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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/5/2008 12:20:00 PM
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phyl2
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quote:
It is very strange that you say that about the NKJV, because I was contemplating starting to use mine again, because I wasn't really sure of it, as I have read things about it that make it seem like it's a horrible translation or something like that, but I did use it tonight.
I remembered you had mentioned that you had the NKJV and liked it and were considering going back to using it, but you were concerned because you had read bad things about it.
The problem with some of those websites, etc, is that they are made by people who seem to be capable of looking at things only through their own bias. They have condemned many honest and good Christians as not being true Christians based not on what the Bible says about who is a Christian, but on their own system of works, some even going so far as saying a person is not a Christian if they don't use the KJV. Where in the Bible do you find the commandment that our salvation is based on what translation we use?
One of the problems the KJVs have with the NKJV is the "triquetra" symbol found on the cover. They claim it is a pagan symbol now used by witches and New Agers. The truth is, it is a symbol used by ancient Irish Christians. It is true ancient pagan groups also used the symbol, but consider this: who is it that takes the things of God and produces a counterfeit? That's right, it is Satan who does that. And, if the scholars who are experts in studying ancient things have not found proof who used that symbol first, the KJVOs have no basis to claim that it was a pagan symbol that Satan is using to infiltrate the church. Consider this: the New Agers also use the rainbow as a symbol, but what does your Bible say about the sign of the rainbow, what it means and who gave it? That's right, God gave the sign of the rainbow to HIS people as a promise. I don't know about you, but I am not going to let Satan and the New Agers take over a symbol that was given to us by God!
And, if you look at the website, and they show how the symbol is really a set of "sixes" intertwined, you notice that they have to cover up parts of the symbol in order to make it work. If you don't cover up those parts of the symbol what do you have? A set of ichthus fish symbols intertwined. And the ichthus fish was a symbol used by the ancient Christians as an identification during days of persecution. When an ancient Christian met another person, he would draw half of the fish symbol in the dust, if the other person drew the other half, both would know that they had met a Christian.
Another claim the KJVOs have is that the NKJV has removed "hell" from the Bible. They claim that the translators instead would use "Hades" and "Sheol" instead of hell. What they don't tell you is that in every instance where the NKJV translators used "Sheol" and "Hades", those are the exact words used in the original languages! Sheol and Hades are the Hebrew and Greek names for the place of the dead, not hell. And, in fact, the KJV translates the word "Sheol" as "grave" as many times as it translates it "hell". If the NKJV should be condemned because it does not translate "Sheol" as "hell", the KJV should be condemned too! You can check this out by using the Bible study tools at Crosswalk, run a search for the word "hell" in the Old Testament using the KJV with Strongs tool and then click on the underlined word "hell".
One claim that I find the most humorous (if it wasn't so sad) is this one:
quote:
In 2 Timothy 2:15, the NKJV (like the NIV, NASV, RSV, NRSV) remove that "obsolete" word - "study"! The only time you're told to "study" your Bible. AND THEY ZAP IT! Why don't they want you to "study" your Bible? Maybe they don't want you to look too close - you might find out what they've ACTUALLY done to your Bible! The "real" KJV is the only English Bible in the world that instructs you to "study" your Bible!
Use an online Bible search tool and search 2 Timothy 2:15 using the KJV with Strongs and click on the word "study". Read what the Greek word means.
quote:
1. to hasten, make haste
2. to exert one's self, endeavour, give diligence
Now look at how the KJV translates that word:
quote:
KJV (11) - be diligent, 2; be forward, 1; do diligence, 2; endeavour, 3; give diligence, 1; labour, 1; study, 1;
Find a dictionary that shows the meanings of words back in the 1600's and you will find that the word "study" meant to be diligent! It did not just mean to study as we think of it now as in studying a book.
I'm sorry to have taken this thread a bit off topic, but I just wanted you to know that if you like the NKJV, it is a good translation for you to use. If you have more questions/concerns about it, maybe you should start another thread.
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/5/2008 12:21:52 PM
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FaVored
Posts: 29
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
Is the Thompson Chain KJV a good Bible? I have bought many study Bible's and have not been satisfied... 
I have an early Thompson Chain KJV that I used when I went to Bible College in the late 60's. It's good if you want to follow a particular theme through the Bible. I still use it quite a bit to get outlines for my sermons. The study notes in my copy are in the back rather than throughout the Bible, which makes it easier reading the Word without being distracted by the notes.
For me, the stregnth of the Thompson Chain is that locating scripture is very easy. If you know a word in a verse, you can usually flip to the index and find the scripture or the concordance is pretty good as well. Because so many of the English words have different meanings in the origial languages, this bible will show you most of the scriptures in which the word occurs but you must be mindful of this to ensure that you are using the context correctly. Another thing I love about this bible is the self pronouncing text and there are no little reference letters in the text. This makes it smooth to read and memorize from.
There are lots of charts in the back that are helpful, although I don't take the time to use them often. For instance, the travels of Moses are charted on a map complete with scriptures...very cool.
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/8/2008 4:24:29 AM
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JordanW
Posts: 590
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From: Bakersfield, California
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Recently I've heard talk of Ryrie believing in "Lordship Salvation", what exactly is this?
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Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
Smoke Free as of: April 30, 2008
Thank you Jesus!
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/8/2008 6:26:25 AM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2322
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
Recently I've heard talk of Ryrie believing in "Lordship Salvation", what exactly is this?
You have just opened a can of worms. It involves a book written by John MacArthur entitled The Gospel According to Jesus. Another one by Zane Hodges' entitled The Gospel Under Seige and Charles Ryrie's book So Great Salvation.
There is considerable disagreement on this subject, particularly among the forums. Last year, we did a month long thread on the subject. If it has not been relegated to the recycle bin of Crosswalk's archives, it may still be there. Otherwise, if you want to discuss the subject, you may choose to open up the subject again.
This link will lead you to a book review on the 2 major views.
Two views
Here is a link to a web site reflecting MacArthurs's own words.
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/LSMAC.HTM
Personally, I tend to disagree with John MacArthur. But I don't agree with Charles Ryrie either. One of the problems is how each side characterizes (or mischaracterizes the other side). It's the subtleties of wording that rubs some the wrong way.
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/8/2008 11:46:59 PM
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crankius
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
In my opinion, these would be good study Bibles. Some of them come from different theological perspectives which are important to recognize, but they all have good scholarship.
MacArthur Study Bible
Zondervan Study Bible (NASB, and they also have NIV)
Reformation Study Bible
Ryrie Study Bible
Nelson's NKJV Study Bible
None of them are 100% correct! But all of them will be helpful.
I'm sure others can recommend study Bibles they like. I use a crazy variety. 
But my every day Bible has no commentary.
Jordan wasn't asking about every Bible that's on the market or whether commentaries are bad. He was specifically concerned about the Ryrie Study Bible. And for someone who may be relatively new to the faith, a sound, conservative, evangelical/fundamental study Bible can be a tremendous help.
Now Jordan is simply getting confused because he's being told that Bibles with comments are not as good as Bibles without etc. etc. That's an entirely separate issue.
Jordan, listen to what Ryrie says in his Preface:
quote:
Useful as helps can be, the most important thing is to READ THE BIBLE ITSELF. THIS IS GOD'S WORD TO YOU. I pray that these notes will serve to make it clearer and more personally meaningful.
Ezra,
Please--he asked questions and we answered. Clearly my post was in FAVOR of reading the Bible. Please don't misconstrue my post.
quote:
Now Jordan is simply getting confused because he's being told that Bibles with comments are not as good as Bibles without etc. etc. That's an entirely separate issue.
I did not state this. I said they were all helpful.
< Message edited by crankius -- 5/9/2008 12:09:36 AM >
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
"One Another" Commands
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/11/2008 3:28:30 PM
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JordanW
Posts: 590
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Bakersfield, California
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What version of the KJV is Ryrie's Bible in?
_____________________________
Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
Smoke Free as of: April 30, 2008
Thank you Jesus!
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/11/2008 9:50:52 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2322
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From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
What version of the KJV is Ryrie's Bible in?
I found some publications of the Ryrie Study Bible in the NIV, NASB, and the KJV. I didn't find any in the NKJV. One forum note I found said that Ryrie's Study Bible stopped coming out in the NKJV sometime after 1985.
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/12/2008 12:14:13 AM
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JordanW
Posts: 590
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From: Bakersfield, California
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No I mean like what version of the KJV is it that he is using?
_____________________________
Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
Smoke Free as of: April 30, 2008
Thank you Jesus!
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/12/2008 12:38:06 AM
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phyl2
Posts: 202
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I'm not sure, but I thought the original Ryrie Study Bible was a NASB, not KJV. At least that's how I first saw it.
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/12/2008 12:49:21 AM
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JordanW
Posts: 590
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Bakersfield, California
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They have one in NASB. I'm just wondering if it's the authorized version?
_____________________________
Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
Smoke Free as of: April 30, 2008
Thank you Jesus!
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/12/2008 6:51:56 AM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2322
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From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
No I mean like what version of the KJV is it that he is using?
There are not several versions of the KJV in current publication, unless you count the NKVJ or the New Schofield Bible. Pretty much all current KJVs are the same.
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/12/2008 12:49:18 PM
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JordanW
Posts: 590
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Bakersfield, California
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I mean like the 1611 version, or the 1769 version...there are many different versions...
_____________________________
Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
Smoke Free as of: April 30, 2008
Thank you Jesus!
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/12/2008 1:43:07 PM
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BerianAardvark
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quote:
Well then how can we be sure what type of Bible to get when we just want a good Bible?
IMO, as long as you avoid the cultic "Translations", like the New World Translation (Jehovah's Witness) as an example, the best Bible for you is the one that you can read and understand. If the language of the KJV doesn't throw you then well and good, but if it seems obscure and difficult then perhaps a different translation would suit you better.
I have several translations (especially in my Bible study software) and am constantly amazed at how little they actually differ from each other, occasionally the phrasing or image used might differ, but nothing effecting orthodox doctrine.
Personally for STUDY I much prefer a word for word translation (KJV, NKJV or NASB are the main ones), but for daily devotional reading I find that the Thought for Thought (so called dynamic) lead to less "rabbit trailing".
Perhaps because the Thought for Thought translations use more modern grammatical constructs and images, they are often an "easier" read, but when it comes to doctrine I want word for word.
Study Bibles and commentaries are not inspired, scripture is...nor are translations...If you have some knowledge of Greek and/or Hebrew an Interlinear (especially one with Strong's numbers) is very good.
Several good Bible Study software programs have translations and interlinears with embedded Strong's numbers...hover over the number and a window opens with the definition of the word). I know personally of one free program that is excellent in that respect (though the newer Translations aren't always free).
Tim
_____________________________
We sow our thoughts, and we reap our actions; we sow our actions, and we reap our habits; we sow our habits, and we reap our characters; we sow our characters, and we reap our destiny. C. A. Hall
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/12/2008 4:33:22 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2322
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
I mean like the 1611 version, or the 1769 version...there are many different versions...
Jordan,
Those are not "versions." They are all the 1611 KJV. There are updated "editions." That is to say, they correct things like spellings and so forth.
Phyl could probably tell you when the last edition update of the KJV occurred. Probably not in the last 100 years. And there are not multiple updated editions running around--except for some reprints. There are reprints of older editions. But they would not be commonly sold in the normal retail outlets. So no Ryrie Study Bible would be sold in those reprints.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 5/12/2008 4:42:39 PM >
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/12/2008 8:38:56 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2322
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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Jordan,
You've been asking some good questions. In any event, you seem to have an inquisitive mind and a desire to learn. Obviously, you have to start somewhere.
Many of us in these forums have been discussing these types of issues for years. Obviously, some of us know a few subjects better than others. Phyl, for example, knows a lot about translation issues and ancient manuscripts--the kinds of stuff that you would find by researching books. But, for example, on the subject of the KJV, people reach different conclusions.
My wife has a Ryrie Study Bible (or did have) somewhere around the house. But we don't use it. I have probably over a half dozen different kinds of Bibles. These days, I use whatever Bible is at hand and I vary between the NASB or the NET Bible or the NIV, depending on how detailed I want to study something.
So I don't want to discourage you from asking questions by being too brief or too vague in my answers. Sometimes, I have to figure out what presupposition you have that I missed. Like in the previous few posts, I didn't know at first that your question really involved the KJV "editions."
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/13/2008 2:01:13 AM
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phyl2
Posts: 202
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
They have one in NASB. I'm just wondering if it's the authorized version?
Yes I know they have the Ryrie Study Bible in NASB. What I'm saying is that I believe when the Ryrie Study Bible originally was published it was with the NASB translation, but I am not 100% certain about that.
But what do you mean by wondering if the NASB is the authorized version? There have been two versions of the NASB, the original and the 1995 update.
quote:
Now I am totally confused as to what Bible I should be reading.
There is no need for confusion and no one can tell you which version you should be reading. There have been varying Bible versions since before the New Testament era. In all the instructions for Christian living found in the New Testament, there are no instructions that we should use one certain version.
You like the NKJV. Read it!
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/13/2008 6:44:37 AM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2322
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JordanW
Now I am totally confused as to what Bible I should be reading.
Jordan,
Do you mean what version or do you mean what kind of study references you should have?
There are two types of Bible translation: The so-called "formal equivalent" and the "dynamic equivalent." Examples of the first one would be the KJV and the NASB. Examples of the 2nd would be the NIV or the New Living Translation.
For maximum benefit, use one from each type. For your nitty-gritty, more detailed study, a formal equivalent translation would be more helpful. For a broader sense of the passage, general subject understanding--use a dynamic equivalent Bible.
There are some people who will tell you that the new and later translations are evil, tampered with, unchristian ("New Age Bibles") and so forth. Frankly, I would discourage you from listening to them. But, ultimately, it's your decision. At this stage of your life and education, most of the issues involving those discussions are a little over your head. And frankly, I don't understand some of it either. But it's mostly because I don't have the time to get into it. I will never be a Greek scholar.
Some of the arguments are emotional or illogical. And sometimes, facts are misstated. I want to encourage you to study but I would suggest that you don't get too emotionally invested in the divisive part of it.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 5/13/2008 4:57:11 PM >
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Ryrie Study Bible (KJV) - 5/13/2008 8:05:25 PM
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JordanW
Posts: 590
Joined: 4/23/2008
From: Bakersfield, California
Status: offline
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Thanks for the info. :)
_____________________________
Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
Smoke Free as of: April 30, 2008
Thank you Jesus!
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