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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/22/2008 9:50:23 PM
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magdaleine
Posts: 5108
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Yeah. It is.
I just realized that someone might misunderstand which blog/website I closed. It's the www.magdaleine.com one, not the blog I started this past January.
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/22/2008 9:51:00 PM
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slushie
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Thank you! It's good to be back! I checked it out. I remember reading it and being intrigued by it a long long time ago...
Wait. How come you and your dh go to different churches?
So in our discussion in the youth group today, there were two questions.
1) Is being gay a sin?
2) Is gay marriage wrong?
These came from one boy whom I've grown up with the church although we haven't been especially close. He said he was "kinda" gay. We sort of danced around the question for a while. No one (especially me. I guess I just didn't know the right words to say so I wouldn't offend anyone) really knew what to say - if they believed that being gay was wrong, and that God frowned upon it, they didn't want to talk.
The majority of the people who spoke believed that God created some people gay and some people not. (the funny thing was that all the people who believed that were 7th graders.
We went into a discussion on whether gayness was a product of the environment or if there was a gay gene.
Someone mentioned that it was hard to say when none of us knew what it was like to be gay - or without knowing a homosexual person personally.
Then after a while, my friend Ailin and my friend Sinclair and my youth pastor said that the Bible stated that homosexual acts were sin. My youth pastor also said that it was just a sinful to hate gay people as to be a practicing homosexual. Correct? Homosexuality is a sin - so is lying, cheating, and hating people. So is pride. God created man and woman for each other, and to do something that God definitely didn't design us for is a sin.
Jesus died to set us free from the bondage of sin. No sin is worse than the other in that God views all sin as what it is -sin. Some sins might have farther reaching consequences. Nevertheless, Jesus died for ALL sin.
Guess that's it....
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/23/2008 12:08:32 AM
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magdaleine
Posts: 5108
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quote:
How come you and your dh go to different churches?
Dh never came to church while we were raising our kids. When he finally did start, he decided he didn't like the church I had raised the kids in and went to find one he preferred. And actually, he wouldn't stay at any particular one. So when it was time for me to change churches, I chose what fit the spiritual direction in which I was going.
quote:
We sort of danced around the question for a while.
I think that many adults are very uncomfortable with the topic of homosexuality--partly because they themselves aren't sure what to think. I like the way your pastor answered. It is the homosexual ACT that is a sin, not the desire/hunger/temptation/disposition to want to do it and yes, it is no worse than other, more socially accepted sins such as pride, gossip, greed, hatred. Sadly, Christians have done some horrid, horrid things to homosexuals which has turned the gay community as a whole totally against Christianity. When AIDS started to surface, had Christians gathered around those so infected and loved them, helped them, it would have made a huge impact. Instead, everyone treated AIDS patients as though they had the plague and, to make it worse, there were angry Christians who were downright cruel in what they thought were expressions of righteous indignation. It's no wonder that homosexuals want nothing to do with Christianity.
quote:
1) Is being gay a sin?
2) Is gay marriage wrong?
Is being gay a sin? I guess that depends on how you define "gay." There are many who consider themselves homosexual who have chosen a life of abstenance and chastity. Are they sinning because they consider themselves homosexuals? Some would say yes and others would say no. To me, the sin comes in the act, not the desire or propensity or leaning towards the act. If being tempted means a person is sinning then we have to conclude that Jesus sinned but the Bible is very clear that 1) Jesus was tempted and 2) Jesus did not sin. In fact, the Bible says that Jesus was tempted in every way that we are. That tells me that Jesus probably experienced temptation to act out homosexually. I know many would be aghast at this statement but it seems to me a logical conclusion--aided and abetted by a Christian writer who I greatly admire--John White, whose books were published by IVP (Inter-Varsity Press).
Is gay marriage wrong? Well, marriage usually implies sexual intimacy so, if homosexual acts are sin, then they would be sin regardless of whether or not the government and/or society has sanctioned those relationships by a legal ceremony and documents.
Should Christians be actively trying to prevent the legalization of homosexual behaviour and marriage? That's a whole different kettle of fish. The argument is that since we live in democratic countries, we have the right to influence government and that is true. Especially in the US, that is an integral part of what it means to be American. And there are good reasons to try and keep the country a safe place to raise children. Bible-believing Christians don't want their children to grow up with the idea that homosexuality is just another accepted form of marriage--something that many schools are now promoting. They don't want to be faced with the possibility of having a homosexual couple living next door or across the street. And there's some fairness in that.
On the other hand, why do we choose homosexuality as the sin to abhor, decry and illegalize? Why not adultery--a sin that is rampant amongst Christians--or greed or pride? These sins are far more devious because they're already so accepted we are hardly able to identify them. So we think that the more we fight against homosexuality, the more we're likely to inspire them to leave that lifestyle and choose Christianity? Hardly!
What is our mandate as Christians? Is it to condemn those in obvious sin and make laws to keep them from sinning? I think not. If, as a Christian, I am unable to do what I know I should do without the help of the Holy Spirit, on what basis can I charge non-believers to do what is right? To me, it seems that our goal is to bring people AS THEY ARE and introduce them to Jesus and then trust him to do what only he can do--convict man of what is pleasing to God and then enabling him to do it.
I think it's awesome that your youth group is willing to look at these issues and wrestle with them. You are welcome to use whatever I've written in my threads or blogs for your discussions. Another source of information is Exodus International: http://www.exodus-international.org/ which has a portion of its website dedicated to youth: http://exodusyouth.net/youth/index.html If the discussion continues, I'd love to hear how it goes--if you're willing.
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/23/2008 10:48:00 AM
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slushie
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Henry said that. He said that he believes that homosexual acts are a sin - and so is sexual promiscuity. The majority, even some of my so called Christian friends, look at that and say it's ok. So why pick on homosexuals more than sexual promiscious people? It's unjust. It's unfair. I don't believe that God would want us to look at a sin like that. And it's so true that Christians have treated homosexuals and people suffering from AIDs like the plagues.
I agree with you.
I read this last night in my biology textbook. My biology textbook is secular, btw. As if that should make a difference. Anyhow, it said that homosexuals are more susceptible to HIV. But it ALSO said that people with a lot of partners have the highest rate of increase!
What scared me was the little girl (7th graders) who believed that gay marriage should be legalized and that it was just another form of marriage... she was obviously naive - but...
I'll let you know how the discussion goes if it continues!
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/24/2008 2:20:10 AM
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magdaleine
Posts: 5108
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Thanks for sharing that, Slushi!
quote:
Henry said that. He said that he believes that homosexual acts are a sin - and so is sexual promiscuity. ... So why pick on homosexuals more than sexual promiscuous people? It's unjust. It's unfair.
Yes. Exactly. But there is a danger: when we say that all sins are equal, what we tend do is bring them all into the level of acceptability. Instead, what we should be doing is raising our abhorrence of the more acceptable sins.
quote:
What scared me was the little girl (7th graders) who believed that gay marriage should be legalized and that it was just another form of marriage...
I don't find that surprising at all. First of all "family" is one of the earliest social studies topics in school and most public school curriculum has been rewritten to present every form of "family" including homosexual couples. Unless children are informed otherwise, they have no reason to doubt what they were taught in school.
The other part of that is that people focus on the love aspect of relationship. If God is love, they might reason, then surely any loving relationship is okay. And there are model couples in the gay community who are "pulled out" of privacy to prove the point. One of the first lesbian couples to be "married" in California, for instance, are in their mid to late eighties and have been together for over 50 years. Shouldn't they be allowed the rights that heterosexuals have who have been together for far shorter lengths of time? This is the argument and it makes sense until you factor God into the picture. It doesn't matter how loving or how stable a relationship is. If it's out of God's will then it's out of God's will.
One of the more shocking stories in the Bible (in my opinion) is in Ezra where God's people have returned from captivity and beginning to rebuild their homeland. It comes to the attention of the leaders that there are many Jewish men who are married to non-Jewish women. There's no indication of when these marriages took place, so I'm guessing that there would be new marriages, 50-year-old marriages and everything in between. These marriages were outside of God's purpose for his people. He had told them they were to be holy, set apart, and that meant that they were not to marry those who did not descend from Jacob. And indeed, much of Israel's and Judah's apostasy was the result of bringing pagan wives into their lives. Now, after the captivity, it was important for the people to start right by living right and so all these wives and their children were sent packing. Certainly there would have been much love in many of those marriages but the marriages broke God's law and will for his people and so the women were divorced and sent away. There isn't even any discussion about if the women chose to convert to Judaism. They were out and gone. Period.
I think that story illustrates well the principle that just because there is love, stability and harmony in a relationship it doesn't mean the relationship is something honoured by God.
I do tend to go on a bit, don't I?
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/24/2008 8:56:09 AM
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slushie
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I think you're right. Actually the little girl (I don't know her, never saw her before in my life) brought that up. She said that if now God says that interracial marriages are ok now but weren't back then, then surely homosexual marriages would be ok. She said that gay marriage should be ok because it's "love! It's love! Two souls joining into one!" I don't mean to put down her viewpoint but you're right. If it's not what God wants and means for us to do, then it's not.
Is there really stability in marriages like that? I've read a bunch of articles about how sometimes there's a lot of tension... but I don't know if that's true.
We as Christians shouldn't be putting down gay people.... I mean, who are we to cast a stone? I do agree that many Christians either say that it's ok, or that gay people should be shot down. Both ways are wrong.
Did you hear that Ellen DeGeneres was getting married to her partner?
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/24/2008 9:16:15 AM
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noblesinger
Posts: 869
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From: "Almost Heaven"
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Slushie, if you see this girl again, you should explain to her that when God was forbidding interracial marriages, it was actually a ban on marriage to unbelievers (much the same as non-Christians and Christians today). That was the truth of what the Bible was saying. Sorry if I'm intruding on your discussion with Maggie, but I just had to give you that little bit of info.
Hello, Maggs! And hello to everyone else; Dove, Pengie, et. al. Sorry I've not been here in awhile, but I been kept hopping. My mother spent 9 days in the hospital so they could get all of the edema out of her legs. I'm not saying that she was full of fluid, but her ankles were as big around as my calves (probably 12"). That was just plain danger level. They finally got it down to almost nothing, then sent her to a Transitional Care facility to give her some physical therapy so she could function better at home by herself. That will be a great relief to me when she's released, but until then it's a real headache.
Gotta run.
Duane
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"...the worth and excellency of a soul is to be measured by the object of its love." - Henry Scougal, The Life of God in the Soul of Man
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/24/2008 4:21:15 PM
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slushie
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Duane, thanks! I appreciate that. I don't think she reads the Bible - I don't know if I'll see her again. Don't even know her name... :( But you're right!
Pretty flowers, Shaunii!!!
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/24/2008 5:40:58 PM
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magdaleine
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Duane is right, Slushie. The ban wasn't on inter-racial marriages but rather against God's people uniting with those who were not God's people. In otherwords, believers with non-believers.
I am sure there are many same-sex couples who have a lot of stability in their relationship. My mom's cousin is one. He's been with the same man since his youth--so probably getting close to 40 years or so. Homosexuals like security just as much as anyone else. Yes, many same-sex couples have a lot of tension but so do heterosexual couples. Tension in relationships of any kind seems to be the lot of humans--a result of the fall.
I agree, both extremes--saying homosexual behaviour is right and honourable and trying to "shoot down" homosexuals--are wrong.
No, I hadn't heard about Ellen DeGeneres. Doesn't surprise me though.
Hi Duane! You're not intruding. I'm glad someone else is jumping in. I love discussion. I'm sorry to hear about your mom. Yikes about her ankles! I'm glad they were able to get the swelling down.
quote:
If it wasn't for you and a few others I'd probably leave CW altogether... I don't really surf it or read anywhere but here these days... I don't even really update my own thread...
Awww, Shaunii! I'm honoured. I do appreciate keeping in touch with you.
Fiction is a lot of fun to read but I think I'm getting to the saturation point. I'm on my tenth novel since surgery on the 12th. That's not quite one a day. But they sure do keep me from doing much, which, it seems is a good thing. I spent an hour yesterday tidying the bedroom (and dh actually noticed and thanked me) and I had no trouble doing the work but when the hour was over I was completely wasted and I needed 12 hours of sleep last night to recover. So I guess I'll make it my goal to read all the fiction I put aside for my recovery time and simply enjoy. I do want to write reports about each book in my blog but there's always something else I want to do more, so I've only reviewed the first two books.
I'm having trouble seeing the photos. Do I have to register to see them?
Well it looks like I've used up all my Employment Insurance benefits. The man on the phone was very helpful, however, and gave me numbers to call to see what's available for me now.
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/25/2008 9:43:03 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10938
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From: Lone Star State
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Maggie, post 303 was just plain awesome!
(((Maggie)))
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/25/2008 10:52:46 AM
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magdaleine
Posts: 5108
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Thank you, Ben.
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/25/2008 1:39:19 PM
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cherish405
Posts: 32316
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From: The Land Down Under
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((((((((((((((((((((((((MAGGIE))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/25/2008 8:14:37 PM
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magdaleine
Posts: 5108
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Thanks for the hug, Trish.
Shaunii, what I get when I click on the link is page that is solid black. There's a right sidebar with links and info but nothing but black on the bulk of the page. At the top left corner it says "slide" in big blue letters. Over to the right of the main area are two small links. One says "Gallery View" and the other, "Original Size." I've clicked both and get nothing. Further down and in the centre is a small rectangle with "0 Comments" written in it. Clicking that doesn't get me anything either. At the very bottom of the page to the left is a place to leave comments but nothing else. In the sidebar, there is a link with your handle. I click that and get a white page called "My Flowers" but again, nothing there except your photo in the left sidebar. What have a missed?
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/25/2008 8:30:16 PM
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magdaleine
Posts: 5108
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Congratulations, Darcy! That's awesome! I'd LOVE to go back to school and finish my degree but I have so many interests I haven't a clue what I would take.
Will your week on the Appalachian Trail take you through the Smokey Mountains? While we were at the summit/pass of the Smokey Mountains, we saw a couple of very serious and well-equipped hikers who, it looked like, had been and would be on the trail for a long time. It was kind of cool.
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/25/2008 8:52:39 PM
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magdaleine
Posts: 5108
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I thought they might be. Good for you about even considering the Masters! Do you have an idea of what you plan to do with your education once you're done?
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/26/2008 3:44:32 PM
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cherish405
Posts: 32316
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From: The Land Down Under
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Maggie, just letting you know that I've posted a little something about DeeDee in her thread if you're interested.
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/26/2008 4:08:31 PM
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magdaleine
Posts: 5108
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Hey Sam! Good to see you! Yeah, kids are exposed to a lot of things and it's not just TV. It's in their classrooms. Our local school board is very and unabashedly pro-gay. All teachers (maybe all staff) have to take an anti-homophobia course and when the division discovered that one of the church camps many schools use for Outdoor Ed had a policy of not having homosexual groups use the camp, it made a ruling that all camps with such rules were not to be used by the schools. There are a lot of things kids face now that we didn't have to. But I wonder if it's been like that for every generation. Things get progressively worse.
Darcy, what a great goal! Awesome! Way to go!
Tonight is the first night of the women's small group that's starting at my church that I expressed interest in a couple of months ago. I'm looking forward to it. It will give me a chance to get to know more people--though I suspect the group will start off very small. I'm thinking that if I ever had the opportunity to be in charge of Women's Ministries in this church (there isn't one right now), I would take it. I would enjoy the challenge. But not yet. I think I have to get my mind well first--if that's possible. Okay, all things are possible with God so it is possible.
Sometimes I wonder why I need to keep seeing a psychiatrist and at other times I wonder, as above, if I'll ever stop needing one--or why no one thought to send me to one years ago. I guess I would have resisted the suggestion, certain that nothing was wrong with me.
Relationships--of all kinds--are a real problem for me. I seem to go to extremes on either side of the middle. If a problem arises, I think my world is falling apart. And when things are good, I'm far too dependent on that. I've been asking myself questions but have no answers, though I think I haven't yet allowed myself the time to find them. I keep asking myself, "Who am I? What is important to me? What parts of me are truly me and what parts are there simply because I wanted to be praised, acknowledged, appreciated, whatever? I think there are lots of me that fit that latter description. Maybe I'm afraid to find out which parts of me that is.
I'm rambling and making no sense.
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/26/2008 4:14:31 PM
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magdaleine
Posts: 5108
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Trish, I just saw your post. Thank you. I AM interested. I've been wondering how she is. It's been forever since I've "seen" her.
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 6/26/2008 4:26:20 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10938
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From: Lone Star State
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I must be in trouble. Your rambling made perfect sense. 
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