quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

Surely you aren't speaking of me, are you

I don't speak for anyone, CbG. I merely read what others post and the recurrent theme of sinning Christians is rampant in some of these theology threads. [8|]

quote:

(1Jn 3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

The wages of sin is death. It is not being out of fellowship or a spanking. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Christ is not returning to deal with sin anymore. He has already done so

Then why do so many Christians struggle with sinning, Dennis? I think you're posts indicate some confusion between sin (as the carnal nature) and sins (as the various acts of sinning). The end result of the unregenerate carnal nature is death. The Atonement does indeed "deal with sin" (the carnal nature) by providing a once-and-for-all solution. In my tradition and experience, we call this "entire sanctification". However, this spiritual state does not remove the possibility of ever sinning again. Thus, John writes in 1 John 2:1 that if we sin by specific disobedience, then Jesus speaks on our behalf, when we confess, repent, and allow the Holy Spirit to resume control. This is NOT losing our holiness, much less our salvation!

They struggle with sin because they refuse to truly believe that God has forgiven them, and because of that error, they are living in unbelief. They are unbelieving believers.

They are totally forgiven children of God who are living as though they are not. They have made Gods grace ineffectual, and it is grace that teaches us to say no to unrighteousness. The very thing that can help them, is the very thing they reject.

So they focus on their sins. When God is saying, "Focus on Me! Because when you focus on Me, you will not sin!"

The truly tragic result of this is shown in the individuals lack of ever truly experiencing the life of Christ in them.

Until a person rests in the finality of the cross, they will never rest in the reality of the resurrection.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus

Being Holy is defined in Scripture as a saint, one who is set apart, sanctified. If we have accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior, we are holy, saints, set apart, sanctified.

The Bible tells us that when we became Christians, God declared us Holy by what Jesus did on the cross.

Because of who we are as Christians, God has declared us holy.

What does it mean to you to be holy, set apart, sanctified, special? How do you live that holy life?

quote:

I would say that as we live by Adonai's commands we become holy(set apart).

quote:

we realize that we are holy

quote:

Holiness is not arrived at on this earth

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

I would say that as we live by Adonai's commands we become holy(set apart).

And I would say Adonai makes us holy so we can live by His commands!

quote:

we realize that we are holy

quote:

Holiness is not arrived at on this earth

These two statements are mutually exclusive, gmc4. Unless you feel our realizations as holy people are merely self-deception. Please clarify!

quote:

Perfection in holiness is not arrived on this earth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

unsanctifed believers? talk about an oxymoron

Nope, unsanctified saints would be an oxymoron. There are plenty of unsanctified Believers - these discussion forums evidence that fact every day!

quote:

Nope, believers are called saints...

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1Cor.6:11

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins
Even the believers at Corinth who were a mess, God through Paul adresses them as saints.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins
Even the believers at Corinth who were a mess, God through Paul adresses them as saints.

And the guy in the Church at Corinth who was having sex with his stepmother, the one that God, through Paul, had thrown out of the Church?

That's right, saint. Our position in Christ doesn't change. Now whether or not we are living in accordance with who God says we are in His Son is another story. That's why believers are told to live a life of separation. We are to live a pure life because we are saved, not in order to get saved. Man loves to judge. Many think they can tell who is a Christian and who is not. But if they were to see people living like the Corinthians they would certainly say, "They're not saved!" yet Paul knew better. Christians can get caught up into sin just like anyone else. The difference is that as Christians we ought to know better. The answer for the people of Corinth was in the book of 1Cor. They were to read it and obey it. That is the answer for other disobedient Christians as well.

If I remember correctly that man repented of his sin and Paul had this to say to the Corinthians about that in 2Cor.2

Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

rileykins

Thanks
RC

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins
If I remember correctly that man repented of his sin and Paul had this to say to the Corinthians about that in 2Cor.2

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins
If I remember correctly that man repented of his sin and Paul had this to say to the Corinthians about that in 2Cor.2

Absolutely, and it was after he repented and confessed that his position in the Church (the communion of Saints) was restored.

Which is the very point I have been trying to make, IF a Christian sins then confession and repentance is necessary to restore one to rightstanding with God.

My position is that our standing in Christ never changes. Our good behavior didn't put us in Christ and bad behavior doesn't annual our position in Him either. We ARE washed, we ARE sanctified, we ARE justified. This is true of us whether we are living like we are washed, sanctified, justified or not. When a believer sins, he or she doesn't become unwashed, sanctified one minute and unsanctifed the next, justified then unjustified, reconciled to God one minute then unreconciled the next any more than a believer can be in fellowship with the Lord one minute then out of fellowship with Him the next. We HAVE rightstanding with God. Our rightstanding is a gift given to us by faith in Christ Jesus, a gift that cannot be taken from us because its' based not on what we have done but on what Christ did. These things are not things that we lose and have to regain over and over again everytime we sin through confess and repentance, anymore than we have to keep getting reborn over and over again if, when, we sin.
If a believer needs to confess anything when they sin, it's that they have failed to believe what God has said about a certain situation, and instead of applying God's word by faith to it they decided instead to ignore God's word and did things their way. If there is anythiny to confess it's that they haven't been living in a way that becomes a saint. Repenting as I understand it means to have a change of mind. I think that a lot of times repentance is mistaken for doing penance. For the believer it's about having our minds renewed that we might not be conformed to this world. Having a change of mind is about knowing what God says about things, believing Him and linning our thinking up with His truth and acting accordingly when everything in our flesh wants to go in the opposite direction, now that to me is what real repentance is about.
Thanks
RC

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins
If I remember correctly that man repented of his sin and Paul had this to say to the Corinthians about that in 2Cor.2

Absolutely, and it was after he repented and confessed that his position in the Church (the communion of Saints) was restored.

Which is the very point I have been trying to make, IF a Christian sins then confession and repentance is necessary to restore one to rightstanding with God.

Many folks on this tread claim that sin has no effect on our relationship with God, just sin away and God has already forgiven it; no big deal. Well God does consider sin a big deal, so big a deal that He gave His Son for the ability of those who believe to be able to choose not to sin.

If no repentance or confession is necessary; then the man in corinthisan who was doing his mother in law would have automatically been clenased and there would be no need to excommute him from the body of CHrist.

Thanks
RC

quote:

2Cor.2

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins

My position is that our standing in Christ never changes. Our good behavior didn't put us in Christ and bad behavior doesn't annual our position in Him either. We ARE washed, we ARE sanctified, we ARE justified. This is true of us whether we are living like we are washed, sanctified, justified or not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins
If I remember correctly that man repented of his sin and Paul had this to say to the Corinthians about that in 2Cor.2

Absolutely, and it was after he repented and confessed that his position in the Church (the communion of Saints) was restored.

Which is the very point I have been trying to make, IF a Christian sins then confession and repentance is necessary to restore one to rightstanding with God.

My position is that our standing in Christ never changes. Our good behavior didn't put us in Christ and bad behavior doesn't annual our position in Him either. We ARE washed, we ARE sanctified, we ARE justified. This is true of us whether we are living like we are washed, sanctified, justified or not. When a believer sins, he or she doesn't become unwashed, sanctified one minute and unsanctifed the next, justified then unjustified, reconciled to God one minute then unreconciled the next any more than a believer can be in fellowship with the Lord one minute then out of fellowship with Him the next. We HAVE rightstanding with God. Our rightstanding is a gift given to us by faith in Christ Jesus, a gift that cannot be taken from us because its' based not on what we have done but on what Christ did. These things are not things that we lose and have to regain over and over again everytime we sin through confess and repentance, anymore than we have to keep getting reborn over and over again if, when, we sin.
If a believer needs to confess anything when they sin, it's that they have failed to believe what God has said about a certain situation, and instead of applying God's word by faith to it they decided instead to ignore God's word and did things their way. If there is anythiny to confess it's that they haven't been living in a way that becomes a saint. Repenting as I understand it means to have a change of mind. I think that a lot of times repentance is mistaken for doing penance. For the believer it's about having our minds renewed that we might not be conformed to this world. Having a change of mind is about knowing what God says about things, believing Him and linning our thinking up with His truth and acting accordingly when everything in our flesh wants to go in the opposite direction, now that to me is what real repentance is about.
Thanks
RC

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Well said rileykins. Truth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: URForgiven

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins
If I remember correctly that man repented of his sin and Paul had this to say to the Corinthians about that in 2Cor.2

Absolutely, and it was after he repented and confessed that his position in the Church (the communion of Saints) was restored.

Which is the very point I have been trying to make, IF a Christian sins then confession and repentance is necessary to restore one to rightstanding with God.

My position is that our standing in Christ never changes. Our good behavior didn't put us in Christ and bad behavior doesn't annual our position in Him either. We ARE washed, we ARE sanctified, we ARE justified. This is true of us whether we are living like we are washed, sanctified, justified or not. When a believer sins, he or she doesn't become unwashed, sanctified one minute and unsanctifed the next, justified then unjustified, reconciled to God one minute then unreconciled the next any more than a believer can be in fellowship with the Lord one minute then out of fellowship with Him the next. We HAVE rightstanding with God. Our rightstanding is a gift given to us by faith in Christ Jesus, a gift that cannot be taken from us because its' based not on what we have done but on what Christ did. These things are not things that we lose and have to regain over and over again everytime we sin through confess and repentance, anymore than we have to keep getting reborn over and over again if, when, we sin.
If a believer needs to confess anything when they sin, it's that they have failed to believe what God has said about a certain situation, and instead of applying God's word by faith to it they decided instead to ignore God's word and did things their way. If there is anythiny to confess it's that they haven't been living in a way that becomes a saint. Repenting as I understand it means to have a change of mind. I think that a lot of times repentance is mistaken for doing penance. For the believer it's about having our minds renewed that we might not be conformed to this world. Having a change of mind is about knowing what God says about things, believing Him and linning our thinking up with His truth and acting accordingly when everything in our flesh wants to go in the opposite direction, now that to me is what real repentance is about.
Thanks
RC

Well said rileykins. Truth.

Hi URForgiven
well said in your posts too!! Looks like you and I will be drinking a lot of Kool Aid! Because if knowing who you are in Christ, standing fast in the liberty wherewith He has made us free, trusting that Christ and Christ alone is our salvation and being absolutely confident that all our sins are forgiven, past, present and future, and that Heaven will be our home when we die, that Christ is able to keep us saved for all of eternity, that God in Christ has made us accepted in the Beloved and that we are complete in Him, if believing that we have redemption the forgiveness of sins as an ever present posession, that we are clothed in His righteousness, that we have the reconciliation, free access to God at all times by faith in this grace in which we stand, that we are seated with Christ in heavenly places and that our life is hid in God with him, if believing that it's the grace of God that teaches us to deny ungodliness and to live soberly and righteously in this present evil age, if believeing that we have been crucified with him, buried and raised in newness of life, that we died to sin, that there is now therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, and that we are SAINTS, and if all this and more is akin to "drinking the Kool Aid", then pass me another glass of that there Kool Aid, Bro!! [:D]

rileykins

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins

quote:

My position is that our standing in Christ never changes. Our good behavior didn't put us in Christ and bad behavior doesn't annual our position in Him either. We ARE washed, we ARE sanctified, we ARE justified. This is true of us whether we are living like we are washed, sanctified, justified or not. When a believer sins, he or she doesn't become unwashed, sanctified one minute and unsanctifed the next, justified then unjustified, reconciled to God one minute then unreconciled the next any more than a believer can be in fellowship with the Lord one minute then out of fellowship with Him the next. We HAVE rightstanding with God. Our rightstanding is a gift given to us by faith in Christ Jesus, a gift that cannot be taken from us because its' based not on what we have done but on what Christ did. These things are not things that we lose and have to regain over and over again everytime we sin through confess and repentance, anymore than we have to keep getting reborn over and over again if, when, we sin.
If a believer needs to confess anything when they sin, it's that they have failed to believe what God has said about a certain situation, and instead of applying God's word by faith to it they decided instead to ignore God's word and did things their way. If there is anythiny to confess it's that they haven't been living in a way that becomes a saint. Repenting as I understand it means to have a change of mind. I think that a lot of times repentance is mistaken for doing penance. For the believer it's about having our minds renewed that we might not be conformed to this world. Having a change of mind is about knowing what God says about things, believing Him and linning our thinking up with His truth and acting accordingly when everything in our flesh wants to go in the opposite direction, now that to me is what real repentance is about.
Thanks

Hebrews 6:1-8 says differently:
Hbr 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Hbr 6:2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
Hbr 6:3 And this we will do, if God permits.
Hbr 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Hbr 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Hbr 6:6 and {then} have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Hbr 6:7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
Hbr 6:8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins

quote:


My position is that our standing in Christ never changes. Our good behavior didn't put us in Christ and bad behavior doesn't annual our position in Him either. We ARE washed, we ARE sanctified, we ARE justified. This is true of us whether we are living like we are washed, sanctified, justified or not. When a believer sins, he or she doesn't become unwashed, sanctified one minute and unsanctifed the next, justified then unjustified, reconciled to God one minute then unreconciled the next any more than a believer can be in fellowship with the Lord one minute then out of fellowship with Him the next.

This can not be any further from the truth. It is called apostasy and it can and does happen and will continue to happen because the Bible says it will. Those verses in Hebrews describes it. I'm sorry but your feel good doctrine does not line up with the Word.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins
that there is now therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling

quote:

ORIGINAL: rileykins

quote:


My position is that our standing in Christ never changes. Our good behavior didn't put us in Christ and bad behavior doesn't annual our position in Him either. We ARE washed, we ARE sanctified, we ARE justified. This is true of us whether we are living like we are washed, sanctified, justified or not. When a believer sins, he or she doesn't become unwashed, sanctified one minute and unsanctifed the next, justified then unjustified, reconciled to God one minute then unreconciled the next any more than a believer can be in fellowship with the Lord one minute then out of fellowship with Him the next.

This can not be any further from the truth. It is called apostasy and it can and does happen and will continue to happen because the Bible says it will. Those verses in Hebrews describes it. I'm sorry but your feel good doctrine does not line up with the Word.

So you are saying that it was our good behavior that got us into Christ?
I also take it that you believe that a believer can lose his/her salvation.
You must also be saying that God is wrong when he tells us that we ARE washed, ARE sanctified, ARE justified in Christ Jesus? No, it's called the gospel of the grace of God, not apostasy. Do you want to know what apostasy is? It's rejecting Pauline doctrine. It's called teaching another gospel which is not another.

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-8

And what is the gospel that Paul says is being perverted? Do you know?

But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself,so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. Acts 20:24

That's all I have time for now. BOY! has this fun!!
Have a great weekend everyone, Maranatha!rileykins[:D]