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ORIGINAL: tracydolls

I don't struggle with the issue of abortion, It is wrong. but I have come to the realization that it is a law that I can not change, from the looks of it, who can. I wanna talk to Him. Are there other laws on the books I would like to change, yes!!!!

there's an morally wrong law in this country that has been going on for years. Out of the 2 votes I have cast, one was for a local guy that said he was gonna work to change this law.

It's finally getting looked at. This law. Do I like this guys religion, no, I pray he comes to Christ. Like I say that same prayer for myself and everyone.

His name is Keith Ellison, he is a moslem. And a senator from MN.

He is helping to get the law reversed of if you get caught with 1 oz of crack cocaine.vs. 1000 ozs of powder cocaine. You get more time.

A terrible law. a little water and baking soda turns the 1000 ozs. powder into 10000's ozs. of crack. It is crazy.

It was an unjust law. Targeted at blacks. It is hurting our community for young kids to get 30 years, no second chances, to see men leaving home and never coming back. Trying to do what the world is saying: GET money.


do I follow Keith for his theology, No. I follow Christ. do I expect Keith to do his job as a politicion and keep his promises, yes.

I don't trust none of them. I'm not casting a vote this year. I've realized that we are an immoral nation, and noone got the top hat on it.


1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:


At this point I'm in fear.

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Ellison is a true wacko who once said that the Constitution is only for white people.

After 911 he compared it to a staged Nazi event. “It’s almost like the Reichstag fire, kind of reminds me of that. After the Reichstag was burned, they blamed the Communists for it, and it put the leader [Hitler] of that country in a position where he could basically have authority to do whatever he wanted.”

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc


More likely manslaughter, but I'll let you get away with calling it premeditated murder for now.

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In any case, the fact that you don't believe abortion is a right doesn't necessarily mean you have to want the government to make it illegal.

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No- it's a serious question. Many things are more important than life, including freedom. Do we really want the government to have authority over what goes on inside our bodies?

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Only if one can prove the unborn child is willfully attempting to take the mother’s life...

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Exactly, and something that most libertarians also don't want under the US's jurisdiction is our bodies.

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

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ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace

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Well, since it's a human being it must know that it is killing its mother by keeping her pregnant.

What is your purpose in stating this? Are you attempting to deny humanity to unborn children based on this statement? If so, consider the abilities of developmentally disabled individuals who can never have this amount of mental capacity. Are they not human beings? It would seem by your statement that they are not.

I never said it wasn't human.

I just said that if a pregnancy threatens the mother's life, she should have the right to end it under any circumstances. I'm not saying she should end it, but don't you think she should have that option if her other option is to die from medical complications?

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ORIGINAL: lightshineon

I believe God can can change a nation, and nothing is impossible with God. If Christians will stand for what is right there is no limit to what will happen. God always wins.

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ORIGINAL: Evangel70

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Hi, everyone I am more interested in what you think of the Biblical view, everyone is ignoring these verses, I know this is not theology 101, but it is a main and plain question for Christians, I have heard say economic reasons take precedence over moral issues.

Lightshineon, perhaps a little clarification is needed. Are you asking whether or not the bible calls Christians to vote based on certain characteristics?

Because our American political system is secular in nature, we are not voting for a head of the "church" or for some type of pope. We are voting for someone who will uphold the law of the land (which by it's very nature is changable) and abide by the guidelines set forth in our consitutional governmental system. Of course, we want such a leader to be "moral" but he or she must first be competent and qualified for the job. No political role or position will EVER point us to Jesus.

If you read your bible, you will not see a single example where God comanded his people to have a political say in the government of the countries they were in. As Peter, Paul and the early church fathers were planting churches wherever they went, they gave no instructions or commands as to which whom they should have in the Roman senate or which Ceasar they should support. There is a reason for that. The kingdoms of man have NOTHING to do with the kingdom of God.

So what are we to do? Pray that God will give you guidance as to whom to vote for whomever you believe will do the best job. God is ultimately in control anyway so He will always have the last say.

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Christians who support abortion are the intellectual great grandchildren of Christians who suppored slavery.

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The civil government was ordain by God for the sake of order and to the be the minister of God for those who do evil. As well it was establish to allow the church to flourish and deal with the needs of the poor and widows... That being the case it would seem a Christian duty if to vote for folks who uphold those truth, not folks who promise "good times" or <cough> free health care...

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ORIGINAL: rlj

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Christians who support abortion are the intellectual great grandchildren of Christians who suppored slavery.

I'm a direct spiritual descendant of Abraham who owned slaves. I'd be proud to be called a man like David and he owned slaves. Even Paul returned Onesimus to Philemon.

Does this mean Paul was pro-abortion? What about David and Abraham?

Lightshineon- there are no verses that to me apply to how to vote in an election. I know that it doesn't matter who is elected McCain, Clinton, Obama or if some moral christian type (since there are none running now) God is in control and he puts in office who he wants in office. I don't fear any leader or anything else for that matter when it comes to politics.

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ORIGINAL: Evangel70

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The civil government was ordain by God for the sake of order and to the be the minister of God for those who do evil. As well it was establish to allow the church to flourish and deal with the needs of the poor and widows... That being the case it would seem a Christian duty if to vote for folks who uphold those truth, not folks who promise "good times" or <cough> free health care...

So, using your logic, God ordained the governments of Iran, Iraq, China, Somalia, etc. If that is indeed the case, then aren't we going against God's will by tearing down governmental systems in countries we consider "terrorist" or oppressive? How does that align with the rest of God's word?

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I'm a direct spiritual descendant of Abraham who owned slaves. I'd be proud to be called a man like David and he owned slaves. Even Paul returned Onesimus to Philemon.

Does this mean Paul was pro-abortion? What about David and Abraham?

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God is in control and he puts in office who he wants in office. I don't fear any leader or anything else for that matter when it comes to politics.

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David was a murderer. But he only murdered one person and he wasn't an advocate for murdering others. Christians who support abortion are not satisfied with one murder. 50 million since Death Roe and they want more.

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Thou shalt not murder a child by abortion, nor again shalt thou kill it when it is born.

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ORIGINAL: rlj

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David was a murderer. But he only murdered one person and he wasn't an advocate for murdering others. Christians who support abortion are not satisfied with one murder. 50 million since Death Roe and they want more.

You were going off on one of your tangents and making comparisons that have nothing to do with any reality. Since those people I mentioned owned slaves or had no objections to slavery did that make them pro abortion? Yes abortion probably did exist at the time of Paul and definately existed in the early 2nd century since some of the early church fathers mention it. So since Paul clearly had no qualms against slavery does that mean he was pro abortion? You did bring the topic up in this thread and I am curious to hear your response.

Barnabas 19:5

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Thou shalt not murder a child by abortion, nor again shalt thou kill it when it is born.

This is one example and I am fully aware that it isn't scripture. The timing of this alleged "epistle" is thought to be in the 2nd century as opposed to the first but it isn't known for sure.

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ljmac

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Christians who support abortion, like those who supported slavery, support cruel, abusive practices against innocent human beings. One difference is that slave owners didn't murder their slaves.

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One difference is that slave owners didn't murder their slaves.

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How many more million need to die before you say you've had enough,

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ORIGINAL: strangeharmony

My husband and I have been single-issue voters for years - how could we support anyone that supported abortions?

We have, however, changed the way we vote significantly, and feel compromised, but less compromised than when we felt voting on the single issue.

We have spent more time than ever in the last four years working with inner-city youth, and have seen nothing but budget cuts (in all the wrong places) from the republican party mindset.

It has been studied and concluded that, historically, the stance of the president on abortion has had no affect on it being legal or not.

Illegalizing abortion is unfortunately not in very close reach at the moment.

Therefore, who will do more to prevent unwanted pregnancies to happen? Imagine, instead of putting most of our energy into a fight that doesn't seem to be going anywhere (though it is worth fighting for) we can actually save more lives from abortion by educating people before they get pregnant.

That's our response for the legal abortion issue today. We voted democratic for the first time in our lives. We feel a little dirty, but do think our country would be better off.

Having a president who has a better understanding of what the streets are like and plans to act on improving those societies is the most hopeful for social change.

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

Of course... And to be fair lets make all murder legal... Since the way to stopping something isn't having it be against the law...

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No one has the true authority to take life without cause, and when you can figure out what crime to charge the unborn with by all means post it.

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The government is ordained by God to keep order and to deal with those who do evil(see Romans 13) and killing the unborn is without a doubt an evil thing...

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By all means continue this line of thought... Make you argument against the unborn... Lay it all out... How far are you willing to go to support the murder of the unborn?

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Well.. if they going to be consistant they need to support all killing being legal...

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

The government's job is to maintain order, not make things fair or moral.

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But should the government have the authority to stop a woman from killing something that is killing her, at the very least?

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Dealing with those who do evil is an outcome of maintaining order.

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I think that what happens inside your body should only be between you and God.

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Sure, if I get inside your body, the government shouldn't pass laws about whether you can kill me or not- in the same way that if I tresspass on your property, you can generally shoot me.

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ORIGINAL: tracydolls

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One difference is that slave owners didn't murder their slaves.

Where did you get the lie from? Uncle tom was murdered by his slave master, this is like so well known.....

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How many more million need to die before you say you've had enough,

I say stop it today, and..............

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ORIGINAL: strangeharmony

My husband and I have been single-issue voters for years - how could we support anyone that supported abortions?

We have, however, changed the way we vote significantly, and feel compromised, but less compromised than when we felt voting on the single issue.

We have spent more time than ever in the last four years working with inner-city youth, and have seen nothing but budget cuts (in all the wrong places) from the republican party mindset.

It has been studied and concluded that, historically, the stance of the president on abortion has had no affect on it being legal or not.

Illegalizing abortion is unfortunately not in very close reach at the moment.

Therefore, who will do more to prevent unwanted pregnancies to happen? Imagine, instead of putting most of our energy into a fight that doesn't seem to be going anywhere (though it is worth fighting for) we can actually save more lives from abortion by educating people before they get pregnant.

That's our response for the legal abortion issue today. We voted democratic for the first time in our lives. We feel a little dirty, but do think our country would be better off.

Having a president who has a better understanding of what the streets are like and plans to act on improving those societies is the most hopeful for social change.

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ORIGINAL: ljmac

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ORIGINAL: strangeharmony

My husband and I have been single-issue voters for years - how could we support anyone that supported abortions?

We have, however, changed the way we vote significantly, and feel compromised, but less compromised than when we felt voting on the single issue.

We have spent more time than ever in the last four years working with inner-city youth, and have seen nothing but budget cuts (in all the wrong places) from the republican party mindset.

It has been studied and concluded that, historically, the stance of the president on abortion has had no affect on it being legal or not.

Illegalizing abortion is unfortunately not in very close reach at the moment.

Therefore, who will do more to prevent unwanted pregnancies to happen? Imagine, instead of putting most of our energy into a fight that doesn't seem to be going anywhere (though it is worth fighting for) we can actually save more lives from abortion by educating people before they get pregnant.

That's our response for the legal abortion issue today. We voted democratic for the first time in our lives. We feel a little dirty, but do think our country would be better off.

Having a president who has a better understanding of what the streets are like and plans to act on improving those societies is the most hopeful for social change.

Perhaps your conscience, or the Holy Spirit, is getting to you. That may be why you feel "dirty," in your words. You've aligned yourself politically with people who believe it should be legal to suck the brains out of a live baby.

The next time you're with the "inner-city youth", ask youself how many of their classmates have been disembowled or decapitated by people that make you feel "dirty."

Black children have long been targeted by birth control and abortion zealots. Planned Parenthood recently twice got caught on tape cheerfully accepting money that was specifically targeted to abort black children. They carry on the sick desires of PP's founder, Margaret Sanger, who had her Negro Progect to suppress the black population. It isn't an accident that as the skin color of a neighborhood gets darker, the number of abortuaries increases.

Neither Obama or Clinton has a clue about "the streets." HRC grew up in the suburbs and went to an all girls school. Obama lived with his white family in Hawii. They have something else in common, they both believe it should be legal to suck the brains out of a baby.