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pickin4Him -> Need some advice (5/5/2008 7:31:53 AM)

Hello folks! I've spent some time reading the posts here, but have just recently joined. I am facing a bit of a problem and could use some Christian perspective and advice.

Without getting too windy, let me set the background for you. I have been the Praise Team leader (write a bit, and play guitar) at my church for 7 years. About a year ago, we were able to hire a music minister. We seem to "go through" them pretty quick, as our church usually hire up and coming preachers, who will take on the music ministry until they find a church to pastor. Anyway, he expressed a desire to join the Praise Team, and I felt it was a good idea. I logically included him in the leadership roles, seeing as he was responsible for the overall music program. I am 48, he is 25, which shouldn't be an issue because most of the folks in the PT are younger than I.

Ok, there has recently been a sense of losing focus at practice and a lack to desire to improve and learn new material, even getting most everyone to get to practice has become difficult.

We begin each practice with prayer and usually a short devotion. In order to address the loss of focus I told the group that we needed to handle song selection, arrangement and performance with the same dedication and dilligence a pastor does in perparing his sermon. I shared with them my belief that a sermon, sunday school lesson, or song set should all be based on scripture, and bathed in prayer, as each of those were mediums of sharing the gospel. I added that the Holy Spirit could use any of them to show a lost sinner the way to Jesus. Our Music Minister disagreed.

He stated that a song could not be compared to a sermon, as only a sermon was from God's Word. I tried to gently show him why I thought that was in error. Deut 31 and 32 - God gave Moses a song to write and explained why it was important. The entire book of Psalms shows us the range of issues and praise to be addressed in song. The fact that "preach" in greek was actually several differnt words, all meaning to share the gospel, to show the lost the only way to salvation which is Jesus Christ.

He would not listen...just keep saying that only preaching a sermon was God's Word.

Ok, I can't ask him to leave the PT, He is in charge of the Music Ministry.

If I stay and "hold my ground" it could and probably would be devisive and could spill into the church. Hardly an option in my thinking.

Or I could step down and let things take their course.

I have been in prayer about this for some time, and feel that I have been lead here for advice.

Sorry to be so long winded and present a problem my first time on this forum. Any suggestions from folks who have been there?

Thanks



lightshineon -> RE: Need some advice (5/5/2008 10:45:24 AM)

Sounds like he is being obnixous and baiting you. Just move on from what he said, probaly immature, which whatever. If the Lord has not given you a release from ministry, then stay. I have been deeply offended in ( in a different ministry), but had to keep my chin-up, and do what I was called by God to do anyway. I think the Lord calls these times " Grow time". Meaning learning to move past offense, doing what we need to be doing, and loving the offender. Is it easy? Anything but easy, it is picking up the cross and following him, and laying down your rights. I have struggled, and will struggle to become the humble servant of the Lord. I had a similar situation two years ago VBS, a young college voulenteer pastor came in and was helping. Puffed up, and tried to shoot orders, take control, and the kicker is we were doing the " Love Chp." I could not stand him, I am being straight up. He left last VBS, pastor ask him to leave, but in a year I had grown to love him, and his wife, they had lost a baby, and they were at the altar asking for praye. I looked over, and compassion filled my heart. It took six months after VBS, of praying for me to love him, and it happened. Do not give up. I hope this is helpful, every situation is different, but my.02 worth.[;)] I am the woman btw, been called sir, alot lately.[:D]



Szaftoo -> RE: Need some advice (5/5/2008 11:14:58 AM)

I agree worship should be tied into the pastor's teaching as it creates an atmosphere of continuity in the service. Also, many worship songs are taken word-for-word right out of scripture.
I think worship songs should be selected and prayed for before the service, however, I also believe there are times the Holy Spirit may direct a worship leader to change songs.
It's possible your new worship leader is young and maybe a bit too eager or maybe he wants control. Also, sometimes his education and background makes him feel like he knows more. I would pray for guidance and then speak with him again and if that doesn't resolve the problem, get your senior pastor involved.



lightshineon -> RE: Need some advice (5/5/2008 11:22:31 AM)

I agree the poster is right, and my ministry is not worship. I think things maybe could be worked out without strife. A person can be a mentor without being ask, mentoring through actions.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Szaftoo

I agree worship should be tied into the pastor's teaching as it creates an atmosphere of continuity in the service. Also, many worship songs are taken word-for-word right out of scripture.
I think worship songs should be selected and prayed for before the service, however, I also believe there are times the Holy Spirit may direct a worship leader to change songs.
It's possible your new worship leader is young and maybe a bit too eager or maybe he wants control. Also, sometimes his education and background makes him feel like he knows more. I would pray for guidance and then speak with him again and if that doesn't resolve the problem, get your senior pastor involved.



Little_1 -> RE: Need some advice (5/5/2008 12:01:45 PM)

Psalms, Hymns and choruses still have a very important role within the church and should never be taken lightly or disregarded because they are part of God's system of worship and have been since OT times.

In Scripture, the Tribe of Levi would be called upon on occasions to lead the Children of Israel into battle against their enemies. They were the 'praising' tribe and praise set the standard for what was to come (i.e. the fullfilment of God's promises to His people concerning these battles i.e. 'victory'). Members of the Tribe of Levi served under the priests in the tabernacle and in the temple and were responsible for leading the worship.

When we moved to our current location, our neighbour died and my husband and I attended his funeral. Our neighbour was a Christian. One of the things my husband commented on after the funeral was that "everyone at the service seemed to be singing as if they meant what they were singing about". This really challenged him because he had never experienced this before and this made a big impression on my unsaved husband (who has since trusted the Lord). My hubby used to watch some Christian programmes and was thereon interested in watching the praise side of things especially because this now held his fascination after this funeral. You can tell a lot about a church by their praise / choir group I believe. I believe they are a kind of 'spritual thermometer'. There is nothing worse than listening to a choir full of miserable faces who are not paying attention to what they are singing or very intent on singing with gratitue and reverence for the Lrod and it doesn't give one much confidence in what is to come in the sermon either I believe! Take for instance the Billy Graham crusades. I really believe that the Lord set the standard for what was to come in His Word by the praise of His people in the large choirs during these crusades. Praise confuses the enemy and gives God's children victory, e.g. the Ammonites and Moabites fled when Jehosaphat appointed singers to lead the children of Israel into battle (see 2 Chronicles 20:21 but please read 2 Chronicles 20:1-29 and I believe you will be blessed for your effort)! If only our church leadership could get a hold of this ~ Praise confuses the enemy and sets the stage for God's Word to be fulfilled!

God also tells us to bring the sacrifice of praise into His house. We are blessed by doing so. I know that when I am feeling under spritual attack that one of the things I can do is 'praise God' and I find that not only is God glorified when I bring the sacrifice of praise to Him but I am uplifted in my spirit in response to God's Word also.

There are 3 important things a Christian can use to build their faith - prayer, praise and the Word of God/ promises of God. I would seriously be concerned if a church was lacking in any of these 3 things.

You are right to want to give God your best in His service. Pray about this and if nothing changes, then perhaps you need to consider going elsewhere where you can serve God as He intended you to (i.e. with all your mind, heart and will). Never allow anyone to tell you that praise is not important because God's Word suggests that it very definately a vitally important part of a church service; and it is also a means of encouragement during spritual attack.

[sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif][sm=icon_smile_sing.gif]



still4gvn -> RE: Need some advice (5/5/2008 1:51:21 PM)

Well, I think he is wrong, but comparing singing with preaching may not be a central problem. Why has the worship team gone downhill? Is he having a bad effect somehow (and it could be a direct spiritual thing) or are they just in a temporary slump? Does he have any suggestions for improving the worship or is he unable to tell the difference?



pickin4Him -> RE: Need some advice (5/5/2008 3:55:33 PM)

Thanks for your insights. From some of the PMs I received, I have begun to question if music is anything but music. Maybe I have believed in error that I could fulfill some part of the great commission with it. Maybe it is just filler and I am over-working it.

Biggest thing is....I will not allow it to cause problems for our senior pastor, and I don't want to be part of anything that could be divisive.

Is it worth all the study, prayer and practice? Does it preach (Euaggelizo)? I am not confusing it with Kerusso.

Anyway, please pray with me about this issue. I will have to make a decision this Saturday evening (regular practice night).

Thanks again.



seagullplayer -> RE: Need some advice (5/5/2008 3:58:17 PM)

(Php 2:2) Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
(Php 2:3) Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
(Php 2:4) Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

I think don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. You don't agree, move on. The problem in the group was
one of focus, don't loose focus over the greater goal here. Otherwise the enemy will win.

Take the high road.



pbaribeault -> RE: Need some advice (5/5/2008 4:42:25 PM)

I also agree with this...
quote:

I agree worship should be tied into the pastor's teaching as it creates an atmosphere of continuity in the service. Also, many worship songs are taken word-for-word right out of scripture.
I think worship songs should be selected and prayed for before the service, however, I also believe there are times the Holy Spirit may direct a worship leader to change songs.
But...

I certainly understand that worship and preaching are not actually the same thing. They do not accomplish the same purpose, nor are they intended to.

Preaching is intended primarily to proclaim and to teach - to make God known, to impart cohesive understanding and to incite people to live accordingly. Worship is intended to render glory to God and to express our human reaction to knowing Him.

If someone in your worship time didn't know something about God that is being expressed in a (scriptural) worship song, then yes, that song would teach them something. If there are pre-Christians in your worship time, and a song contains the gospel message, then yes, that song is proclaiming salvation to them -- It happens, I'm not saying it's cut-and-dry.

But you don't set out to try to use your worship as a teaching or proclamation tool (do you?). Your worship time has its own distinct and absolutely vital function within the body -- something preaching rarely does (unless the preacher pops out with 'Praise God for that!" occasionally).

Preaching is intended for other's edification and/or evangleization. Worship is intended as the expression of a people's relationship with God -- which might be edifying if it is 'overheard' (which is the function of corporate worship) and it is capable of containing the gospel message -- but it is in essence something much deeper. You are loosing something wonderful if you are setting aside that function for the idea of using 'worship' time as a musical evangelistic time... it's an important thing to be warned of.

(Plus, in most situations - referencing our own culture - a spoken form of proclamation, like a sermon, is more effective than a musical approach... some exceptions apply.)

Perhaps a good discussion might bring greater clarity about what he means. Because I might say too that preaching is, in a way, God using Scripture to speak to His people through the preacher, whereas worship is people (based on their understanding from Scripture) speaking their own hearts back to God. Therefore "Only preaching is from God's Word" might be a somewhat unclear way of expressing that kind of thing.

This is not to say anything about your original idea that worship preparation deserves the same kind of dedication and effort as sermon preparation (it might be a bit of an overstatement, but it is a point well made). In fact I think that worship preparation takes more people-hours on a whole, because someone had to originally write each song, and then others have to produce it and others have to learn it, even before you get to selection, practice and polish.

Quite simply, it is a different thing, done a different way, and (your leader is correct) it should not be compared. A fine wine is a matter of barrels, bottles and years. A good roast beef is a matter of cut, seasonings and hours. Together you have a fine meal if both are well prepared - but to do each thing well, you do them very differently, and you are not trying to get the same result out of each process.

That said, I also agree with,
quote:

comparing singing with preaching may not be a central problem.
I'm not sure why you can't just agree to disagree and go on with your ministry in company with one another. You don't have to continue the argument, and neither of you has to leave the area of ministry - that's just hard feelings talking.

Simply say to him and to yourself, "I know that you don't believe that worship can or should be a form of gospel proclamation. I think I understand where you're coming from and it's OK with me. Is it OK with you if we occasionally sing songs with the hope of proclaiming the gospel, as long as we spend most of our time on direct worship?" If he wishes to continue arguing, you can just respond with, "I understand that that's what you think. It's just not what I think. I don't think it's going to effect our practical decisions too much, and where it does I'm sure we can compromise, since we both know where the other is coming from."



pbaribeault -> RE: Need some advice (5/5/2008 4:47:59 PM)

As for the great commission, I think worship has a lot more to do with, "Surely I am with you always." Than it has to do with the particular actions of making disciples and teaching them.

Although it is often pre-Christian observing true worship that makes them begin to digest the reality of God as it is deeply expressed in the hearts of the people.

And, by worship I mean songs-and-beyond (songs being the heart-speaking-part of a life lived as a sacrifice).



Little_1 -> RE: Need some advice (5/6/2008 4:25:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: junglebill007

Thanks for your insights. From some of the PMs I received, I have begun to question if music is anything but music. Maybe I have believed in error that I could fulfill some part of the great commission with it. Maybe it is just filler and I am over-working it.

Biggest thing is....I will not allow it to cause problems for our senior pastor, and I don't want to be part of anything that could be divisive.

Is it worth all the study, prayer and practice? Does it preach (Euaggelizo)? I am not confusing it with Kerusso.

Anyway, please pray with me about this issue. I will have to make a decision this Saturday evening (regular practice night).

Thanks again.


junglebill007 - I am so sorry that you are feeling so discouraged at the moment. I can only see this as an attack from the enemy. The praise worship is vital to the church and you have a very important role to perform. Praise leads the way for the Word of God to be fulfilled. When God's people praise Him and trust His Word - great things follow. Did you read II Chronicles 20:1-29?



funny_girl -> RE: Need some advice (5/6/2008 11:23:09 AM)

Hey Bill,

One question I have. If he's the music minister, why did you invite him to the 'praise team'? Wouldn't that be his call?

2 things come to mind.

1. Perhaps the pastor needs to clarify position in the group. What position are you presently holding?

2. This young man is inexperienced. I can't tell you how many times someone mature in Christ tried to offer us good advice/direction or solution and we just weren't teachable or mature enough to hear it. In your case, it's grating to you that this new music minister isn't teachable. Unfortunately, he's going to have to learn from someone he respects and I'm not hearing that he wants to respect you in a teaching roll. For your sanity, I can only suggest that you allow God to use you during this humbling time. If you can, take the roll of a servant and be submissive. Continue to try and build a friendship with this guy and build trust that will allow you to influence him. If God doesn't open that door, pray for him as the Lord brings him to mind. I really do want to encourage you to speak to the pastor about the situation. Perhaps the pastor would be able to reinforce what you were trying to teach him.

Sometimes we are right and others aren't always guaranteed to agree with us. We can choose to forgive and be secure knowing that God knows the truth and you tried the best you could.



MrsDC -> RE: Need some advice (5/9/2008 7:17:07 PM)

Ditto what Funny Girl said. I{m constantly reminding my husband to have patience with the younger members of the school of ministry here. We{ve been growing in the Lord together for almost 2 decades, while some of these young men only have a few years. We have to remember to not become haughty in our own knowledge (wise in our own eyes) but at the same time we must be patient and nurturing to the weaker members. Iron sharpens iron while the sparks fly!!!

Pray about the conflict you are having with this brother and if you believe that there is a problem (sin) that needs to be addressed, you should follow the steps written in Matthew about confronting a brother. If it{s a personal issue and not a sin issue, prayer should take care of it...both in his life and in yours!!!

I also agree that there might be deeper issues...such as why this disagreement came up in the first place. Sounds like there might be a root of bitterness taking hold somewhere...don{t know why I think that, it{s just a feeling I have. Anyway, cover it with prayer!!!

...Rebecca



pstrdebi -> RE: Need some advice (5/10/2008 1:36:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: junglebill007

We begin each practice with prayer and usually a short devotion. In order to address the loss of focus I told the group that we needed to handle song selection, arrangement and performance with the same dedication and dilligence a pastor does in perparing his sermon. I shared with them my belief that a sermon, sunday school lesson, or song set should all be based on scripture, and bathed in prayer, as each of those were mediums of sharing the gospel. I added that the Holy Spirit could use any of them to show a lost sinner the way to Jesus. Our Music Minister disagreed.


Hey Bill...

Wow. So sad that he is in this disagreement.

I had mentioned on another post about worship pastors... an experience that happened at a church I attended some time ago. And your situation sends up red flags.

I strongly believe that the enemy uses people to cause division in the church... and this certainly sounds like there could be a spirit of division at work here.

Any Worship Pastor (or music minister) worth his salt, knows that they have an extremely important position in ushering the congregation into worship... which is actually the "initial" worship. The Pastor takes over and continues "worship" as he brings the messege. "Worship" continues as we take communion... as we pray... as we make the invitation... etc.

I agree with your statement about handling the song selection. You are correct. When I worked with a worship team at the previously mentioned church as the AV Coordinator, I would instruct those who worked powerpoint on how very important it was for the powerpoint set to be timely and the words to be on the screen right on time... in sinc with the singers and the music... because you never know when just that one part of the lyrics is going to bring someone to their knees.

Have you gone to the senior pastor? I would, and I would ask him to pray with you regarding a spirit of division, and of strife and contention. As you pray with him, ask God to reveal to him any problems. When you feel the time is right, share with him your concerns... hopefully you have a good relationship with him, and he will listen.

I will be praying for you... [:)]
God bless...
Pastor Debi



jn1010lf -> RE: Need some advice (5/10/2008 10:15:10 AM)

Hello junglebill007

Churches are stange, at times. It's not any wonder that many become dissolusioned and just quit attending. I hear a tone in your sharing that I frankly don't like; the accent you young. Once one is over 30, it seems that the church generally gives one little consideratin. How many churches adverstise their fabulous youth department and sometime singles. How many do you ever learn about that minsters to seniors?

Music is also downplayed. A preacher once told me that music was a ministry of helps. I wasn't too kind in my response. The fact of the matter is that Satan was in charge of music until he wanted to be number one and was tossed out of heaven. So, music is quite important. I've always felt that the one in charge of music should be expected to be one with ministering elder status.

There is yet another trend I've seen. It's not a big deal but it is there nonetheless. If a man has a low pitched singing voice, there is absolutely no place for him. Curious. I think it attest's to man's subjection to fads and trends.

Personally, I would look for another church. It's apparent that the leadership doesn't recognize anointed people but prefers what I prefer to call "Wonder boy preachers."



pickin4Him -> RE: Need some advice (5/13/2008 3:10:25 PM)

Well folks, a happy update!

First, after praying and lots of study, I became reassured that I am not wasting my time in music ministry, that is does serve the purpose of praise and worship as well sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. As I re-read Deut 31 and 32, I saw music used to instruct, rebuke, exhort and praise our God! A review of Psalms clearly shows that songs were used to address more than just an overflow of joy.

I also prayed hard and listened even harder. This young man is relatively young in his faith, and in a position of leadership. He overstates things and seems to think he has to be an authority on anything and everything dealing with the scriptures. He clearly will not receive any input from me (guess I'm too old in his mind to be relevant), so instead, I will show him what I mean by living it.

I serve as the Praise and Worship Team Leader in our church, he is the Minister of Music, responsible for all music. I have and will continue to support him, work hard to accomplish goals he sets for us, while still emphasizing the importance of heart set, and preparation to do our best for the King.

Sunday went well, a little tense, but ok. Please continue to pray for us.

In Christ's Love

Bill



Itooamcalled -> RE: Need some advice (5/14/2008 4:02:14 AM)

Just a thought Bill,

As you work with the worship team, the more you can cause them to refocus their hearts on what true worship is, the more God will be able to not only work on the team as a whole but on you new Minister of Music. Could be that he is under attack as he is new in the faith and has been put into a place of leadership. Those seem to be the people Satan loves to get at. Just remember that those of us who have been the Lord's family for a number of years, can do a lot of teaching by our life's example not only our words.

Blessing and I will keep you in my prayers,



BibleL7 -> RE: Need some advice (5/14/2008 4:10:47 AM)

Sorry I did not see this post before Saturday but did want to encourage you that you are mostly correct in believing that praise worship should be taken as seriously if not more seriously than sermons. For it is the praise and worship by the congregation that is to be towards the Lord to give Him Glory and not to edify or teach the congregation. Though some songs are more aimed to the congregation there should also be songs of praise to our Lord. All the songs should be biblically correct. And those involved with leading the congregation in worship should in deed take it very seriously and with the utmost importance.

As to the younger minister perhaps as you have said he is another that is more of a minister taking a step towards preaching. It may not be just his youth and not having the live experience and wisdom, yet he may have seen it as stepping on the toes of a preacher. If one is called to preach or believes he is called to preach then they tend to see preaching the Word as the most important thing in the world and to suggest that Praise and Worship is as important or should be taken as seriously tends to put preachers on the defensive at times. I say this as being one who has both been worship leader and called to preach. Pray for him and do what you can to help him in his ministry perhaps by the example you show he will mature more and gain understanding.

No ministry to the Lord is easy or without attacks from the enemy. This is why we need to be in prayer without ceasing. Understand and forgive him his pride and show him the love of Christ. It can actually become contagious when you are around it for a time. Will pray for ya.



ruthyrich -> RE: Need some advice (5/17/2008 8:16:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pickin4Him

Hello folks! I've spent some time reading the posts here, but have just recently joined. I am facing a bit of a problem and could use some Christian perspective and advice.

Without getting too windy, let me set the background for you. I have been the Praise Team leader (write a bit, and play guitar) at my church for 7 years. About a year ago, we were able to hire a music minister. We seem to "go through" them pretty quick, as our church usually hire up and coming preachers, who will take on the music ministry until they find a church to pastor. Anyway, he expressed a desire to join the Praise Team, and I felt it was a good idea. I logically included him in the leadership roles, seeing as he was responsible for the overall music program. I am 48, he is 25, which shouldn't be an issue because most of the folks in the PT are younger than I.

Ok, there has recently been a sense of losing focus at practice and a lack to desire to improve and learn new material, even getting most everyone to get to practice has become difficult.

We begin each practice with prayer and usually a short devotion. In order to address the loss of focus I told the group that we needed to handle song selection, arrangement and performance with the same dedication and dilligence a pastor does in perparing his sermon. I shared with them my belief that a sermon, sunday school lesson, or song set should all be based on scripture, and bathed in prayer, as each of those were mediums of sharing the gospel. I added that the Holy Spirit could use any of them to show a lost sinner the way to Jesus. Our Music Minister disagreed.

He stated that a song could not be compared to a sermon, as only a sermon was from God's Word. I tried to gently show him why I thought that was in error. Deut 31 and 32 - God gave Moses a song to write and explained why it was important. The entire book of Psalms shows us the range of issues and praise to be addressed in song. The fact that "preach" in greek was actually several differnt words, all meaning to share the gospel, to show the lost the only way to salvation which is Jesus Christ.

He would not listen...just keep saying that only preaching a sermon was God's Word.

Ok, I can't ask him to leave the PT, He is in charge of the Music Ministry.

If I stay and "hold my ground" it could and probably would be devisive and could spill into the church. Hardly an option in my thinking.

Or I could step down and let things take their course.

I have been in prayer about this for some time, and feel that I have been lead here for advice.

Sorry to be so long winded and present a problem my first time on this forum. Any suggestions from folks who have been there?

Thanks

quote:

He stated that a song could not be compared to a sermon, as only a sermon was from God's Word. I tried to gently show him why I thought that was in error. Deut 31 and 32 - God gave Moses a song to write and explained why it was important. The entire book of Psalms shows us the range of issues and praise to be addressed in song. The fact that "preach" in greek was actually several differnt words, all meaning to share the gospel, to show the lost the only way to salvation which is Jesus Christ.

He would not listen...just keep saying that only preaching a sermon was God's Word.


[:@]Here is something for you to print off that might get this person's attention.

I was saved when I was eight and babtised at twelve. When my grandmother died,(she happened to be the one that took me to church every time the doors were opened and gave me spiritual and biblical advise for most of my life, even to adulthood) , I fell away from God big time. I went through a divorce, a remarraige, plenty of extra sins and was generally living for the world and not God. This happened for at least 3 or 4 years.

When I was to the point I thought I wanted to end my life. I turned on wkrc, a christian praise and worship radio station.

For what ever reason, I felt a need to pray. I told god that I needed so much to have a man in my life that loved me. I told the Lord that I didn't think his love was enough because he couldn't give me a real physical hug. I told Him that I was sick of having the men in my life physically and emotionally abuse me. I told God how angry I was with Him, how I felt like no one in this world cared. Told Him if my life were to always be this empty and meaningless that I didn't want to live. I told him how wrong I thought he was to take the only person in my life who gave a darn about me, my grandmother, away from me.

While I was so deap in prayer, a song came on the radio. I don't know to this day what that song was. I never heard it before. I don't believe I have ever heard it on the radio or anywhere again. The song talked about the singer getting a hug from Jesus. At that moment, I could actually feel a very warm loving set of arms giving me the biggest, sweetest, most awsome hug I have ever gotten before in my life. This was at 4:00 am in the morning, alone in my car waiting to clock in at work.

I am now attending a church very regularly. I am bringing at risk teen with me every time the church doors are opened. The Holy Spirit is working through my 14 yr old son and myself to minister to at risk teens in the community. The more teens with problem parents we take to church, the more show up. We are to the point we have to take two trips to church and youth group to drop everyone off.

My husband, who was very emotionally abusive, has turned back to the Lord as well. My 14 year old has accepted Jesus last year and he is a very strong christian. You should read the thread in ministries under "need pastor help with this one". If you want to know more about my son.

Anyways, you tell this guy this for me. DO NOT EVER, EVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF A SONG!!

The world even knows the power of a song. Have you read past headlines of teens killing people because they heard it in a rap song?

To me, a song is more from the heart than ANY other words spoken.

RR



Sadey -> RE: Need some advice (5/17/2008 10:18:15 AM)

The thing that stands out to me is that God put this young man smack in the middle of your life for a reason. Maybe you are to mentor him? He sounds very unsure of himself and needs encouragement. The more controlling someone is the less self confidence they have.

Could you look at it from his stand point? He is put in charge of ministry and there you are, someone old enough to be this father, someone who has been in charge of the praise team for years, ect ect. He is probably feeling defensive. And if he is in charge of all the music then that must mean he is in charge of you? Whoops!!!!! Its a touchy situation.

As the older person I feel you have the greater responsibility in this. If you could love this young man, be encouraging and build him up I think you'd be amazed at the change.
God Bless and just remember God put him where he did for a reason.



Russski1 -> RE: Need some advice (5/26/2008 5:40:51 PM)

What more could be said? You have plany of input to consider.

Couple of things to summarize:

1. The music minister is young, ill-informed, insecure and obvisouly sees you as a threat to his authority. This is all about youth....

2. You are seasoned- You know how to get things done... You may tend to see these young whipersnappers as less than serious. I'm just kidding... But you are from different cultures.... There's the rub....

3. You are taking the high ground.... You've obviously learned that there are all sorts of personalities in the church. Worship teams tend to have intense personalities. The potential for conflict is thus ever present.

I've all said too much... and probably repeated everyone else.... Your encouragement to the young man will help him to see you are not a threat and he will relax in time..... In time......

You're doing fine!

prw



crm4souls -> RE: Need some advice (6/2/2008 12:41:49 AM)

Praise & Worship is from the heart of man to God.
Preaching is proclaiming God's Word, it is from the heart of God to man.
They both come from our lips, but one is directed to God while the other is directed to man.



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