give me some definitions that make sense I will continue to defend this child.
Sam,
I wish I could give you stars, but since I can't, I will give you the next best thing.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 11:29:25 AM
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sjd2008
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quote:
Why would you not have a problem with her posing semi-nude? You see, this is typical of parents these days because they say, no problem, but that no problem brings consequences. It would not
I should qualify that statement. It would very much depend on the maturity level of the child. However, as I said before, I do not believe that the pose is sineful. Therefore, I have no problem with the pose. I realize that you don't agree.
quote:
Yes, and the reason being that most of these girls do not have a value system, let alone parents let them do what they want in the name of "freedom". It is ok to dress stylish, but as a Christian young woman especially who represent Christ, young women should be dressing modestly.
Please define modesty. As Sam has noted this word has been thrown around quite a bit. I have seen no one attempt to define it.
quote:
But for Miley, she calls herself a believer, right? if someone say they are a Christian and are in the entertaiment industry, they need to impact their generation and take a stand and turn away from this kind of thing. Every young woman who want to further their career wants to be in Playboy and now the mainstream magazines. I don't think this is the way to do it, because it exploits people it sends a dangerous message to young people making it in the entertaiment industry.
Miley has no more (or less) responsibilty to impact her generation than any other Christian. She is just like any other Christian. As Christians, we should all be aware of our walk and its impact on those who see us.
quote:
The bible says that we are to avoid certian things and this includes the apperance of evil. This incident may have been a black mark in her walk with the Lord, but hopefully she will learn from it and her parents will make better choices in her career.
Some people on this board have avatars of secular actors and entertainers who are distinctly not Christian. Some of those secular entertainers are drug addicts, convicted felons, and do not represent Christ. Should the moderators restrict those avatars on the basis that they create an appearance of the endorsement of a secular actor or entertainer?
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 12:25:08 PM
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gaylel1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
quote:
ORIGINAL: gaylel1
quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
we get black marks in our walks with the Lord?
What I was trying to say that this action hurt her walk with the Lord, but hopefully with repentance, she will learn from it.
Gayle-
You really don't know:
She really IS a Christian
If she is,that this has hurt her walk with the Lord.
Unless you can climb into her head and read her thoughts you are making an outside judgment. I have learned after many years of being a Christian that the Lord uses circumstances in ways that we don't understand. You simply don't know how God is working. You are basing your statements on your view of the photos. Yes, we can only look at the exterior, and God knows the interior.
If Miley is a believer which she confesses she is, she should have not be going out doing these type of things the world dishes out on her. She was lured because she thought that being partially nude will further her career.
Apperantly she does not have a strong parental base and if her parents were strong believers, she would have not done what she done. I'm sorry, but this is my opinion.
She was tempted by the world because she wanted to do what the "world" wants her to do. I know you and others are defending her choice, but like I said before, choices bring consequences and this young woman is at the age of accountablity.
Qman,
You are saying that we need to stop condeming this child--but we as Christians we need to speak out about things like this and take a stand. There are too many people who are "weak believers" who say they are a Christian, put on an act on Sunday and the other 6 days, they are going to hell.
I'm not saying that this young woman is headed that way nor her parents and hopefully she did repent of what she did because this kind of thing does disapoints God and hurts his heart when one of his children disobeys--and we as Christians are to turn away from sin, even temptation from the entertaiment industry these people work in.
It is unpopular when people take a stand from it, they may lose fans or endorsements, but guess what--I rather lose it all as an entertainer than my salvation. This is why Hollywood has support groups and prayer groups because Christians in Hollywood need prayers to substain their walk with the Lord because it is hard in the entertaiment industry to become a Christian and be tempted in the world.
Secondly, I disagree with many of you that Miley should not impact her generation, because she should. She is infuencing every child in America by watching her program, being like her and vice versa. She can redeem herself by influencing her generation by being a more good, godly example for young people in the entertaiment industry.
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Remembering Topher...
Visit me at http:www.gayleplace.blogspot.com or http://www.myspace.com/gaylel121
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 2:03:22 PM
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stampinlady
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quote:
She was lured because she thought that being partially nude will further her career.
Maybe and maybe she's transitioning out of the kiddie scene and into an older group? I'm still on the fence as to whether or not this photo is innapropriate. My first thought was how pretty she looked decspite her bones showing. I think Art can be a very confusing area for believers. I remember a friend of mine in third of fourth grade had a painting of a nude woman in her living room. I thought it was weird.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 3:04:37 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
Please define modesty. As Sam has noted this word has been thrown around quite a bit. I have seen no one attempt to define it.
What's the point of defining it when no matter what anyone says it will be a matter opinion.... Even Paul's mention of modestly is subject to cultural habits or what people view walking down their street.
Of course the pictures from Vanity Fair aren't the only ones to consider... I was searching the web for any comments from the family about the Vanity Fair pictures and came across more pictures....
There are pictures of her playing like she is kissing another girl and such, as well as ones her posing in her underwear, pullling her top down to expose her bra, and pics of her laying over a boy with her shirt pulled up...
What's really funny... On this web site they post the following quote from Miley Cyrus...
Are we Christians? Yes. We love Jesus…He died for our sins that’s how awesome he is…Now that I think about it, I do everything for Jesus.
I found quotes regarding the Vanity Fair pics...
"I took part in a photo shoot that was supposed to be 'artistic' and now, seeing the photographs and reading the story, I feel so embarrassed," the "Hannah Montana" star told E! in a statement.
Heh... I like this one...
The Disney Channel also released a statement saying "a situation was created to deliberately manipulate a 15-year-old in order to sell magazines."
Some more quotes...
Photog says she discussed picture with singer
Leibovitz, whose well-known photos include a Vanity Fair cover of a naked and pregnant Demi Moore, says she consulted with Cyrus before the blanket shot.
"We discussed the picture in that context before we shot it. The photograph is a simple, classic portrait, shot with very little makeup, and I think it is very beautiful," said Leibovitz in a comment released through Vanity Fair.
The young singer's remarks are in stark contrast to a caption released by Vanity Fair with the photo in which the teen star expressed her comfort the photo in question:
"I think it's really artsy. It wasn't in a skanky way.... I thought that was really cool."
The Disney Channel also released its own statement that "a situation was created to deliberately manipulate a 15-year-old in order to sell magazines."
Vanity Fair has told celebrity TV show Entertainment Tonight that it stands behind the photos.
"Miley's parents and/or minders were on the set all day. Since the photo was taken digitally, they saw it on the shoot and everyone thought it was a beautiful and natural portrait of Miley."
More....
The singer and actress has made a name for herself as a clean-living performer who often talks about her Christian faith.
"I have let myself down. I will learn from my mistakes.… My family and my faith will guide me through my life's journey," said the 15-year-old sensation in a statement released to People magazine late Sunday.
Cyrus, the daughter of country star Billy Ray Cyrus, goes on to thank her fans and hopes they will "understand that along the way I am going to make mistakes and I am not perfect."
Only a couple of a weeks ago, photos surfaced on the internet showing the star lying across a boy's lap and flashing her green bra in a provocative way. Now, the stakes are raised with a Vanity Fair shoot in which Cyrus appears topless, wrapped in what looks to be a satin bedsheet, looking over her shoulder with her back exposed.
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 3:31:47 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
Miley has no more (or less) responsibilty to impact her generation than any other Christian. She is just like any other Christian. As Christians, we should all be aware of our walk and its impact on those who see us.
She has been blessed with fame and wealth and invokes the name of Jesus Christ... She has been given more, so more is required...
Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 3:32:05 PM
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sjd2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
What's the point of defining it when no matter what anyone says it will be a matter opinion.... Even Paul's mention of modestly is subject to cultural habits or what people view walking down their street.
John
So, in other words, you can't/won't define it. Then how can you criticize or even comment on a lack of modesty if you don't have a definition? Seems to me that you're saying that you know immodesty when you see it.
John would you also please list the links where you got the quotes and links from. I won't react to something unless I see the quote in context of the rest of the article.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 3:37:14 PM
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sjd2008
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quote:
Secondly, I disagree with many of you that Miley should not impact her generation, because she should. She is infuencing every child in America by watching her program, being like her and vice versa. She can redeem herself by influencing her generation by being a more good, godly example for young people in the entertaiment industry .
I never said that she SHOULDN'T impact her generation I said that she has the SAME responsibility as all other Christians. Celebrities are humans, they will make mistakes. Too bad Christian celebrities don't get a break from Christians.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 3:38:11 PM
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gaylel1
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I found this article in the Christian post (http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080501/32199_Miley_Cyrus_Phot0_Flap_Calls_For_Action_Against_Harmful_Media_Messages.htm) rather interesting. The ministry, Free For Life Ministries says that Miley's photos are nothing less that "Child Pedopilia", meaning that Miley was explotied by the magazine in question, Vanity Fair.
Then the web site goes on to say that the Cyrus' parents exhibited a "lack of leadership" and judgement, which I agree wholeheartly with.
The entire article included a quote by Dr. Bill Maier, who said that "Where do teens go for moral guidance, where do they find their role models? They go to the media."
Just to clarify, the lack of judgement quote was also from Dr. Maier.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 3:51:06 PM
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gaylel1
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If Christian celebrites get a break from Christians, we as believers should stop making excuses for them and call it what it is--sin. Not only Christian celebrites, but those who are not celebrites and have that 15 minutes of fame. Christian celebrites and non-christian celebrites, like ourselves need to be called on the carpet to let them know what they are doing is hampering their walk with the Lord.
I'ts not because you are judging people, but you doing it out of love and concern and want to see them have a life which is honoring God.
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 3:58:42 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sjd2008
So, in other words, you can't/won't define it.
No... It's pointless to try and here is why... There are quotes from this thread on that very subject...
We do not know what modestly is.
In other words everyone on here is looking at the photo through their own perspective with nothing definitive to go on. It is merely our opinion.
It's your right to see that photo however you want.
When someone looks at an image they look at the image through the filter of their own experiences, prejudices, and views. What you see may NOT be what the artist/photographer wanted to communicate.
We all have different views on what constitutes sensual material and what doesn't
That's also why it is difficult to make a standard as to what's acceptable and what's not
I don't disagree with your premise. I just don't agree with your opinion about the photos.
quote:
Then how can you criticize or even comment on a lack of modesty if you don't have a definition? Seems to me that you're saying that you know immodesty when you see it.
If I post MY definition it will be called just that, MY definition and I will get told that I am looking at things filter of their own experiences, prejudices, and view... Right?
Of course since I have do take issue with the Vanity Fair pictures I have given you a direct and visual idea what I believe modest is or isn't, right?
Further, you can't argue everyone can define modesty as they see fit and also demand a definition... Your argument is centered on everyone seeing what they see, so a definition of modesty is define by how we see it according to you. Which means if she posed topless and one didn’t feel that being topless is an issue and for some it’s not, she would still be acting in a modest fashion…
quote:
John would you also please list the links where you got the quotes and links from. I won't react to something unless I see the quote in context of the rest of the article.
By all means, though I know it won't matter... It's all about opinion and perspective... There is no standard because everyone defines their own standard...
Links to follow...
John
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RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Stand... - 5/4/2008 4:22:20 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-miley-cyrus-vanity-fair-photos-080428-ht,1,7939179.story
It seems Miley Cyrus and the camera are not getting along too well right now.
On the heels of a minor scandal bubbling up over less-than-wholesome photos leaked online comes an apology from the superstar tween—but the mea culpa was for photos taken for a future issue of Vanity Fair magazine.
The pics in question make Cyrus look like she isn't wearing a top, according to E! News.
"I took part in a photo shoot that was supposed to be 'artistic' and now, seeing the photographs and reading the story, I feel so embarrassed," the "Hannah Montana" star told E! in a statement
The Disney Channel also released a statement saying "a situation was created to deliberately manipulate a 15-year-old in order to sell magazines."
http://www.cbc.ca/arts/media/story/2008/04/28/cyrus-photos-vanityfair.html?ref=rss
Photographer Annie Leibovitz says she's sorry her photos of teen idol Miley Cyrus, star of Disney's Hannah Montana TV series, have been 'misinterpreted.'
Leibovitz's remarks come in light of a public apology issued late Sunday by the 15-year-old performer saying she is "embarrassed" by two sets of sexy photos, including ones taken by Leibovitz for Vanity Fair magazine.
Teen star Miley Cyrus apologized to her fans for this and other photos from her Vanity Fair shoot, which famed photographer Annie Leibovitz defended as 'beautiful.' (Annie Leibovitz, exclusively for Vanity Fair)
The singer and actress has made a name for herself as a clean-living performer who often talks about her Christian faith.
"I have let myself down. I will learn from my mistakes.… My family and my faith will guide me through my life's journey," said the 15-year-old sensation in a statement released to People magazine late Sunday.
Cyrus, the daughter of country star Billy Ray Cyrus, goes on to thank her fans and hopes they will "understand that along the way I am going to make mistakes and I am not perfect."
Only a couple of a weeks ago, photos surfaced on the internet showing the star lying across a boy's lap and flashing her green bra in a provocative way. Now, the stakes are raised with a Vanity Fair shoot in which Cyrus appears topless, wrapped in what looks to be a satin bedsheet, looking over her shoulder with her back exposed.
The Leibovitz photos are due out in the June issue of the magazine.
"I was so honoured and thrilled to work with Annie," said Cyrus, whose show is ranked No. 1 in the U.S. among six to 14-year-olds.
"I took part in a photo shoot that was supposed to be 'artistic' and now, seeing the photographs and reading the story, I feel so embarrassed."
Photog says she discussed picture with singer
Leibovitz, whose well-known photos include a Vanity Fair cover of a naked and pregnant Demi Moore, says she consulted with Cyrus before the blanket shot.
"We discussed the picture in that context before we shot it. The photograph is a simple, classic portrait, shot with very little makeup, and I think it is very beautiful," said Leibovitz in a comment released through Vanity Fair.
The young singer's remarks are in stark contrast to a caption released by Vanity Fair with the photo in which the teen star expressed her comfort the photo in question:
"I think it's really artsy. It wasn't in a skanky way.... I thought that was really cool."
The Disney Channel also released its own statement that "a situation was created to deliberately manipulate a 15-year-old in order to sell magazines."
Vanity Fair has told celebrity TV show Entertainment Tonight that it stands behind the photos.
"Miley's parents and/or minders were on the set all day. Since the photo was taken digitally, they saw it on the shoot and everyone thought it was a beautiful and natural portrait of Miley."
Leibovitz has spent her career photographing celebrities. One of her famous shots is of a naked John Lennon wrapped around a clothed Yoko Ono, taken the day he was shot and killed.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/la-et-mileycyrus22apr22,0,7114761.story
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=26070
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/29/miley-cyrus-vanity-fair-p_n_99167.html
Kinda funny...
John
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