RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (Full Version)

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OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/3/2008 11:45:01 PM)

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I can tell Konstantinos, you probably have never been insulted for your appearance. I have, many a time, and it HURTS.


well if you can tell then i guess there is nothing for me to say.



Ok, sorry, I shouldn't have made an assumption.



Konstantinos -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/3/2008 11:58:44 PM)

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I also don't appreciate the fact, that just because I said I had been insulted, you automatically assumed they used the "U" word. Although they did, but I don't appreciate you making that assumption.


the "U" word? seriously?

but i was just using as an example. in the end everything is either attractive or unattractive. use whatever word you want for it if you wanna play with words [sm=aside.gif]

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I may honestly say that he does deserve the death penalty, but that is not an insult,


so telling someone they should die because the law says it is not an insult, but telling someone your honest opinion thats based mostly on genetics about if you think they are attractive is an insult?

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We ALL have a basic sin nature, but as new creatures in Christ, our attitudes change.


ok... but that has nothing to do with what you find attractive. do you find every guy attractive now because you are a christian? im not getting what this has to do with the subject right now.

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Also, my self esteem is not based on other people, it is based on Christ, but that does NOT mean that I don't have feelings,


ok that made no sense. whether you are insulted about YOUR looks has to do with SELF esteem. yes being hurt is a feeling but in this particular case it has to do with your self esteem. if someone told you that kids in china are basically slaves you'd be hurt about that too but it has nothing to do with your self esteem.

so ive no idea where you are getting at that we have feelings...

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people who go around wasting their time insulting people have too much time on their hands.


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and its not like i go around telling everyone i see on the street how pretty they are


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If someone asks someone an opinion of someone, then, ya, take your lumps, but that still gives no one a right to give an unasked for, unkind, negative opinion.


yes that could be rude, if the intention of the one who gave his negative opinion was to hurt the other person intentionally. i dont, i just want to be honest, and i rarely ever tell people, especially those i barely know what i think about them. but if i feel like telling them for some reason, i'll probably tell them the truth even if they dont ask for it.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/4/2008 12:38:02 AM)

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I may honestly say that he does deserve the death penalty, but that is not an insult,


so telling someone they should die because the law says it is not an insult, but telling someone your honest opinion thats based mostly on genetics about if you think they are attractive is an insult?


Yes, because one is a consequence for sin, the other is just plain rudeness.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/4/2008 12:41:53 AM)

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We ALL have a basic sin nature, but as new creatures in Christ, our attitudes change.


ok... but that has nothing to do with what you find attractive. do you find every guy attractive now because you are a christian? im not getting what this has to do with the subject right now.



My point was, that as new creatures in Christ, we should know that we are to treat one another kindly. And I can't compare the difference in what I found attractive in guys before/after christianity, because I have known the Lord since long before I saw boys as anything but playmates. And yes, being in Christ DOES make a difference to me, because I know God made us all.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/4/2008 12:43:57 AM)

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Also, my self esteem is not based on other people, it is based on Christ, but that does NOT mean that I don't have feelings,


ok that made no sense. whether you are insulted about YOUR looks has to do with SELF esteem. yes being hurt is a feeling but in this particular case it has to do with your self esteem. if someone told you that kids in china are basically slaves you'd be hurt about that too but it has nothing to do with your self esteem.

so ive no idea where you are getting at that we have feelings...


If I stub my toe, it hurts, if someone is unkind, it hurts. It's natural.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/4/2008 12:47:31 AM)

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but if i feel like telling them for some reason, i'll probably tell them the truth even if they dont ask for it.

_____________________________



Then you are completely disregarding God's commands about being kind to one another, considering another better than yourself, doing unto the least of these is doing unto Him, and also His command on dwelling only on what is good and pure.

Any sin we commit against our brother is a sin against God, and rudeness is a sin. If it's an opinion that can help them (you have broccoli on your teeth, your slip is showing, etc.), that's one thing, an opinion such as "Your nose is too big," is a completely different story.


And I am by NO MEANS saying that it is wrong for a guy to want to physically attracted to his wife/girlfriend, after all, a woman whose man finds her attractive is happier than one whose man doesn't, but even then he can go after that one woman that he finds most attractive, and still keep his mouth shut about other people.



Calea37 -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/4/2008 8:01:28 AM)

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ORIGINAL: Konstantinos



so you prefer it if people arent honest with you?




You can speak the truth in love without being mean; I really think that is the whole point. I have never been called ugly. Either that is because I'm not ugly or I've never run into anyone mean enough to come right out and say it... lol Seriously though, I know I'm not ugly but it would still hurt my feelings if someone said I was and it would really serve no purpose. kwim?



Konstantinos -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/4/2008 12:35:29 PM)

see the difference is that i "judge" intentions, not actions.

lots of people have told me lots of things that were true about myself that would normally hurt me. why should i be mad at them for telling me the truth?

maybe i would if their intention was simply to hurt me, but even then probably not, at least if its someone thats not really close to me. but 99% most likely i wouldnt like the person as much if that was their intention.


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And I am by NO MEANS saying that it is wrong for a guy to want to physically attracted to his wife/girlfriend, after all, a woman whose man finds her attractive is happier than one whose man doesn't, but even then he can go after that one woman that he finds most attractive, and still keep his mouth shut about other people.


actually i never said that you thought that was wrong, i was saying that to point out that thats all the opinion i care about considering my looks. the rest i ignore. i dont dress to get girls, instead i dress as i see most comfortable, i dont do things to get girls, instead im getting heavier.

ask most guys and i bet over 99% of them will care more for their looks than i do. the whole point of it is to not get sad just cause someone doesnt find me attractive. its looks, they dont matter all that much

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If I stub my toe, it hurts, if someone is unkind, it hurts. It's natural.


i guess this is the whole point.

its up to us how much we'll let that pain affect us though.

its also up to us how much we'll hurt in the first place. when we were kids a slap from our parents hurt a lot more than it does now. now its more like a mosquitoe bite

its the same with emotional pain. i remember that i got the most pain when i was a kid from someone that insulted me in some way.. but as a kid i also got over it quick but thats kinda irrelevant



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/4/2008 7:00:43 PM)

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And I am by NO MEANS saying that it is wrong for a guy to want to physically attracted to his wife/girlfriend, after all, a woman whose man finds her attractive is happier than one whose man doesn't, but even then he can go after that one woman that he finds most attractive, and still keep his mouth shut about other people.


actually i never said that you thought that was wrong, i was saying that to point out that thats all the opinion i care about considering my looks. the rest i ignore. i dont dress to get girls, instead i dress as i see most comfortable, i dont do things to get girls, instead im getting heavier.



I made that statement as my own disclaimer, NOT in reference to anything you said.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/4/2008 7:02:04 PM)

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ask most guys and i bet over 99% of them will care more for their looks than i do.



I don't understand that sentence..just in a grammatical sense, I mean. I don't understand what it is saying.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/4/2008 7:05:58 PM)

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If I stub my toe, it hurts, if someone is unkind, it hurts. It's natural.


i guess this is the whole point.

its up to us how much we'll let that pain affect us though.

its also up to us how much we'll hurt in the first place. when we were kids a slap from our parents hurt a lot more than it does now. now its more like a mosquitoe bite

its the same with emotional pain. i remember that i got the most pain when i was a kid from someone that insulted me in some way.. but as a kid i also got over it quick but thats kinda irrelevant

_________




If words did not affect people, God wouldn't have given us so many commandments regarding them. I also think you have twisted this thread from the original topic. The OP was asking what is and isn't acceptable speech. You have twisted it into what a person should be able to take in, and that is really a different thread. Yes, we should be longsuffering, as was Christ, but that doesn't make certain sins right. For example, Christ bore it patiently when Peter denied Him 3 times, but that didn't make what Peter did right, AT ALL.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/4/2008 7:09:46 PM)

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If I stub my toe, it hurts, if someone is unkind, it hurts. It's natural.


i guess this is the whole point.

its up to us how much we'll let that pain affect us though.

its also up to us how much we'll hurt in the first place. when we were kids a slap from our parents hurt a lot more than it does now. now its more like a mosquitoe bite

its the same with emotional pain. i remember that i got the most pain when i was a kid from someone that insulted me in some way.. but as a kid i also got over it quick but thats kinda irrelevant



It also has to do with the way we are wired. For example, I am more sensitive to certain medications, and to the sun then other people. Some people are resilient towards the speech of others, some are not. It doesn't make one group of people better or worse than the other, it's just one of the ways people are different. Again, I repeat, Eph. 4:32a Be ye KIND one to another. And I'm sorry, no matter which way you slice it, insults are not kind.



Calea37 -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 7:53:38 AM)

I think girls (and women) are more sensitive to this sort of thing. Generally speaking, maybe boys (and men) have a little bit easier time brushing off what someone said? (just my opinion)

Also, I think when we are younger, girls are more likely to resort to "mental" meanness to each other...like name calling and being critical about looks...Boys are more likely to get into a fight, hit each other a couple of times and then somehow get over it...[&:] Girls hang on to things more. That has been my experience, anyway.

Konstantinos, I have been overweight before too and I do have to say that if you took a woman who is say, twenty pounds overweight and a man who is twenty over, the woman is more likely to be treated badly because of it (of course that isn't your fault!)... For some reason our society accepts overweight men more than overweight woman; just look at sitcoms...You'll have some pretty woman and the "husband" can be huge and no one cares. He's funny; he's a "teddy bear."

So maybe that is why you could ask this same question "Is discussing looks wrong?" and get some REALLY different responses. We all come at it from our own point of view and past experiences.

So I envy your ability to not let things bother you, but many people haven't become that confident in themselves, so perhaps the same words would hurt them more than they would you because you could let it go.



Konstantinos -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 11:48:48 AM)

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Also, I think when we are younger, girls are more likely to resort to "mental" meanness to each other...like name calling and being critical about looks...Boys are more likely to get into a fight, hit each other a couple of times and then somehow get over it... Girls hang on to things more. That has been my experience, anyway.


true haha. and its so cute that women dont understand that about boys. i hated fights when i was young too. it was funny that it got me more bonded, specially with my brotehr. i didnt really understand it then. now i do. and usually its a fight for the sake of fighting.

and yes i know that women have it harder. but like i said i too did care. i did get hurt. it wasnt simply cause i got older that im over it. cause i really am over it. i simply changed the way i view my appearance and the world itself. its harder for girls but my point is its possible.

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Konstantinos, I have been overweight before too and I do have to say that if you took a woman who is say, twenty pounds overweight and a man who is twenty over, the woman is more likely to be treated badly because of it (of course that isn't your fault!)... For some reason our society accepts overweight men more than overweight woman; just look at sitcoms...You'll have some pretty woman and the "husband" can be huge and no one cares. He's funny; he's a "teddy bear."


thats true about society. and its true in a way. women are supposed to be beautiful. men are supposed to be.. able? strong.

but personally i'd probably "treat more badly" the guy. hes supposed to be more active than the girl, hes supposed to work more, hes supposed to be stronger physically and mentally. not giving in to fast food which is what gets 90% of guys fat.

heck girls are even supposed to have more fat than men since they can be mothers. but too much fat or even too little fat are unattractive.

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So I envy your ability to not let things bother you, but many people haven't become that confident in themselves,


thats what ive been saying. its about your self esteem.

and personally i think with all the convieniences we have today (im guilty of that too, though lately its been just money cause i dont have a job) we've become softer than we should be. unfortunately in my opinion we only change out of love or out of need. we change for God because we love Him. we change to get a job because we need it. its the same mentally. and with all the conveniences today we've become soft.

funny i thought that usually its the 70 year old people that say such things haha.

anyway, its just ridiculous in my opinion even for a girl to get so down just cause some stranger called her.. whatever. its a stranger! and you gain nothing but be sad about it.

sorry if im being kinda insensitive in a way, but thats how life is.. and its not like im talking to 10 year olds..



Calea37 -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 12:10:29 PM)

Konstantinos,

No, I hear you...when I first read your post I thought, "Wow, what a jerk!" (lol..sorry).. But after I thought about it, you are just coming from your own point of view. Actually not a bad point of view, it's just a much harder one for people to get. But until we get it, we will forever be giving someone else the power to make us feel good or bad. It is so easy to view ourselves by using someone else's standards. I'm no ten year old [;)]and I still have a hard time, but I'm working on it... Because no matter how good we get ourselves looking there will always be someone who is more than happy to criticize us for whatever reason..whether it is just to be mean, or to make themselves feel better.[:@]


So I try to stay focused on how God sees me and do the best I can with what He has given me. But I do hate to see someone get their feelings hurt, because lots of people haven't thickened up their skin yet or learned to focus on who God has created them to be and I know how sad they feel.

So you and I are in agreement in theory, it's just that I'm a "sensitive"[8D] girl so I would deal with it differently. All in all I think I would prefer that thick skin though!



Konstantinos -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 12:34:54 PM)

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"Wow, what a jerk!" (lol..sorry)


thats ok. i am one haha

its kinda getting the thread off topic but anyway.. two more things i'd say are

learn how to laugh at yourself. it helps with confidence a lot. if every time you get a bad criticism you cant laugh then of course you'll be sad.

if you cant laugh cause you didnt cook a food right and your friend said it tasted horrible then idk.. isnt it too much?

im not even sure how it helps.. but i think it has with me. and it makes you be a lot less mad at people adn in general. heck im not even sure why we laugh at all!

and i dont know how hard it is for girls to do otherwise but most girls i see seem to put most of the time satisfying their insecurities first, and solving the actual problem second. the first is temporary for sure... the second.. may be temporary too in some cases but it sure will last a lot longer.

its ridiculous for a husband that loves his wife all the time and would die for her to need to tell her every 5 minutes that he loves her because she worries he may not. thats just an example btw



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 1:03:39 PM)

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anyway, its just ridiculous in my opinion even for a girl to get so down just cause some stranger called her.. whatever. its a stranger! and you gain nothing but be sad about it.



Why do you assume it was strangers? In my case, it was often schoolmates, not strangers.



Konstantinos -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 1:08:52 PM)

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Why do you assume it was strangers? In my case, it was often schoolmates, not strangers.


it was an example because thats someone you'd value their opinion the least. hence making the getting upset more ridiculous

schoolmates is different because you have to live with them for a long time, and especially in high school they are not mature enough, but nor are you or me.

but you arent in high school anymore



imit8him -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 1:33:18 PM)

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ORIGINAL: buckifn

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I do feel awful after listening to my friends talk sometimes.


Is it possible that is the Spirit within you that feels sickened also? I believe many things we say and do grieves the Holy Spirit and that could be what you are experiencing...Pray about it and follow what the Spirit leads...which may be choose better friends. friends that say words which edify and build other's up.

What you mentioned is very common in many workplaces which is one of many reasons I separate business and friends....I truly believe what the BIble says..what fellowship does light have with darkness?

I have nothing in common with someone who has nothing better to do with their time then hold conversations such as those you described.


Yeah, I need to be careful with not hangnig out with these guys too much. I think before that I need to check my own heart and fast and pray about my thoughts. But I feel it's so bothersome to my conscience to listen to "unwholesome talk" that I do see a change of friends (or at least limiting my time with certain ones) is in order.

One difficulty is that I play sports regularly and espcially in those situations I find guys to be the worst. Either way, I'm going to force myself to do something about this, because it's eroding my purity of mind.

-Imit



imit8him -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 1:47:32 PM)

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ORIGINAL: Cloak

People who focus on outer beauty are shallow, superficial and uneducated.

If I were you; I would cut them off and start looking for better and wiser friends.

It's better to be friendless and happy than with bad company. [;)]


Thanks Cloak...very true indeed. I'm going to pray about that this week. I just had time today to look at these posts and I realize how obviously wrong and vulgar these discussions of looks and lust are...They are based on selfish lust and greed of the eyes and flesh. They really do reduce other people to a "picture" (as someone put it) and something to be only used for our own pleasure/purposes.

You know....the more I think about this topic the more disgusted I feel. [8|] ....Time to refocus my spiritual life and thoughts. [:)] ...And time to possiby change friends.



Konstantinos -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 2:47:37 PM)

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It's better to be friendless and happy than with bad company


this is true. from a perspective. OP if you actually are unhappy with them, then its always better to be yourself and not have those friends. if you feel that every time they talk like that you are repressed about telling them to stop for example.. then its not worth it. better to be alone, than to feel lonely in a group.

there is though the other perspective.. people need friends, whether they are unbelievers or not. personally im not sure what i would do but i dont think you should stop being there for them just because of that. get other friends that you feel closer to... and feel less closer around these ones.

in the end nothing is certain and you dont know when you are just being lonely in a group and repressing yourself and just opening yourself to sin and when you are actually making a difference in someone's life and maybe bringing them closer to God in some way.

IMO as christians unless you are not mature enough as a christian yet you should suck up the first and try to do the second. how much though will you need to hang around with them to do the second? you dont know unless God tells you. so dont worry about it. just take it easy.



Calea37 -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 4:45:46 PM)

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ORIGINAL: imit8him



You know....the more I think about this topic the more disgusted I feel. [8|] ....Time to refocus my spiritual life and thoughts. [:)] ...And time to possiby change friends.


Well, sounds like the more you think about it, the more you know you want to change it.

A long time ago we had just moved to a new city and I was lonely...I met this woman and we became "friends." There were times when she would be nasty about different people because of their money (or lack of it)... I pretty much overlooked it for a while (for one thing I was lonely). The final straw was when I was at a get together with her and some of her other friends and they started bashing some woman's husband because of the type of shoe he wore! [&:] I guess it wasn't an expensive enough shoe or something...[:@] I knew that that would be the last gathering I went to; lonely or not! It just wasn't worth it!!

I know that is a little different than your issue, but my point is that it was a conversation that I felt disgusted with...I felt better after I ended that relationship and God did bring me true friends.



Konstantinos -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 4:51:46 PM)

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they started bashing some woman's husband because of the type of shoe he wore


hahahahaah the shoe?!? yeah thats really important stuff!



Calea37 -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 4:58:27 PM)

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ORIGINAL: Konstantinos

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they started bashing some woman's husband because of the type of shoe he wore


hahahahaah the shoe?!? yeah thats really important stuff!


Yeah, but the greatest part was that MY husband had a pair of them too!!!! Of course "back then" I was even less secure than I am now so I said nothing!! Didn't want to be ridiculed, you know! (See how horrible "girls" are??????)[;)]



Konstantinos -> RE: Is Discussing Looks Wrong? (5/5/2008 5:02:17 PM)

so girls sit and bash my shoes all together?

thats such a waste of time. they could always have bashed my... back. its horrible. that teenager stuff just wont go away



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