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Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 4/30/2008 2:46:12 AM
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JordanW
Posts: 590
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Bakersfield, California
Status: offline
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I just had a question about this Bible. I usually like to use the KJV over the NKJV, but I have lately been using my NKJV. Anyways, my old Pastor told me that the Ryrie Study Bible isn't a good Bible because Charles Ryrie's commentary's and personal thoughts about the scriptures are incorrect. Now, he told me this after I had already bought the Bible, the funny thing is, is that it is the Bible that he uses when preaching his Sermon's. I'm confused, if any of you know about this Bible please help me!
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 4/30/2008 5:42:27 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2322
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
I just had a question about this Bible. I usually like to use the KJV over the NKJV, but I have lately been using my NKJV. Anyways, my old Pastor told me that the Ryrie Study Bible isn't a good Bible because Charles Ryrie's commentary's and personal thoughts about the scriptures are incorrect. Now, he told me this after I had already bought the Bible, the funny thing is, is that it is the Bible that he uses when preaching his Sermon's. I'm confused, if any of you know about this Bible please help me!
One thing that is going to be difficult for you is getting used to the fact that good people can have different opinions. None of our opinions are 100% correct. Not Charles Ryrie and not your pastor.
I don't have a Ryrie Study Bible but several people in my church do.
The commentary notes in a study Bible are going to present a particular theological slant. If you subscribe to that particular theological view, then the notes will be helpful.
Charles Ryrie is premillenial and dispensational. It is a mainline evangelical POV. It is not dangerous or bad. But a number of people will challenge it and disagree strongly with that view.
The Ryrie Study Bible can be very helpful and useful. There is nothing harmful, unless one believes the premillenial and dispensational views of scripture are dangerous. Certainly some people do.
Insofar as your pastor using something that he wouldn't want you to use, he has probably had that Bible for a number of years. Therefore, he probably has a lot of his own notes written in the margins with underlines. It would difficult to give up one's own notes. He probably started out agreeing with Ryrie on a number of things and then changed his mine.
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 4/30/2008 10:07:35 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1969
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
I just had a question about this Bible. I usually like to use the KJV over the NKJV, but I have lately been using my NKJV. Anyways, my old Pastor told me that the Ryrie Study Bible isn't a good Bible because Charles Ryrie's commentary's and personal thoughts about the scriptures are incorrect.
JordanW:
Hi and welcome to CW. I have owned a KJV Ryrie Study Bible for many years, and I can assure you that it is an excellent study Bible. Your pastor -- with all due respect -- has not been fair in his assessment of this Bible and there could be many reasons.
Ryrie, and Dallas Theological Seminary (where he was and perhaps still is professor of Systematic Theology) are solidly evangelical if not fundamentalist. I do not believe his commentary is "incorrect" although one may not necessarily agree with each and every interpretation (which would be true for all commentaries).
quote:
Now, he told me this after I had already bought the Bible, the funny thing is, is that it is the Bible that he uses when preaching his Sermon's. I'm confused, if any of you know about this Bible please help me!
Since there is an obvious dissonance here, why don't you ask your "old Pastor" to provide you with very specific instances where he believes Ryrie is "incorrect". You can present them in this thread and let's see if Ryrie is indeed incorrect, or perhaps your pastor is mistaken.
There is also the possibility that your pastor may be now leaning towards Reformed Theology, and Ryrie certainly does not hold to that position (neither does Dallas to the best of my knowledge). Therefore in your pastor's eyes, Ryrie is "incorrect".
Those who hold to Reformed Theology automatically assume that they are doctrinally "correct" and all others are "incorrect". Nothing could be further from the truth.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 4/30/2008 10:55:26 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1969
Status: offline
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quote:
The text itself, however, will not lead you in that direction. On the contrary, it requires myriad footnotes, prophecy conferences, and fictional novels to make those teachings "apparent" in scripture.
Indulging in gross exaggeration and pure hyperbole is not conducive to arriving at the truth. Of course, it does provide a sense of superiority to those who disagree (again something not conducive to the truth).
Jordan, you need not be deterred by such comments, which have little substance, and are more heat than light.
As you search the Scriptures (interpreting Scripture by Scripture), you will discover for yourself that Ryrie's interpretations are totally in line with Scripture, which distinguishes between the Jew, the Gentile and the Church of God. God has indeed ordained various dispensations or "economies" and they generally line up with His covenants. As to a pre-millenial position, there is far more credibility to it than any other.
The bottom line is to let us see the so-called "errors" in the Ryrie Study Bible out in the open. Ask you pastor to provide chapter and verse, as well as what he believes to be the "right" interpretation. Post them here and let's see if Ryrie is "incorrect".
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 4/30/2008 11:38:24 PM
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JordanW
Posts: 590
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Bakersfield, California
Status: offline
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Thanks a lot for all of the responses guys, it makes me feel a lot better.
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/1/2008 11:27:15 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 1466
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
I just had a question about this Bible. I usually like to use the KJV over the NKJV, but I have lately been using my NKJV. Anyways, my old Pastor told me that the Ryrie Study Bible isn't a good Bible because Charles Ryrie's commentary's and personal thoughts about the scriptures are incorrect. Now, he told me this after I had already bought the Bible, the funny thing is, is that it is the Bible that he uses when preaching his Sermon's. I'm confused, if any of you know about this Bible please help me!
The bibles I use most regularly are ones which contain no commentaries at all. I personally prefer my commentaries to be separated from my bible, and when I do look at them I always use a number of differing commentaries so that I can understand the issue from every perspective. The difficulty of having commentaries included in your bible (whether it is Ryrie's or someone elses) is that you are continually presented with a single point of view, and apart from the biblical authors, no ones view is "inspired" and should be unquestionably trusted. As you pastor pointed out, there are aspects to Ryrie's commentaries that are incorrect and not to be trusted, just as there are parts of every other commentator's work that are incorrect and not to be trusted. It is always much easier to spot the errors made by one commentator when you read commentaries from those holding positions on all sides of the issue.
If you continue to use your Ryrie bible, consider purchasing a few good commentaries from authors who hold opposing positions. Don't rely only on the commentaries you find in the Ryrie Bible.
quote:
As you search the Scriptures (interpreting Scripture by Scripture), you will discover for yourself that Ryrie's interpretations are totally in line with Scripture
Apart from the biblical authors, no man's interpretation is totally in line with Scripture; don't be fooled. We all come to the scriptures with our own personal biases (and sinful nature), and those that don't recognize this scare me. Until someone investigates all side of the issue, it is often nearly impossible to spot the errors presented in any one single argument. Commentators present errors for many reasons; their personal biases can sometimes blind them; they may be unaware of recent archaeological discoveries that contradict their position; because written works are always dated and discoveries may have been made since the publication of an authors work, the same author often will hold an opposing viewpoint despite an earlier work that presented something different.
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/1/2008 4:14:06 PM
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JordanW
Posts: 590
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Bakersfield, California
Status: offline
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I may just start using my New Spirit Filled Life Bible from Jack Hayford. I'll e-mail my old Pastor about this.
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/1/2008 10:55:50 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1969
Status: offline
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quote:
I may just start using my New Spirit Filled Life Bible from Jack Hayford. I'll e-mail my old Pastor about this.
Jordan:
You did not say anything about your old Pastor leaning in the Charismatic direction. The very title of the "Spirit-Filled Bible" should tell you something. This is a Bible designed for Charismatics (see below), so if that is the direction in which you are heading, then of course it will suit you just fine.
If you wish to understand Scripture without the modern Charismatic influence, then the Ryrie Study Bible should be extremely helpful (as is the Original Scofied Reference Bible from 1909).
quote:
The Spirit-Filled Life® Bible ~ Jack W. Hayford, General Editor ~
"CHARISMATIC—Nelson Bibles has a wide variety of Bible products with the Spirit-filled, Charismatic believer in mind. We're dedicated to providing you with the Scriptural integrity you need and the spiritual nourishment you desire."
" A Personal Study Bible Unveiling All God's Fullness In All God's Word "
New King James Version ~
"In the decade since Dr. Jack Hayford set out to develop a Bible expressly for Spirit-filled believers, the Spirit-Filled Life® Bible has become the standard for balanced scholarship in the Pentecostal/Charismatic tradition. "
"Its many unique study features, developed under the leadership of Pastor Jack Hayford, encourage practical life application of Bible truth."
You'll find all of the unique features that have made the Spirit-Filled Life® Bible so useful for Christian growth and living: Kingdom Dynamics studies highlight fifteen major themes that are chained throughout the Bible; Word Wealth provides more than 500 Greek and Hebrew word studies, shedding light on key passages; Truth-in-Action Charts help readers apply important Bible teachings to everyday life. Also included are enlightening book introductions and outlines, Spirit-Filled Life® annotations, a concordance, and full-color maps. "
The statements, "expressly for Spirit Filled believers" and "Spirit-filled, Charismatic believer" suggests that unless one is a pentecostal/charismatic, one does not have the Holy Spirit, which would be a false teaching. SEE: Sins of “the father” ~ Charles F. Parham.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/1/2008 11:06:04 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1969
Status: offline
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quote:
there are aspects to Ryrie's commentaries that are incorrect and not to be trusted
Benelchi:
Chapter and verse please (plus the actual comments).
Unless you can show us very specifically what you have asserted, this is pure propaganda. That's why I asked Jordan to supply chapter and verse from his old Pastor's accusations. He hasn't supplied any thus far.
What I have found is that propaganda against dispensationalists is rife among Christians. When asked to supply specifics to support those accusations, they are either non-existent or lame excuses.
So let's see the proof from the pudding. I have Ryrie's KJV New Testament printed in 1977. Please show me the errors that I missed herein. That would certainly help Jordan immensely.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/1/2008 11:28:09 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 1466
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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First, it helps no one to simply take my quote out of context, let's put into the context I presented. What I actually said was "there are aspects to Ryrie's commentaries that are incorrect and not to be trusted, just as there are parts of every other commentator's work that are incorrect and not to be trusted."
Second, If you really believe that Ryrie's commentary is somehow inerrant, then there really is nothing I nor anyone else is going to be able to present to change your mind, as clearly evidence was not required to come to that conclusion. The entire protestant movement is founded on the idea that only the scripture is inspired, authoritative, and inerrant i.e. Luther's "Sola scriptura"; if you choose to believe this kind authority extends to Ryrie's commentaries, so be it; however, I like most Christians reject this claim.
Jordan,
Be very careful of anyone who teaches that anything outside of God's word is authoritative and/or inerrant. That is a standard that only God's word can meet. When someone advocates reading only one source, that should raise a lot of big red flags. While I have no difficulty with someone who advocates reading Ryrie's commentaries, I would be extremely cautious of anyone who advocates reading only his commentaries. As I said before, "If you continue to use your Ryrie bible, consider purchasing a few good commentaries from authors who hold opposing positions. Don't rely only on the commentaries you find in the Ryrie Bible."
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
there are aspects to Ryrie's commentaries that are incorrect and not to be trusted
Benelchi:
Chapter and verse please (plus the actual comments).
Unless you can show us very specifically what you have asserted, this is pure propaganda. That's why I asked Jordan to supply chapter and verse from his old Pastor's accusations. He hasn't supplied any thus far.
What I have found is that propaganda against dispensationalists is rife among Christians. When asked to supply specifics to support those accusations, they are either non-existent or lame excuses.
So let's see the proof from the pudding. I have Ryrie's KJV New Testament printed in 1977. Please show me the errors that I missed herein. That would certainly help Jordan immensely.
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/2/2008 12:14:22 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1969
Status: offline
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quote:
Second, If you really believe that Ryrie's commentary is somehow inerrant, then there really is nothing I nor anyone else is going to be able to present to change your mind, as clearly evidence was not required to come to that conclusion.
The issue is not whether my mind needs to be changed. The issue is whether your assertions about Ryrie are true or false. No one has suggested that Ryrie or any other commentator is "inerrant" therefore "infallable" (like Scripture).
By the same token, you made an assertion about Ryrie, therefore you must prove from Ryrie's comments that he is in error. I'm still waiting.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/2/2008 12:37:23 AM
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crankius
Posts: 4953
Joined: 4/12/2005
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If I had to choose between a Spirit Filled Study Bible by Hayford or a Ryrie Study Bible, I would choose the Ryrie Study Bible.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
"One Another" Commands
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/2/2008 1:01:10 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 1466
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
Second, If you really believe that Ryrie's commentary is somehow inerrant, then there really is nothing I nor anyone else is going to be able to present to change your mind, as clearly evidence was not required to come to that conclusion.
The issue is not whether my mind needs to be changed. The issue is whether your assertions about Ryrie are true or false. No one has suggested that Ryrie or any other commentator is "inerrant" therefore "infallable" (like Scripture).
By the same token, you made an assertion about Ryrie, therefore you must prove from Ryrie's comments that he is in error. I'm still waiting.
The only assertion about Ryrie's commentary that I made was that his commentary like all others contains errors, and that only the bible is inerrant. If you object to the idea that Ryrie's work contains errors just as the works of all other non biblical authors contain errors, then you have made the assertion that his work is inerrant. Such an assertion shows a bias that is so strong that there is no reason to believe that evidence of any kind could possibly make an impact.
There have been many very Godly men who disagree with many of Ryrie's conclusions i.e. Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, etc..., etc..., etc... PROVE that Ryrie's opinion is somehow more inspired than the opinions of these other Godly men. I personally do not believe that Ryrie himself would elevate his work to the status you have placed it, and I for one strongly agree with the reformers when they cried 'Sola Scriptura' i.e 'Scripture Alone'
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/2/2008 3:09:31 AM
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JordanW
Posts: 590
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Bakersfield, California
Status: offline
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Why would you guys choose a Ryrie Study Bible over the Hayford one?
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/2/2008 3:11:45 AM
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JordanW
Posts: 590
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Bakersfield, California
Status: offline
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quote:
Dear Jordan,
The Ryrie Study Bible is good, but very denominational.
He's not Spirit Filled.
Consequently, you must be watchful to not just eat every comment without adding our Spirit Filled convictions.
How have you been doing? I miss you and your brother and Dad and Grandma very much. I pray all is well.
Love,
Pastor Michael Gulotta
Directly from my old Pastor.
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/2/2008 9:27:24 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 1466
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
Why would you guys choose a Ryrie Study Bible over the Hayford one?
I would choose the Ryrie bible over the Hayford (Spirit-Filled Life Bible) because I trust the scholarship of those who contributed to the Ryrie study bible more than I do those that contributed to the Hayford one. Hayford was not the only contributor to the Spirit-filled Life Bible, and many of those who did contribute do not have the background in theological studies that Ryrie did, and some of the commentary in that bible reflects that lack of thorough study. While I don't agree with some of the conclusions that Ryrie made, I do have a good deal of respect for his scholarship.
Charles Caldwell Ryrie (born 1925) is a Christian writer and theologian. He graduated from Haverford College (B.A.), Dallas Theological Seminary (Th.M., Th.D.) and the University of Edinburgh, Scotland (Ph.D.). For many years he served as professor of systematic theology and dean of doctoral studies at Dallas Theological Seminary and as president and professor at Philadelphia College of Bible, now Philadelphia Biblical University.
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/2/2008 9:37:53 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1507
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
Why would you guys choose a Ryrie Study Bible over the Hayford one?
Greetings,
I have had no problem with the NKJV,
Generally I look at the beginning, if it dont read
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
I toss it out!!
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/2/2008 10:41:12 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 3700
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
quote:
...He's not Spirit Filled...
Directly from my old Pastor.
My guess that this judgmental statement is because Ryrie is either not Pentecostal/Charismatic or that he doesn't speak in tongues.
Sad that one judges "Spirit Filled" (an internal condition) solely on the external or along denominational prejudices.
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/2/2008 11:49:09 AM
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crankius
Posts: 4953
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Sad that one judges "Spirit Filled" (an internal condition) solely on the external or along denominational prejudices.
Exactly--I would not want a Bible with commentary viewed through the lens of a false understanding of what it means to be Spirit-Filled.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
"One Another" Commands
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/2/2008 12:32:13 PM
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JordanW
Posts: 590
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Bakersfield, California
Status: offline
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So do you guys believe that he was/is Spirit Filled?
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/2/2008 12:33:30 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 1466
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
So do you guys believe that he was/is Spirit Filled?
Yes!
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