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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 10:49:00 AM
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lbolm
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Good morning everyone!!
I just wanted to jump in here a bit.
It was said the other day by earthless that I am a pastor/blogger that supports TB and his group. I am a pastor/blogger, BUT I do NOT support TB or any other ministry. THAT being said, I wish to post something from a blog that I shared there this morning and I feel it is relevant to this discussion. I ask that you read it with an open mind and receive it with the Love it is intended with.
lbolm
July 10, 2008 at
JimB wrote; “And I tend to agree with Ward - I can’t see how Bentley and I worship the same God. The fixation on power, and the complete absence of a coherent gospel message are frightening.”
Jim, I am NOT DEFENDING TB with this statement, but more so the whole underlying issue of indifference.
I believe that you and TB do worship the same God, but with entirely different views of The Gospel.
TB see’s it as a message of power ; 1 Cor.4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. And of course you can’t leave off Mark 16:
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17And these SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW THEM that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and CONFIRMING THE WORD WITH SIGNS following. Amen.
TB and many others, myself being one of them, believe that as believers there should be “confirming the word with signs following”. Personaly, I am satisfied with those signs being salvations, healings, deliverence, etc…., BUT always left up to and bringing Glory to God, The Father.
On the other side of the fence, we have those who are satisfied with a “salvation only” approach to the Gospel. That all the signs are not for today. You know these things that I mention to be the case, as you have been around this for a while.
They are both serving, IMO, the same God, but from different views.
I am reminded of this one UNIFYING verse
1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. { NO MAN CAN SAY JESUS IS THE LORD, BUT BY THE HOLY GHOST}
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
We need to ALL get to the proper balance of what is the Will of God.
He is going to, afterall, perform and perfect His will, in spite of us or despite of us. With us onboard with Him or not onboard.
I say these things in Love for you and all who visit here. We are the Children of the Most High and like most families, we seem to bicker a lot.
Love in Christ Jesus
Jake
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 10:52:25 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
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jake,
I don't see how you don't support Bentley. Do you mean you agree with his teachings, but don't support him finaincially?
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 11:21:02 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3122
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lbolm
On the other side of the fence, we have those who are satisfied with a “salvation only” approach to the Gospel. That all the signs are not for today. You know these things that I mention to be the case, as you have been around this for a while.
I love how pro Bentleyites reduce those of us who do not believe in what he is doing/saying (because it is not in alignment with the Word of God ) to "salvation only" Christians, and I highly resent it.
I know God can heal. I have seen Him heal my own daughter of Grand Mal Epilepsy. I know God can do great and mighty things. I have seen Him make beauty from the ashes of lives once broken and hopeless. I know God can perform miracles. I have seen Him take a former mental patient whose mind had been destroyed by drugs and restore him so that he would be used to lead thousands to Jesus Christ.
I have no doubts that God can do anything He pleases and reveal Himself in any way that He wants...but He would never do that in a way that is in direct opposition to His Word, which is what is happening in Lakeland.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 11:27:20 AM
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lbolm
Posts: 53
Joined: 7/7/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
jake,
I don't see how you don't support Bentley. Do you mean you agree with his teachings, but don't support him finaincially?
I don't support TB in financial means.
I call into question, those things that are not scriptural by ANYBODY. TB is included in that mix of anybody. I would question Billy Graham, The Pope or anyone else should they get off base from Scripture.
As I posted on here a couple of days ago, there is NO ONE that is in ministry work or for that matter anyone who is ministering at all, who is above accountability of their words and actions.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 11:33:39 AM
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lbolm
Posts: 53
Joined: 7/7/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: lbolm
On the other side of the fence, we have those who are satisfied with a “salvation only” approach to the Gospel. That all the signs are not for today. You know these things that I mention to be the case, as you have been around this for a while.
I love how pro Bentleyites reduce those of us who do not believe in what he is doing/saying (because it is not in alignment with the Word of God ) to "salvation only" Christians, and I highly resent it.
And how is it that you link anyone with an opposing view as to be a "pro Bentleyite", as if TB is the poster child for anyone who belives in the Gifts. That symply is FALSE !!
I offered up that post in Love for ALL my Brothers and Sisters in Christ and your response is indicative of the reason I said what I said on the last line. We are ALL Children of The Most High and like most families we bicker a lot !!
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 11:38:23 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3540
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: Corne
Shall we throw the babies out with the bathwater? Do the babies even matter?
You know, I'm so tired of that argument.
It has gotten to the point in the Lakeland movement, that the bath water is so polluted and muddied that we can no longer even see a baby. If there is a baby in there at all (in all my research I haven't determined that there is) and it gets thrown out, that is solely Todd's fault . Had he preached a message based on the Word of God, the baby would have been clearly discerned and people wouldn't have to rip the pipes open to find it.
I agree Kat. This has become a "copout" cliche'.
I posted some time back that in researching all this, I have "thrown out the baby
with the bathwater." And rightly so, because the baby we see is "Rosemary's Baby."
If you know who that is, you date yourself. lol. As in 1969 if I recall correctly.
Rosemary was seduced by Satan and provided a child at the end of the movie.
And to say Bentley professes the "same" Jesus is not unison but the
all inclusive gospel.
As I posted emails from New Zealand, the woman's heart CRY is:
"WHERE ARE THE REAL MEN OF GOD?!"
And I guess I'm being true to my confederate roots to be grouped with
J. Lee Grady in wintery's post.
The evidence has been displayed.
Are we a jury (rightly judging the evidence), or are we a jury (bribed and/or
swayed by our endoctrinations)?
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 11:45:23 AM
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peacebringer
Posts: 220
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Wow, lots of discussion, thread has gotten interesting.
I put together a piece of poetry/prose last night that symbolizes my understanding of some things related to this, NAR and "The River" in general. I would appreciate feedback. http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/2008/07/10/two-rivers/ and if you think I have it off or am completely nuts, let me know. Of course this may just be my fleshly need for feedback and validation but that would be a whole other blog article. 
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 11:45:43 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3540
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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I got an email from a ministry advertising A.L. Gills at a seminar.
I've never heard of him, but I googled him to see if I would recognize
his face. Nope. Not in any of my circles I imagine.
But I found he does endorse Lakeland.
endorsement
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 11:50:14 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3540
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peacebringer
Wow, lots of discussion, thread has gotten interesting.
I put together a piece of poetry/prose last night that symbolizes my understanding of some things related to this, NAR and "The River" in general. I would appreciate feedback. http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/2008/07/10/two-rivers/ and if you think I have it off or am completely nuts, let me know. Of course this may just be my fleshly need for feedback and validation but that would be a whole other blog article.
I liked it.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 11:53:02 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3122
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lbolm
we bicker a lot !!
You call this bickering? Bickering would be a petty argument over something that is not against the essentials of Christianity or is not in direct defiance of God's Word.
That is not what we are doing here. What we are doing here is war...
3 "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ-II Corinthians 10
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 11:54:39 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3669
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From: a mother who let me live
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http://shipoffools.com/borntwice/index.html
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 11:55:34 AM
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laura...
Posts: 2861
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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quote:
I believe that you and TB do worship the same God, but with entirely different views of The Gospel.
Really?! I don't believe that TB worships God at all. I think his "faith" is a complete farce. I believe he is a complete fake. I believe that he "bams" us gullible Christians and then laughs himself all the way to the bank. He's enjoying every minute of abusing believers in the name of "healing" and "baptism".
I watched a few minutes of the baptisms. They looked more like sadistic water violence than baptisms.
He's a fake and he knows it. Reminds me of "An American Tail" where Warren T. Rat, who's paid by the mice to protect them from cats only to discover in the end that Warren was really a cat all along.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 12:10:58 PM
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lbolm
Posts: 53
Joined: 7/7/2008
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Laura,
Please explain to me how you justify this scripture with your statement that TB doesn't worship God?
I am reminded of this one UNIFYING verse
1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. { NO MAN CAN SAY JESUS IS THE LORD, BUT BY THE HOLY GHOST}
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 12:14:12 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3540
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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How to do your "own" Lakeland Outpouring."
revival tips
< Message edited by Lapidoth -- 7/10/2008 12:43:06 PM >
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 12:16:41 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
We need to ALL get to the proper balance of what is the Will of God.
He is going to, afterall, perform and perfect His will, in spite of us or despite of us. With us onboard with Him or not onboard.
Well, as long as we are (all) talking about proper balance, where is the balance at Lakeland? Who gets to say what is and is not balanced, at Lakeland? How can there be such disparity between Christians all brandishing the same Bible? In the language of the day: Somethin's gotta give!
And indeed it has. While I do not believe that every single little thing that happens has to be found well documented in the Bible, I DO believe that God has revealed His nature and His way of enacting with us in the physical realm sufficiently for us to JUDGE whether or not the 'occurences' at Lakeland are holy or unholy. The passive are easily led astray. I strongly disagree with a wait and see attitude. What are you waiting for? Hoping to get a little yourself? I strongly disagree with those who say, well let's just take the good stuff and leave the bad. I strongly disagree with the fact that so-called Christian leadership 'fleeces' the flock and opens the gates for the wolves. I am a sheep who has had the wolves teeth in their flanks and I know a wolf when I see one and smell one. It took my Shepherd many years to heal the wounds inflicted and I am opposed to all who lie and say "See Christ is here." Christ is in heaven.
I am not a prophet, but I understand the principal.
Watch out for false prophets! They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
I know enough to say without hesitation that there is no good thing to be had at Lakeland. Todd Bentley has no power other than that granted him and that, not from God. Nothing wishy washy there and it was not hard to say.
How can someone not know whether or not what is going on at Lakeland is from God or not from God? Wake up!!!!!!!
Love may cover a multitude of sins, but not these.
quote:
I am reminded of this one UNIFYING verse
1 Corinthians 12:3
What is it you are trying to unify?
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 12:28:37 PM
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lbolm
Posts: 53
Joined: 7/7/2008
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solarflare,
I am hearing you and feeling you!
That is why there has to be some balance.
If we get too far one either side of the fence it really gets hard to reach those on the other side. BUt when we walk the straight and narrow line, The Plumbline, it should be easy to reach out to both sides!!
I think the biggest difference seems to be in the methodology that is being used.
The TB approach is definetly not the normal accepted style of your mainline churches. The “wild antics” are overly exemplified by the fact that TB himself is so controversial. His “theology” is definetly mixed up and the more and more people see him, the more and more questions will arise.
TB seems to think that the normal approach to the Gospel doesn’t work anymore and seemingly thinks that it is time for the church to try it differently.
I personaly think that if preaching alone was working, then we would have all been out of here a long time ago. There have been many of good preachers over the last 2000 years. SO from that one standpoint, I agree that there needs to be a revival of the Spirit of God that would bring the complacient members of the Body to a point where they understand that it is not just about them anymore, But about Him and His Will that none should perish. That can only happen when we start looking out of the four walls of the buildings we call church and looking to the highways and the byways, where the rest of the church, the Body, is awaiting to find their home.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 12:32:45 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3540
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lbolm
Laura,
Please explain to me how you justify this scripture with your statement that TB doesn't worship God?
I am reminded of this one UNIFYING verse
1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. { NO MAN CAN SAY JESUS IS THE LORD, BUT BY THE HOLY GHOST}
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Taking the "whole counsel" of God, we have to weigh it with:
Matthew 7:21
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which
is in heaven."
Matthew 7:22
"many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied
in they name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name
done many wonderful works?"
Matthew 7:23
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from
me, ye that work iniquity."
< Message edited by Lapidoth -- 7/10/2008 12:40:31 PM >
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 12:35:19 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3669
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtVGxJU-j2I&feature=related
By the way -- watch it to the end.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 12:43:31 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3540
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
How to do your "own" Lakeland Outpouring."
revival tips
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 12:43:43 PM
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lbolm
Posts: 53
Joined: 7/7/2008
Status: offline
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lapidoth,
your qoute of Matt.7: 21 could also be said about the modern day church who " has the form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof"!!
AGAIN, I am not the enemy here, just trying to bring this whole thing to a balanced discussion.
ALSO, someone was qouting the verse from 2 Cor, about "not warring with flesh and blood". I THINK it would do us all well to remember that it is NOT TB you have a problem with, but whatever spirit resides in him.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 12:47:59 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3540
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lbolm
lapidoth,
your qoute of Matt.7: 21 could also be said about the modern day church who " has the form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof"!!
AGAIN, I am not the enemy here, just trying to bring this whole thing to a balanced discussion.
ALSO, someone was qouting the verse from 2 Cor, about "not warring with flesh and blood". I THINK it would do us all well to remember that it is NOT TB you have a problem with, but whatever spirit resides in him.
We can banter the cliche's back and forth alright.
and you are right, it's not TB but the spirit he operates with.
That DOES NOT give him a pass. He is a false what-ever.
He's not a minister, nor is he a prophet.
So, he would be a false brethren.
We are told to mark such ones and to have nothing to do with them.
And to "call forth" the warning or have the peoples blood on our hands
at judgment.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 12:48:30 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 220
Joined: 5/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: peacebringer
Wow, lots of discussion, thread has gotten interesting.
I put together a piece of poetry/prose last night that symbolizes my understanding of some things related to this, NAR and "The River" in general. I would appreciate feedback. http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/2008/07/10/two-rivers/ and if you think I have it off or am completely nuts, let me know. Of course this may just be my fleshly need for feedback and validation but that would be a whole other blog article.
I liked it.
well I just posted a link to it at Open Heaven forums from there poetry section.
That site makes me sad.
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 7/10/2008 12:54:21 PM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lbolm
lapidoth,
your qoute of Matt.7: 21 could also be said about the modern day church who " has the form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof"!!
AGAIN, I am not the enemy here, just trying to bring this whole thing to a balanced discussion.
ALSO, someone was qouting the verse from 2 Cor, about "not warring with flesh and blood". I THINK it would do us all well to remember that it is NOT TB you have a problem with, but whatever spirit resides in him.
hmmm. That seems to be the crux of the matter. What spirit is in him? If it is a spirit of evil, how can we say "just wait and see"?
What spirits are prevalent at Lakeland? When such a large number of seasoned, deep in the Word believers have nightmares from watching the videos, find things going on that are directly against scripture, I can only conclude that it is NOT the Holy Spirit hanging out in Florida.
I am NOT saying that Christians are not flocking there. That those that go are stupid or unsaved. I truly believe the great deception is gearing up.
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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