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Retrobyter -> RE: Jack Van Impe (5/4/2008 9:59:24 AM)
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Shalom, Lapidoth.
Quoting Matt. 24:29-30 is good, but how does that mesh with the prophecy that was written by Yochanan (John) in the book today known as the Revelation?
I've read all the arguments for pre-trib, against pre-trib, for post-trib, against post-trib, those for and against mid-trib, pre-wrath, and partial rapture positions. (I've even looked at the arguments for and against preterism, but that's not important right now.)
Frankly, I don't believe that ANY of the positions really capture the jist of what Yeshua`s prophecy and Yochanan's prophecy were saying! Each of the current eschatological positions has its own agenda!
So, how do you mesh the two? Isn't it the sixth seal that gives the following words? "Then I watched as he broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake, the sun turned black as sackcloth worn in mourning, and the full moon became blood-red. The stars fell from heaven to earth just as a fig tree drops its figs when shaken by a strong wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place. Then th earth's kings, the rulers, the generals, the rich and the mighty -- indeed, everyone, slave and free -- hid himself in caves and among the rocks in the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us (Hoshea 10:8) from the face of the One sitting on the throne and from the fury of the Lamb! For the Great Day of their fury has come, and who can stand?" (Rev. 6:12-17, CJB)
Wouldn't that correspond to Yeshua`s words in Matt. 24:29? Sure, it does!
But, what about verse 30? Where does it occur in the Revelation? Well, we have a preview mention of it in Rev. 1:7, but let's look at the rest of the things that happen after the first three chapters:
The seventh seal, which is subdivided into the seven trumpets, continues the falling of the stars! Check it out:
The first trumpet announces "hail and fire mingled with blood...thrown down upon the earth." These are herald meteorites that were reflected in the movies "Armageddon" and "Deep Impact," particularly "Deep Impact."
The second trumpet announces the "blazing mountain hurled into the sea," destroying 1/3 of the life and the ships upon the sea. That is VERY reminescent of "Deep Impact!" (This could be one of our oceans, such as the Atlantic, but I really think that it is talking specifically about the Mediterranean Sea, the Great Sea, as it was known back then, used for shipping between Rome, Greece, Egypt, and the East.)
The third trumpet is a "great star, blazing like a torch, falling from the sky onto a third of the rivers and onto the springs of water." This sputtering meteor breaks up in the atmosphere, but releases chemicals that poison a third of the fresh water sources.
The fourth trumpet is about the aftermath of the sea-landing meteorite: "the sun was struck, also a third of the moon and a third of the stars; so that a third of them were darkened, the day had a third less light, and the night likewise." While the sun and the moon could have been actually hit by the same phenomenon of the asteroid(s), it is unlikely -- given the distances -- that a third of the stars of the sky were actually struck. I believe, given the rest of the verse, that we are simply seeing the results of the ELE-like cloud of debris from the impact that blocks out a third of the LIGHT from the sun, moon and the stars.
The fifth trumpet is another "star that had fallen out of heaven (the sky) onto the earth, and he (it) was given the key [location] to the shaft leading down to the Abyss. He (It) opened the shaft of the Abyss, and there went up smoke from the shaft like the smoke of a huge furnace; the sun was darkened, and the sky too, by the smoke from the shaft...." (This verifies and confirms the results of the fourth trumpet.) "Then out of the smoke onto the earth came locusts...."
The sixth trumpet is again about the results of the previous impacts: "Release the four messengers that are bound at the great river Euphrates!" The Euphrates River will be diverted! These four messenger-nations, once held back by the strategic impasse of traversing a river with a whole army, are now free to move! "These four messengers had been kept ready for this moment, for this day and month and year, to kill a third of mankind; and the number of cavalry soldiers was two hundred million!"
Between the sixth and the seventh trumpets, we have "the seven thunderclaps" that "sounded with voices that spoke." However, we are given little information about these since Yochanan was instructed not to write them down. They would probably give us just too much information and there would have been no more guess-work about what was to transpire.
After the seven thunderclaps, the messenger standing on the sea and on the land swore to God that there would be no more delay.
THEN, the seventh trumpet sounds when "The kingdoms of the world have become the Kingdom of our Master (God) and His Messiah (Yeshua`), and He (God) will rule forever and ever!" Thus, the seven bowls of plagues that come AFTER this will FOLLOW the arrival of God's Messiah and are the RESULTS of the Judgment that He executes on those who have messed with His people, both Isra'el and His Gentile saints!
So,... is JVI right? No. But, are others right instead? NO! NONE OF THE POSITIONS give the correct order and interpretation of this book, even and especially in light of Yeshua`s prophecy! (And the preterists aren't even in the ball park!) Am I right? NO! I'm sure that I've missed some things, too. I can't tell you what because whatever it is is my "blind spot." You don't know that you don't know what you don't know!
That's my take on it.
Retrobyter
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