I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (Full Version)

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fribjits -> I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 1:31:54 AM)

So my whole life I've been told by parents that being a christian was the most important thing, because if I didn't believe in god and Jesus, I'd go to hell. Well obviously I didn't want that so I went along with it and have stayed a christain through my life through high school. It was fairly easy because almost lal my friends were christains as wlel and I went to church every other week.

However, I'm in college now and all of the sudden I'm learning all sorts of new things. These new things unfortunately are detriment to my faith. Things like geologic record, or philosophy about the universe, and cognitice thinking and and etc seem to poke holes in religion in general.

Also, almost all of my new college friends are atheists or agnostic, and they make exteremely convinccing arguments towards the non-existence of god. I have trouble because I can't really back up my faith with science or logic really.

Back in high school my friends were mostly christian and good natured, sure there was a nut or to...but so far a lot of the christains I see in college are foul mouthed drinkers and just not good examples at all.

Also today, we were having a debate and a friend turned to me and said "Yea, (my name) you're a christain aren't ya?" this was said while having a deeply intellectual and philosophical discussion and he was saying it in a sort of condescending tone and I cracked under pressure and said. "No, I'm agnostic."

It felt really bad to verbally deny my faith like that but...I dunno. I'm having trouble grasping the concept of god and Jesus and all. Science is really kicking creationism's butt as far as I can tell with evidence and what not and I'm not sure what to do. Simply believing in god for the sake of believeing isn't going to cut it for me anymore, I need facts or answers. i'd love to be a knowlegedable christian but I don' know where to turn...

Because it's occured to me that I don't really feel god's whole presence withing me. I mean, I 've prayed to him EVERY night since I was like...10 but I don't think I've ever felt him or recieved any answer from him.

So I'm just realy lost, and slowly losing my faith. So i decided to ask you people as well as an atheist forum to see what you say....



Pidge -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 3:20:57 AM)

The important thing is the relationship with Christ.
You are emerging from an inherited faith into one in that is your own.
Look around for someone who you can see Christ working through, explain your doubts to that person and ask for prayers.



BibleBased -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 4:36:39 AM)

fribjits - you can read my position on faith and churches in this section, and it may help you? You suggest that your faith is reliant on what the priest says, whether you are saved or not and having friends around you that believe the same thing.
I went to a church school. Only one boy in our class attended the weekly mass on a wednesday morning and sadly it wasn't me. I went to church 3 times every sunday because my parents made me and 'thought' i had faith. I knew the better know bible stories, i thought i knew the bible but i barely knew little bits of it - the bible was never opened during the week in our house, despite my dad being a lay preacher, taking services and sermons.
At about 13, when i was big enough to refuse to go, i left the church. I wasted nearly 17 years doing whatever i wanted, not giving a stuff about church.

Then i started reading best selling books attacking the bible. I enjoyed them showing how stupid the bible was and how stupid christians are. After awhile i started reading the bible, only so i could ENJOY the other books more. This is where my life began to change. I started to see the 'quotes' were taken out of context, or deliberately misunderstood. The people attacking scripture never agreed either. Little by little, the bible made sense and the other books didn't and eventually i stopped reading the other books and continued daily reading the bible - 10 years later i still read the bible daily.
I occassionally buy those best selling books that knock the bible and i could easily take a red pen and correct them like teachers do from page one to the end. It is satan the devil fooling those who don't read the bible and know God's will. YOU HAVE TO BE 'D A I L Y' in the BIBLE!

Returning to your problem. What is needed by you is a self examination. What is your faith? Do you believe the bible, do you even know what it says, have you read it ALL? Do you believe that eternal life only comes through Jesus Christ and that rejecting him is rejecting eternal life.
The priest/ minister CAN'T give you eternal life or TAKE IT AWAY. He can't tell you if you have it or not either. I have fallen into this trap and so have many other christians, and some have even lost their faith because of their minister!

I think you do believe in God, the one true God/ Jesus Christ. And i'm certainly not going to critise you for being afraid and saying the wrong thing. Have i always stood up for our Lord, or have i keep quiet and let him down - too often i have let him down, daily in fact.

My advise is get into the bible alone and in private. Every day read a chapter, 2 if possible. It takes 20 mins? Bed time perhaps or any time when you can be alone with God. Read the Word of God and ask yourself do i believe this? God who wrote the rules of science that non believers so rely on, breaks those rules whenever he pleases, because he is not bound by them.

Let me finish with 2 fantastic examples to help your faith. The flood. Every civilisation on earth has a flood story in its history despite the fact that people couldn't cross seas or travel very far thousands of years ago. Also there is enough water to cover mount Everest by 10-15 meters, to cover the whole earth to a hight of 10-15 meters higher than mount Everest!
Adam - could all people come from one man? French scientists took DNA from all over the earth and compared it. Do you know they came to the conclusion that we all come from only 3 people! That is excellent science? I'm just waiting for their skill and knowledge to improve and then they'll catch up with us Christians who believe what God says that we all come from one -ADAM!

Please personal message me. I can be a daily source of support. I will read the bible, study with you, if you'd like that. There are no wonderful christians out there. They all doubt, they all turn away, they all let Jesus/ God down daily. Jesus surrounded himself with people like YOU. Peter denied him 3 times and told Jesus not to talk the way he was, the brothers had huge egos and wanted to be either side of Jesus in heaven, Judas stole money and then helped have him killed, all the apostle didn't believe the women he had risen and their understanding of Jesus was poor at best even thought they were with him daily!

Guess YOUR position is similar to Jesus's best friends - which is a fantastic place to be! Be my friend? Personal message me and we can begin walking together.



mvic -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 8:26:00 AM)

Hi fribjits,

It is natural for someone as young as you to question what you have been taught and to doubt. There is nothing wrong in that. It is also natural, for some people, to loose Faith altogether and not to believe in God, Christ or any of the religious stuff they have been taught by their parents or teachers. This is youth developing, learning and questionning.

The important thing though is what comes next. Some people who move away from the Faith never come back to it.

Others though, as time goes by and as experiences shape their lives, re-discover God. Their new found Faith is not only stronger as a result but it also helps shape the lives of others. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about here ... but to give you a well known example - look at how St Paul found his Faith and how he used it.

So how about you? You're questionning and you've even denied your Faith (like St Peter did - and look at what happened to him). I suggest you stay calm. Don't feel ashamed or worried. Approach a pastor, minister or such like person you can trust and discuss your feelings. If you can, join a Bible Study group.

It is natural to question and doubt. With ever advancing technology and science there's plenty of opportunities for others to put doubts in our minds. Why, even the devil might avail himself of the opportunity to confuse us.

Final advice: Pray. Don't repeat well rehearsed prayers. Just speak to God in your own words. Say to God that you have doubts and ask Him to help you through them. He will not let you down. It's not in His interest to loose his followers. Be really honest with Him and He'll come to your rescue.

God bless.



psende -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 8:39:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fribjits

So my whole life I've been told by parents that being a christian was the most important thing, because if I didn't believe in god and Jesus, I'd go to hell. Well obviously I didn't want that so I went along with it and have stayed a christain through my life through high school. It was fairly easy because almost lal my friends were christains as wlel and I went to church every other week.


Did you "go along with it," or did you actually become a Christian through repentance of sin and confession of Christ? If you know Christ as Savior, please understand that belonging to Him not only keeps you from hell, but also empowers you, through the Holy Spirit, to live your life in a way that will result in higher character, greater joy, and stronger fiber than is possible without Christ-to the dismay and ridicule of many who reject truth.

quote:

However, I'm in college now and all of the sudden I'm learning all sorts of new things. These new things unfortunately are detriment to my faith. Things like geologic record, or philosophy about the universe, and cognitice thinking and and etc seem to poke holes in religion in general.


You have had a privileged youth! That's something to be thankful for. Until adulthood, your upbringing and choice of friends have kept you from many evils that create havoc in individual lives. The down-side of this is that there has been little urgency for Christian disciplines like prayer and the study of God's word. Thus you have been left unprepared for the onslaught that is now coming upon you. Be cognizant of the fact that there truly is a spiritual realm in which battles are fought for our allegiances. Because of the earthly power that can be possessed through education, today's colleges have become battlegrounds for ideas and spiritual battlegrounds for authority. They become places that cast doubt upon the bedrock upon which our lives should be built-the ultimate authority of God and His word.

In the end, you will have to decide the foundation you build your house upon. But don't let yourself be swayed by arguments that are based on an assumption of the non-existence of God or by people who try to make you feel small because of your faith in Christ.

quote:

Also, almost all of my new college friends are atheists or agnostic, and they make exteremely convinccing arguments towards the non-existence of god. I have trouble because I can't really back up my faith with science or logic really.


You know, the Bible does nothing to try to convince us of God's existence. It assumes His existence and so should we. Most, if not all civilizations over the millennia have assumed the existence of, if not God, some being of ultimate authority that is not fully understood on a human level. If one can be caused to doubt God's authority or existence, arguments can persuade quite easily. After all, there has to be some explanation for being. It is doubt that Satan used to bring about the Fall of Humankind as he Asked Eve, "Has God indeed said, 'you shall not eat of every tree of the garden?'" followed by the false assurance, "you shall not die." It is, likewise, doubt in what you have known as truth that makes God's non-existence to be plausible to you.

It is good to realize that science can explain neither the existence nor non-existence of God. Many of the so-called, "scientific" explanations of existence are rooted in the assumption of God's non-existence. Thus,
the arguments you hear, on both sides, come down to an explanation of evidence based upon one assumption or the other.

That is not to say that one cannot examine the evidence provided and make conclusions, good or bad. (I am convinced that if examined fairly, the evidence will lead one to conclude that God is. C.S. Lewis, Josh McDowell, and others-once atheists, have done just that and have written about their journeys.)

quote:

Back in high school my friends were mostly christian and good natured, sure there was a nut or to...but so far a lot of the christains I see in college are foul mouthed drinkers and just not good examples at all.


Many of them have grown up just like you: they have done the "Christian" thing because it was the thing to do. Now, there are no restraints on them. Being unprepared for the world and having little strength to
stand against it, they find themselves unable or unwilling to restrain themselves. As maturity comes, things will sort themselves out. Others, are just showing their true colors.

Don't think that you are alone though. Among those kids, are those waiting for someone to show themselves "strong in the Lord" so they can join them.

Fear of being alone and ridiculed is a big deterrent to doing the right thing.

quote:

Also today, we were having a debate and a friend turned to me and said "Yea, (my name) you're a christain aren't ya?" this was said while having a deeply intellectual and philosophical discussion and he was saying it in a sort of condescending tone and I cracked under pressure and said. "No, I'm agnostic."

It felt really bad to verbally deny my faith like that


Matthew tells us that, after denying Jesus, Peter "went out and wept bitterly." But Jesus had prayed that Peter's faith would not fail. After returning, Peter became the one who strengthened the other disciples.

quote:

but...I dunno. I'm having trouble grasping the concept of god and Jesus and all. Science is really kicking creationism's butt as far as I can tell with evidence and what not and I'm not sure what to do.


Conclusions based on the assumption that God is not, are wrong conclusions, however convincingly they can be declared. If one looks at the same evidence with the assumption that God is, conclusions will be made that are closer to the truth and, not only will they give you a profound appreciation for the infinite characteristics of God, but they will also ignite your faith.

quote:

Simply believing in god for the sake of believeing isn't going to cut it for me anymore, I need facts or answers. i'd love to be a knowlegedable christian but I don' know where to turn...

Because it's occured to me that I don't really feel god's whole presence withing me. I mean, I 've prayed to him EVERY night since I was like...10 but I don't think I've ever felt him or recieved any answer from him.


You can know. Ask God for help. Ask Him to show himself to you; not so you can outwit the naysayers, but so that you can know Christ more. There is a place of knowing that defies explanation, and causes us to
stand with truth no matter what. Romans 8:16 tells us that God's Spirit "bears witness with our spirit that we are sons of God." You simply "know." I pray that you will quickly find that place .

quote:

So I'm just realy lost, and slowly losing my faith. So i decided to ask you people as well as an atheist forum to see what you say....


You don't sound lost. You sound mixed-up, discouraged, as well as feeling a bit alone and not wanting to appear foolish. That's why you're here. Inside, you know your parents have not deceived you. You know that you were well brought-up. You know right living when you see it. But like you said; your faith has never had confrontation, so you are being tossed about by these things. Seek to know Christ more and the inner turmoil will give way to strength, and you will then be able to stand firmly on your own two feet, knowing without doubt.



JMCrwd -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 8:42:07 AM)

I know some of what you are going through. I have felt like nothing makes sense when it comes othe Bible or my faith. Several years ago I thought I was saved and was doing alright, but I fell away from God. Three and a half years ago after my divorce I felt I was going crazy so I joined a small church where I lived to try to find out what it was Iwas missing. Again I thought I was doing just fine but just a few months ago the Lord showed me I wasn't doing as good as I thought I was. Before the Lord showed me I wasn't doing right the devil never really bothered me. Now is a totally different story. Every day I have a fight with the devil who tells me I don't really belive in the Lord, I am dying and going to hell,etc. My pastor and several people have told me that the devil will not bother you if he has already got you, but that he will torment youall the more the closer you get to God. Enough with my rambling, I just felt I had to tell part of my story.
But for your feelings of having denied our faith-- didn't Jesus tell Peter that Peter would deny him three times before the rooster crowed? I believe you are just being tested as we all are at one time or another. Yes it's scary and very unsettling but it wiil make you stronger.
As far as arguing with them about the Bible, read your Bible and pray that when someone wants to argue or discuss different opinions with you God will give you just what you need to say when you need to say it. Just stay roted in your Bible. I am more like a new believer than most here but I have recieved some very good advice from alot of fellow Christians that at the time i think doesn't make sense or I wonder how does that apply to me? But when I need it the most God brings it to my mind. Above all just keep praying, it may seem like God isn't listening ,but He is.



GeorgiaNerd -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 10:50:19 AM)

Fribjits, your story is almost identical to mine. Eventually, I did end up losing my faith completely and am now an agnostic atheist. Like you, I didn't learn about the scientific and logical arguments until college, and they did make more sense to me than the Christian arguments. Also, like you I never really had that personal revelation from the Christian god, though I did at times think that the "holy spirit" was guiding me. The catalyst for my complete loss of faith was the denial of this personal revelation. So, perhaps you should ask for one in prayer time. Also, educate yourself even more through the literature on both sides of the argument. I don't tell people what the right choice for them is, but rather encourage them to be well-informed and make the right decision for them, whatever that is. Good luck and know that there is no rush. In fact, this is probably a topic for you that deserves plenty of time and consideration.



manda59 -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 10:56:55 AM)

If you were only ever "going along" with your parents' faith, then it was not a personal faith of your own.

I heard it said once that "God only has children, not grandchildren", in other words, you don't inherit a faith in Christ as you would eye colour, or personality traits.

It's time to look into the Christian faith for yourself now.

Oh and btw, don't let the creationism/science thing bother you unnecessarily. Being a creationist isn't a prerequisite for being a Christian. I know committed Christians who are creatonists, and those who are not. And also those who really don't care either way so long as God did it.



ames01 -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 11:37:43 AM)

It sounds to me like it's not so much that you're losing faith, but more that you're starting to ask questions about things that you haven't really questioned before this. If so, you are normal! [;)] Questioning your faith is not always a bad thing. In fact, often times it ends up being a catalyst for finding a real and personal relationship with Jesus.

I was a lot like you in college. My parents had taken me to church growing up, and I had been sporadically involved in the youth group and other activities. I went to church because going to church was "the right thing to do," and I thought that I was a Christian because I went to church. When I got to college, I stopped attending church altogether. As you know, in a university atmosphere, there is often a great deal of peer pressure to present yourself as an intellectual. Many people fall into the line of thinking that having intellect and having faith are mutually exclusive.

It wasn't until a few years out of college that I learned what being a born again Christian really meant. A co-worker invited me to a special church event, and the pastor preached about God's plan for salvation. In all those years of attending my parents' church, I had never heard that before. It was then that I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior and committed my life to following Him.

Are you like I was? Has anyone ever told you how much God loves you, and how much He has done for you so that you can have a life-giving, saving relationship with Him?

We are all sinners, and the punishment for sin is death and an eternity apart from God. There is no way we can ever be good enough on our own to live up to God's standard of perfection. But God knows this, and He has given us a solution to the problem. He sent His Son to earth to take on all of our sin, and when Jesus died on the cross, our sin debt was paid in full. Three days later, through His resurrection, Jesus conquered death so that we could have eternal life. However, we have to accept this wonderful gift by believing in Jesus as our Savior.

This website, Crosswalk.com, has some good resources available to you in your search for knowledge. Other websites you might find useful are Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry and Josh McDowell's website (hope I'm allowed to link those -- sorry mods if I'm not). Others have already suggested books by C. S. Lewis and Josh McDowell, and you might be interested in reading Lee Strobel's writings as well.

Good luck in your search, and welcome to the community!



atruefaith -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 11:47:37 AM)

May I suggest Tim Keller's Book...The Reason for God? It's an excellent honest look at the Christian faith while considering the arguments of its staunchest critics.



terryjohn -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 4:18:47 PM)

Oh! Unfortunately, you do as Christ suggested need to be born again for there are many who say they beleive simply because they don't want to go to hell and scripture makes it clear such a desire is simply not good enough, because if we do not know/love Christ we shall die in our sins. This does involve a total transformation/renewing of our minds and not just a begrudging, reluctant asscent to the possibility of Christ existing and thus being able to save us.

Personally, men and women of faith can be very interlectual and achieve all the learning of men but unlike other men and women it only confirms their faith in God and the foolishness of men.

The only convincing arguments my atheistic or agnostic friends ever make to me is for the lack of God in their lives. Sure they are nice people but their addictions, private fears, underlying motives and ultimate selfishness speaks volumes about the differences Christ makes. In short their narrow, selfish, abusive, pointless little lives with out Christ scare me.

As for so called Christians who are not what they claim to be, we can only say that even their dishonouring Christ points to the truth in Christ without which we could not begin to see their dishonour. But here again, we are not Christians or have faith because of any man but God Himself least we have tried the impossible by trying to come to the Father by another means.

I wouldn't feel bad about saying that you are an agnostic for that may well be the case and God is interested in the truth. Nevertheless, the fact that you are uncomfortable with the confession shows that it is not who you wan to be.

Science is not really kicking creationism for their are many, many Christian men and women scientists and their faith goes from strength tot strength. Faith is not opposed to science just wrong thinking. Unfortuntely, as many suppose there is no salvation in science or great learning but God is the source of all learning but will not allow men to save themselves through it, infact, much of man's so called great advances in science have brought us closer than ever to the brink of destruction. No wonder the wisdom of men is but foolishness in the eyes of God.

The issue is not about learning something new but about meeting someone for men run here and there seeking to learn the truth and Christ said, "I am the Truth". By all means learn more about Christ but go beyond it with Him to see and live like Chirst and this is only possible by falling in love with Him. I can tell you I have never taken drugs, but I do not know a greater buzz than knowing and loving Him. I think you should then say, I would love to be loving Christ.

Again Christ is not far from us all and as we begin to want see things as Christ sees them, we hear Him clearly. This faith we are to live by can be hard but when you begin to practice it, things that once pasted unnoticed begin to stand out. It is the source of all our problems and we must all deal with Him whether we like it or not. In the end we are not commanded to love God for God is love and why wouldn't you want to fall in love? Now this love is interesting in that it motivates, comforts, inspires and gives great joy when others can only see death and hopelessness. This love has also brought many of the most desperate men and women to a saving knowledge of Christ and transformed their lives for ever and proud men who boast of their great learning, who themselves offer no hope or help, say such faith is worthless and is to be discouraged.

In the end, I don't want to learn any more from men for I have already done too much of that, but I do hunger and thrist after more of His love and righteousness, however, in doing so we must recognise that it in-itself will make demands on ur lives that we may not be willing to make. And that is half the problem, our fear of God in our lives can keep us from letting Him in to our hearts, minds. Let go and stop resisting God!



nova86 -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 10:39:37 PM)

I had a very similar experience last year. I am actually still in college. . . but after I rededicated my life to Christ in 2006, my faith was severely tested with months of doubt and questioning that I am only now starting to pull out of. I too was raised "Christian" and had never questioned my faith, God's existence, or the validity of the Bible until right after I rededicated my life. I think God wanted me to go through a period of doubt in order to lead me into a deeper relationship with Him. (by the way, it is GREAT on the other side! after all the doubt starts to go away, you finally feel like you actually have a real faith, because you have asked yourself all the tough questions that the skeptics are asking you. like someone said, it's a much deeper relationship with God).

First off, I do agree that science and the Bible's word-for-word story of the creation do not match up, but as for me, I have made peace with this by knowing that however God created the world (whether He used evolution, seven days, or seven billion years), I know that He created it. Look around! It's impossible for all this amazing stuff (DNA, photosynthesis, the constellations) to have just popped up! Sit in on a science class sometime! It's almost laughable to think that there are people out there who believe that this stuff just *happened*. No, my friend, He did it. I am not 100 percent how He did it, but the way I look at it, there are way more important things for a Christian to be concerned about, and I will ask Him about it in Heaven (if I still care by then, which I probably won't, because Heaven will be so amazing I won't even be thinking about this world).

And as for all the agnostics, atheists, and pot-heads in college, I feel ya. It's tough. But I got involved with a group on campus called Campus Crusade For Christ, and it has been great! I am pretty sure that any major university has a Campus Crusade group, so look into it (they have a website with all the locations; you can Google it). And if not, I am absolutely positive that there are Bible studies and Christian groups all around you. There *are* Christians in college. You just have to look for them.

There's not much more I can say. I have been there first hand, so I know that a lot of my post is probably not very convincing to you right now. But I assure you, if you hold onto God as tight as you can, this will pass. It will. And your faith will be richer and realer than it has ever been. I'll be praying for you!



mikeman2 -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 11:17:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fribjits


However, I'm in college now and all of the sudden I'm learning all sorts of new things. These new things unfortunately are detriment to my faith. Things like geologic record, or philosophy about the universe, and cognitice thinking and and etc seem to poke holes in religion in general.

quote:


I would like to recommend a book to you called "Genesis and the Big Bang" by Dr. Gerald Schroeder. He is a scientist/theologian who writes about Creation. What he does in the book is find writings from ancient rabbis regarding Genesis in the pre-modern scientific era and what he finds is amazing. These rabbis studied Genesis in its original Hebrew and were experts in the Hebrew langauge and also seem to have been privy to passed down knowledge regarding Genesis. Much of what the Rabbis said actually mirror what science tells us today. Needless to say, the position that Schoeder takes and the ancient rabbis took was that creation was not completed in six literal days. He then includes his own theories about how it all might have happened.

Also keep in mind that the Creation account is but a few chapters in the Bible and seems to be the main means for attacking it. Does that sound fair? Science is the study of the material world as where the Bible is the study of the immaterial world. The Bible is NOT a book of science. However, also know that the Bible is the ONLY religious book that a scientific discipline has been based upon which is Biblical archeology. If the Bible is so unreliable, how can this be so?

In addition, keep in mind that the Bible says that God is love and that is what you are learing about in the Bible. So tell me, does love exist? Can you see it? Can you study it scientifically? No, yet it is what makes us tick. Love is what gives us a reason to get up in the morning. It is immaterial yet it is the single most important component to our existence.

As for your friends, I think you will find that as your friends go so do you. Therefore, when choosing friends first ask yourself where you want to end up in life? Just some words of advice from someone who once found out the hard way!!!



AboundinginHisGrace -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/3/2008 11:52:50 PM)

Not trying to be mean or anything, but did you just try to live like a Christian to please your parents and/or to fit in? Or did you really have a life changing experience? I pray that you did it out of faith in Christ. As for creation not matching up with science most of it actually does other than the age of the earth which is easily explained and evolution(which has never shown one shred of evidence to be true). For instance the date of the time of the flood is when scientist say the earth tilted on it axis, hmm. Also to make fossils/fossil fuels it takes extreme pressure. Think about this a second during the flood where i live would have been at least 6 miles underwater, we figured out the pressure that would be and it was incredible. Ok think about this a second, where is most of the oil at in the world? The middle east (Mesopotamia) where the bible says it all started, so most of the worlds population was there hence all the oil... Also they can trace the genealogies that are listed in the bible prior to the tower of babel to pretty much every racial group. Science belongs to God and we are just figuring out bits and pieces of it. Also The big bang doesn't explain rotation of the planets, gravity, and who made the big bang, exactly what went bang.. lol



Brachah -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/4/2008 12:02:27 AM)

seek, u wl get the answer. dont be afraid of doubts n questions.
what others say whether there is a God or not is not important. the important is be honest whether u experience the existance of God or jesus in ur life. even "great" christian leaders may have crisis for a long time that they dont feel the presence of God. talk to God, cry to Him, i hope u can. sometimes we dont know even how to cry before God! that's the worst tragedy IMO. when u feel the numbness in ur soul, u have to learn to cry before God again!



TJStarfire -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/4/2008 12:37:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fribjits

However, I'm in college now and all of the sudden I'm learning all sorts of new things. These new things unfortunately are detriment to my faith. Things like geologic record, or philosophy about the universe, and cognitice thinking and and etc seem to poke holes in religion in general.

So I'm just realy lost, and slowly losing my faith. So i decided to ask you people as well as an atheist forum to see what you say....


Part of the problems come from interpreting words wrong, for instance the word interpreted as creation can actually mean formation and if we look at GOD as using the material at hand to bring what He wants into being by manipulating the flows of energy every thing fits with what little science we have pieced together so far. He formed man from the dust of the Earth right? So, it is not hard to imangine that everything else was created the same way.



Brachah -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/4/2008 3:02:59 AM)

quote:

He formed man from the dust of the Earth right? So, it is not hard to imangine that everything else was created the same way.


our body wl return to dust, but our spirit wl return to the creator who creat us. every human wl stand before HIM 1 day for all ur actions on earth. it's all ur personal responsibility whether u view or make ur life meaningful or meaningless or even harmful.



BibleL7 -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/4/2008 5:23:33 AM)

You have a great advantage of being taught the truth when you were young. If you doubt truly READ the BIBLE for yourself start from the beginning and read it cover to cover. You do need to be Born Again and with the help of the Holy Spirit you can learn to understand the Bible. I can not say been there done that for I never learned of God when I was growing up. We are taught that teachers are well learned and know better. They have learned to deny God not knowing better. When it comes to science not agreeing with the Bible that is a false assumption and just not true. Those who state this are not able to understand the Bible for only the Holy Spirit can reveal the truth in the Bible. If you are a believer and just weak in faith, don't try to defend the Bible or your belief. Don't try to prove the Bible, It Proves itself. Get into a bible study group or Campus Crusades if you can and fellowship with other believers. As for you posting on Atheist posts, ask them to prove their belief in evolution. Never feel you need to justify your faith ask them to prove their evolution and you will undoubtedly come to answers like its just true everybody knows that. No there is no proof for evolution what so ever. If non-believing scientists would be honest they would have to admit that science only disproves evolution. If you want to study philosophy look to study logic and logical rules for sound arguments. Then as you read the Genesis creation account you will see it follows very sound logic for everything births its own kind.

As to the post on DNA experts the study that went to 3 people was based on female aspects and traced back to 3 females the wives of Noah's 3 sons. Of course they did not state it agreed with the bible account and DNA can only be traced back to the flood for that is when human kind started over. Another DNA expert did a similar study and came to the conclusion that all humans came from the same tribe in Africa yet had no answer as to why only one tribe had evolved into humans. But he was emphatic that all humans came from one tribe. He of course could not say that this confirms Biblical accounts. His research and all his money came from evolutionists and it would not do well to deny their religion.

Some questions you might ask your atheist and agnostic friends would be the following:
Why if the big bang is true are there constellations and why have they been tracked over the years to be in the same place of view each year about the same time?
Why if evolution is true do we not see these changes taking place now?
Why do humans only bear human children and animals on bear young in their likeness?
Why are there still Apes or Gorillas, or which ever they are claiming, if we evolved from them would they have not evolved into extinction or still be evolving?
Why is it that seeds from one type of tree only produce the same type of tree it came from?
Why are there seven days to a week?
If the past aged people were ignorant how did a calendar come about which puts the year to the revolution of the earth around the sun including a leap year to make up for the .25 days of the year long before the telescope was created?

The Bible is the Word of God and needs no defense. If your read it you will see the answers to all the above questions are in the Bible. Study of philosophy is Questions and only questions with some giving answers that mostly we can not know for sure. It makes good points at times but there is no agreement among the various philosophers. The point of it is to argue both sides and question knowledge. The Bible on the other hand gives answers.

I was an Atheist most of my life, I studied logic, philosophy, in college as well as business and computers. When it finally came down to it I had no hope in life and no reason to continue in it. After putting a gun to my head and pulling the trigger and yes the gun went off I spent 18 days in jail for that, I still felt no hope or reason for being it did cause me to have to move to a place that required me to attend church once a week. I still did not believe. Only after my final attempt to go where nobody would find me for the purpose of cutting my wrists did I realize that God existed for He would not allow me to end it. After some time in a mental institute where I unfortunately made a promise to not take my life, I found He would not let me die and I could no longer deny His existence. So I read the bible cover to cover figuring I better find out what its all about. And the Bible answered all the nagging questions and I came to a saving knowledge of my Lord and Savior. If you really want proof that Jesus and the Bible are true look to those who's lives He has changed. Only the God who created all things has the power and ability to change lives in the way He does. Only with Him do we have Hope Love and Joy.

If God does not exist then how could an Atheist be changed into a preacher of the Gospel in a matter of eight years? And no I am not a good speaker nor an extrovert, He has changed my life from hating anything to do with God to loving Him enough to speak His truth to others I otherwise would never have cared about. This is how I know God exists and is True. Ask your Artiest friends about truth and you will get all kinds of answers non bear out. Then ask them why more than likely your college was started? Most colleges and universities were started by Christians for higher learning in the Bible. True there are some exceptions, but most of the well known colleges were started by Christians for Christians to learn more and expand their minds. Then if they say Christians are closed minded with blind faith ask them how that is any different from their belief in evolution.



BibleBased -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/4/2008 6:46:59 AM)

Such long replies - but yes the best advice - read the bible every day and all God's perfect Wisdom is there. BibleBased.



BibleL7 -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/4/2008 8:04:10 AM)

Sorry, guess it is bad habbit of preachers to be long winded.



drj11 -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/4/2008 9:25:49 PM)

I spend most of my time here in the science + origins section... but I saw this and couldn't help but shake my head. Yes, science has for the most part, proven the tenets of young earth creationism impossible to about as near a certainty as is possible to achieve. But not all Christian denominations believe in creationism.. in fact the majority of Christians do not. If the creationism aspect is causing you to have doubts (IMHO, as it should) you should explore what other denominations say about it... you may find their beliefs more reasonable. Creationists are the minority.

Unfortunately, in the media today, all of Christianity gets painted with the same broad brush of extreme fundamentalism so no matter which denomination you are, your atheist friends will likely think you a creationist by default.



mikeman2 -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/5/2008 1:50:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drj11

I spend most of my time here in the science + origins section... but I saw this and couldn't help but shake my head. Yes, science has for the most part, proven the tenets of young earth creationism impossible to about as near a certainty as is possible to achieve. But not all Christian denominations believe in creationism.. in fact the majority of Christians do not. If the creationism aspect is causing you to have doubts (IMHO, as it should) you should explore what other denominations say about it... you may find their beliefs more reasonable. Creationists are the minority.

Unfortunately, in the media today, all of Christianity gets painted with the same broad brush of extreme fundamentalism so no matter which denomination you are, your atheist friends will likely think you a creationist by default.

I think part of the problem is what is ment by creationism and what is ment by evolution? If you look at scripture, for example, it does not appear as though God is zapping things out of thin air. For example, God makes man out of the dust of the earth and not by zapping him out of thin air. I know of no scientist who says man did not originate from the dust of the earth. Then when you look at creation in Genesis we start in the sea and make our way to land. In fact, God speaks to the waters to bring forth animals onto dry land. Why does he speak to the waters I wonder? Why not zapp them out of thin air? I know of no scientist who would argue that life did not originate from the sea. Really, what we are asking is what are the triggors for these "changes" and not so much that they actually happened. Also in question are the time frames for which these things occured. I am an old earth creationist so it is my belief that the earth is actually billions of years old. However, what I know from science is that time is relative. In fact, time throughout the universe is different depending where you are in the universe. For example, time on the moon passes faster than time on earth. This is because such confounding factors such as mass and speed etc, can distort time. In short, time is not a constant, it is in a constant state of flux that is effected by a myriad of factors. The earth could have had a far different rate of acceleration after the Big Bang with a far different speed of rotation and with far different gravitational forces acting on it when it was first formed whch all have been proven to distort the passage of time. God forbid we take these factors into consideration!! To drive home my point they have done tests in airplanes with one airplane flying due east and the other flying due west. Each plane had a clock to measure time and a third clock stationary in between them. At the end of the flights all three clocks were different in measuring time!!

Then you must ask the question, if it says in the Bible that a thousand years is as a day to God then what is a day in Genesis? After all, man was created on the last day, therefore, the time that elapsed before we came on the scene were relative only to God and not man. For example, we could measure a life in either man years or dog years. The percieved passage of time seems to differ for both man and beast so why could'nt it be said that it differs for both God and man?

No matter your position, it just gets me angry when either evolutionist or creationist thinks they have all the answers when really they do not. What we should have is a greater since of humility and awe regarding what actually happened.



BibleL7 -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/5/2008 3:08:22 AM)

quote:

Gen 1:9 Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.
Gen 1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;
Gen 1:15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.
Gen 1:16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.
Gen 1:17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Gen 1:20 Then God said, "Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens."
Gen 1:21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."
Gen 1:23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Gen 1:24 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind"; and it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."


Please do tell me where God spoke to the sea. Please do tell how you get that land animals came from the sea. And please do tell me how even if the days of creation were as a thousand years given the time-line of the Scriptures that it would be billions of years old. Or that anything in this account matches to a big bang theory.

To get back to the topic and as I have posted the Scriptures to the OP I would check this account and see if it makes sense to you and forget what non Bible believers say. The Bible is the inspired word of God. And if others don't see how God could do this in a literal six days of creation perhaps their God is not an all mighty and all powerful God. I choose to believe the Bible. And to the OP I will say read the Bible and decide for yourself. Jesus is the only one that paid the price for your sins, and I feel you know that the world did not appear from nothing no life to what it is and in no way could life appear by chance.

As I said see if you can gather with a few other believers and fellowship with them and you can witness to the Atheists. Yet in witnessing you need not defend the Bible it stands on its own. Of course non-believers do not have the Holy Spirit to help them to understand the Bible so it does them no good anyway. There is a reason for the laws we have and if you look into former state laws which are now declared unconstitutional or repealed you will find that most laws of this country are from the Bible. Ask them why that would be if this was not started as a Christian nation. And them ask if most of the great scientists of history actually believed in God and the Bible.



BibleBased -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/5/2008 3:01:55 PM)

Later this week, in my 2 chapters a day/ daily reading, i finish the New Testament and start the Old again. I have seen this creation/ evolution debate too many times. I shall read it again, enjoying the Word of God as i always do. Sorry life is too short, to discuss one issue to a much greater extent to any other is doing satans work for him. 66 books, is it 929 chapters old and 260 new. Too much of interest, let's move on? Please. BibleBased.



GenXer -> RE: I'm losing my faith in Christ...advice please? :[ (5/5/2008 5:20:01 PM)

You must ask yourself whether you *are* a Christian or whether you simply *want* to be a Christian. There is a huge difference. The best thing you can do for yourself is to educate yourself, in many ways--not just in one way. Make your own decision because this is a deeply personal thing. What you've been doing up to now is going on autopilot because you've been doing what you were told to do.

I personally "lost" my faith over a period of years and have come to a conclusion that makes sense to me and is right for me. Obviously, being a Christian is something that makes many people's lives whole.



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