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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/8/2008 11:22:26 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3415
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
James arrived at the scene a bit afterwards and he pulled Susan’s hand. He is usually even-tempered, but he raised his voice (“You’re going home NOW!”). He jerked Susan’s hand in anger and gave her a “knock” on her head with his knuckle (it was the first time I ever saw him physically punish his daughter). It wasn’t particularly a hard strike, but it was enough to hurt. Susan began to cry immediately.
While I agree that hitting your child in the head is never the right thing to do, it sounds to me like this Dad "knocked his daughter on her head with his knuckle" out of frustration. He didn't actually hit her in the head with his open hand or fist, he just gave her a sharp "noogie." Admittedly not the right thing to do, but, imho, understandable under certain circumstances.
Let he/she who has never done anything to their kids out of sheer frustration (that they've later regretted) cast the first stone! If you say you haven't, walk tall and proud. I'll just be humbled, because I cannot make that claim.
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 5/8/2008 11:29:15 AM >
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
I weep for those who won't experience this because they have been deceived.
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/8/2008 11:42:40 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1729
Joined: 5/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Let he/she who has never done anything to their kids out of sheer frustration (that they've later regretted) cast the first stone! If you say you haven't, walk tall and proud. I'll just be humbled, because I cannot make that claim.
I am not surprised you wrote something like this.
Your earlier post, in which you said that I as a family friend/non-parent had "such a keen interest in your friend's parenting practices," to the point that you've noticed 'this is not the first thread [I]'ve had concerning them," and that '...it's none of your business unless you think they are being truly abusive" shows me you personalized this story to an extent, and you therefore said that it was strange I was talking about James and his wife as parents and that it's not my business.
Sure it's not. But if James and his wife have had me babysit on occasion, then perhaps they trust me enough as a family friend to tell them what occurred as I happened to witness it all, yes?
I'm not saying this to attack you but I feel that my story and/or the other parents' statements here hit a raw nerve, perhaps reminding you of something similar you've done to your own kids when they did something wrong.
I haven't - cuz I... have no kids.
In any case, Susan and Shane are fine, and all I wanted was feedback. Have a nice day Kat_D.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/8/2008 2:04:53 PM
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ladyingrace1979
Posts: 214
Joined: 3/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
Let he/she who has never done anything to their kids out of sheer frustration (that they've later regretted) cast the first stone! If you say you haven't, walk tall and proud. I'll just be humbled, because I cannot make that claim.
I am not surprised you wrote something like this.
Your earlier post, in which you said that I as a family friend/non-parent had "such a keen interest in your friend's parenting practices," to the point that you've noticed 'this is not the first thread [I]'ve had concerning them," and that '...it's none of your business unless you think they are being truly abusive" shows me you personalized this story to an extent, and you therefore said that it was strange I was talking about James and his wife as parents and that it's not my business.
Sure it's not. But if James and his wife have had me babysit on occasion, then perhaps they trust me enough as a family friend to tell them what occurred as I happened to witness it all, yes?
I'm not saying this to attack you but I feel that my story and/or the other parents' statements here hit a raw nerve, perhaps reminding you of something similar you've done to your own kids when they did something wrong.
I haven't - cuz I... have no kids.
In any case, Susan and Shane are fine, and all I wanted was feedback. Have a nice day Kat_D.
I don't think you have done anything wrong by asking a question about two kids you care about. If people don't question then really bad things can happen. If you hit a nerve with some here then maybe they need to get thicker skins, or maybe they are feeling a bit guilty. I stand by my comments, hitting a child is never appropriate. If you are that angry it's time to give yourself a time out to cool down.
It's good that you care and that you are asking questions.
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/8/2008 2:08:57 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1108
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i think you two entirely missed kat's point.
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/9/2008 7:15:59 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1704
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Rich
I think it's great you are asking questions before you actually are in a situation dealing with your own kids...but I also think we don't always realize we can generalize all day, but when it comes down to our OWN kids and not someone elses our reactions are likely to be different.
There is really no predicting human emotions and for parent's one of the most emotional things can be situations that involve our kids.
Kids are everyone's business and I think it's great you care about your friend's children. I certainly would rather have a friend who cared than someone who didn't around mine, and yes, I would appreciate your telling me what you saw happen.
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/9/2008 2:20:03 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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Rich, I think your friends were in the wrong that day, however, I think people like you and me need to be careful. We don't have kids, and we can never really know what it is like to have that duty 24/7. It's tough. Just when I taught preschool full time, it was tough, and I still got to leave it at the end of the day. I'm sure when you're the parent, you just get plain exhausted and worn out at times.
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PLEASE come to this thread:
Tell about YOU in school
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/9/2008 4:05:27 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1729
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You know, I don't mean to sound harsh but some of you people are simply not getting it. It appears to me that you are letting other ideas or perhaps misunderstandings about my intentions affect what you say to me in reply.
A careful reading of my opening post will indicate I have no criticism, anger, or judgment of what James or his wife did. I have repeatedly stated here in these threads (to those of you who have noticed I write about my friends and their children, who by the way LOVE me and I am NOT exaggerating) that I learn by observing and ask questions to you who are parents so I can LEARN.
At NO point did I mean to judge or attack the actions James or his wife took. I agree with those who said James' "knuckle knock" was harsh all the more because it was the first time I ever saw him do it and because I know his daughter is extremely sensitive - and because I was saddened to see her being physically disciplined and to see her break out in tears.
I have SEEN them tired and exhausted; I have HELPED them when they were in need. I have been at their home when one of them - specifically, James' wife - returns home from her job as I am babysitting or simply hanging out with James and also assisting him in watching the kids. I know how tiring his schedule is - he works 6 days a week, starting by arising before 7AM - and have also participated in his execution of his personal business, sometimes because of pragmatism, sometimes because he needed my help.
James and his wife aren't perfect but they're raising their children healthily in a clean environment where they keep their children safe from trash on TV and the Internet (James polices Susan's online activities like the Gestapo; pardon for my use of a Nazi organization, but I'm frustrated with some of you and feel I need to resort to blunt language to convey my point while minimizing the possibility of any further misinterpretations on your part, folks); they have her in an expensive private school, they drive her to and pick her up from school daily, and they live in a very safe and lovely upper-middle-class neighborhood I only hope and dream to be able to live in perhaps one day.
Some of you appear to have personalized what I said and got defensive. I say you may wish to be more impartial and to separate your own experiences from what you feel a single person is saying online when he asks questions to parents. Isn't my own admission of having no children and thus no parenting experience enough evidence I'm seeking the feedback of those who HAVE that very experience?
Sometimes I wonder whether people read carefully enough before hitting the "reply" icon. Sheesh.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/9/2008 4:12:22 PM
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TammyIsBlessed
Posts: 1703
Status: online
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I do think they over-reacted to the situation.
Maybe I'm not 100% understanding how closely they were/were not being supervised - but honestly, I do not constantly supervise my children when they play together - I'd never get anything done! I don't leave my baby with my 3 yr old unattended of course, but I will leave the 3, 5 and 7 yr old to play together within earshot. Of course minor accidents occasionally happen but it's really not that big of a deal. None of our kids have ever suffered more than a bump or a scrape yet.
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/9/2008 4:17:46 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5215
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
(James polices Susan's online activities like the Gestapo.....)
She is allowed online at seven years old?
Wow, is all I can say.
But that's another topic.
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"I have nothing to add, except to agree with Manda."
(agapetos, July 2008)
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/9/2008 4:40:49 PM
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cindybode
Posts: 1465
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Northwest PA
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I don't usually jump in on these things, but . . .
Your friends overreacted.
However, one of the things that kinda jumps out at me is the general overreaction of most adults to the bumps, scrapes, and bruises that really are a normal part of childhood. No one was seriously hurt here. These kind of things sometimes happen when kids play. If it had been me, I would have asked Susan to apologize (because we apologize when we hurt someone, even if it was unintentional), mopped Shane up, assured him that he was in fact going to live, and sent them both back to play.
It's not just those of you in this thread - I get calls on the advice line all the time from parents whose kid got a minor little scrape. For heaven's sake, has everyone forgotten what band-aids are? 
_____________________________
If you lock in any creature, from rats to chickens to pigs to people, 10 to 30 or more in a box and force feed them you'll create little monsters. Confinement Education School Operations (CESOs) just don't compare to naturally pastured free-ranged kids.
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/9/2008 6:47:40 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1729
Joined: 5/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
are rich, james and susan the real names of people in this thread? cuz if so, the internet is a small world and it's a bit dangerous to include their names.
LOL
Yes. My real name is Richard La Puerta. I was born in Andalucia, Spain; my parents took me to the South American country of Colombia when I was 4 and I've been here since age 8. I am a fourth-degree cousin of KIng Juan Carlos of Spain, but the wily old man won't recognize me as a relative. Sucks that I can't participate in them royal family vacations.
I live in Manhattan, part of New York City. You can find me on the upper east side; I'm on East 83th Street between 2nd and 3rd Avenues. My cell is 646-000-0000.
James' last name is Jameson, and he operates a newspaper in Manhattan; he is a fierce critic of a young man with spider-like abilities.
Ah never mind, Manda59. I have no common sense. Maybe I should put up my social security number here as well.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/9/2008 7:12:33 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10716
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
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quote:
However, one of the things that kinda jumps out at me is the general overreaction of most adults to the bumps, scrapes, and bruises that really are a normal part of childhood. No one was seriously hurt here. These kind of things sometimes happen when kids play. If it had been me, I would have asked Susan to apologize (because we apologize when we hurt someone, even if it was unintentional), mopped Shane up, assured him that he was in fact going to live, and sent them both back to play.
_____________________________
Does God see?
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen,
but on what is unseen. 2 Cor. 4:18
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/9/2008 9:05:23 PM
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thisistheday
Posts: 11527
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I agree with Cindy.
Yes, they overreacted. I think most of us parents have at times though.
When my kids are playing I try not to be too harsh if something happens and I didn't see exactly what it was. Generally no one is seriously hurt anyway.
I think that there can especially be a tendency to be too hard on the oldest child. We also don't know if this particular thing has been addressed with Susan before.
Dee
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/9/2008 11:42:52 PM
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TammyIsBlessed
Posts: 1703
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cindybode
I don't usually jump in on these things, but . . .
Your friends overreacted.
However, one of the things that kinda jumps out at me is the general overreaction of most adults to the bumps, scrapes, and bruises that really are a normal part of childhood. No one was seriously hurt here. These kind of things sometimes happen when kids play. If it had been me, I would have asked Susan to apologize (because we apologize when we hurt someone, even if it was unintentional), mopped Shane up, assured him that he was in fact going to live, and sent them both back to play.
It's not just those of you in this thread - I get calls on the advice line all the time from parents whose kid got a minor little scrape. For heaven's sake, has everyone forgotten what band-aids are?
That's what I was trying to say - only you said it better. 
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/10/2008 7:33:23 AM
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peculiar_lady2
Posts: 11987
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From: Between Hither and Yon
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I have been following along on this one since it started, but didn't post yet...cause there wasn't anyone I fully agreed with...until now. I agree with Cindy!!! In our house, scrapes, bruises, bumps happen. We patch them up and go on with life. (OK, our kids must be weird or addicted to bandaids, cause they don't even come to tell us about half of their bumps....they just to get a bandaid and put it on there...lol). As far as how your friends acted, well....I will just say it's not how WE would have reacted to the situation...if a child needs a time out it would have been for a few minutes there on the deck with us, or in the vehicle away from everyone, but they would not have been banned from the BBQ because they got a little rough. We don't do things like that. I think that punishment was a bit harsh given the age of the child and what really happened. Kids will be kids and will have to learn lessons, but I don't see making them miss a whole day of fun for something as small as that. I can't say for sure, because it has never happened, but even if it needed stitches I doubt we would have reacted that harshly with the older child. The things in our house that would have gotten such strict punishment as that would be things like...playing with matches, purposely beating up their sibling, etc..things that were intentional.
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"Some [babies] are just so inexplicably persnickety and unpleasing that it's easy to imagine that they were not actually floating in amniotic fluid but in pickle juice!" -Maggie (3cappuccinosmom)
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/10/2008 9:16:03 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4869
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
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quote:
Sure it's not. But if James and his wife have had me babysit on occasion, then perhaps they trust me enough as a family friend to tell them what occurred as I happened to witness it all, yes?
Do they know you are posting on the internet about their situation? 'Cause if I were your friends and I discovered it, whether you used my real name or not I'd recognize the situation and I would be totally humiliated and probably wouldn't ever trust you again.
_____________________________
<--My engagement picture. I was 16, he was 17 in this photo.
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/10/2008 10:00:35 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1729
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
Sure it's not. But if James and his wife have had me babysit on occasion, then perhaps they trust me enough as a family friend to tell them what occurred as I happened to witness it all, yes?
Do they know you are posting on the internet about their situation? 'Cause if I were your friends and I discovered it, whether you used my real name or not I'd recognize the situation and I would be totally humiliated and probably wouldn't ever trust you again.
No. They do not. But I change the names well enough and given that we're scattered all over the world (literally), and that there are millions of households with children just like these, I speculate they won't know it's THEM. Besides, the other times I wrote about them I wrote very neutral or plainly positive things about them (such as how Susan loves to hug me and is adorable and obedient).
Furthermore, I post about MYSELF here - about my family, women who annoy the lights out of me, disagreements with friends - and I change names to protect their privacy. And I am FAR from alone in talking about my personal issues here. Does that mean I am betraying the trust of those whom I talk about here?
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/10/2008 10:13:47 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4869
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
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quote:
No. They do not. But I change the names well enough and given that we're scattered all over the world (literally), and that there are millions of households with children just like these, I speculate they won't know it's THEM. Besides, the other times I wrote about them I wrote very neutral or plainly positive things about them (such as how Susan loves to hug me and is adorable and obedient).
I think they would recognize the situation if it was something that just recently happen to them. It's happened before on here. It's a very real possibility.
quote:
Furthermore, I post about MYSELF here - about my family, women who annoy the lights out of me, disagreements with friends - and I change names to protect their privacy. And I am FAR from alone in talking about my personal issues here. Does that mean I am betraying the trust of those whom I talk about here?
Many people here post things that I personally wouldn't.
quote:
Perhaps it could become a new TOS here that no-one is allowed to post about anyone else here without their prior permission?
I'm not talking about the terms of service. I'm not even a moderator anymore. He just mentioned that his friends trust him. If I had a friend that was posting stuff about my personal issues on the internet, I wouldn't trust them. That's just me.
_____________________________
<--My engagement picture. I was 16, he was 17 in this photo.
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/10/2008 10:20:27 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5215
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
I'm not talking about the terms of service. I'm not even a moderator anymore. He just mentioned that his friends trust him. If I had a friend that was posting stuff about my personal issues on the internet, I wouldn't trust them. That's just me.
Thing is, Rich hasn't said anything against his friends - he's just questioning what they did and asking us as to whether we'd parent a similar situation in a similar way. (My parents would have likely done exactly the same - I got many an excessive telling-off when I was a kid, having a younger brother 4 years younger than myself).
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"I have nothing to add, except to agree with Manda."
(agapetos, July 2008)
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RE: Were my friends too harsh? - 5/10/2008 12:09:37 PM
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peculiar_lady2
Posts: 11987
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: Between Hither and Yon
Status: offline
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quote:
I'm not talking about the terms of service. I'm not even a moderator anymore. He just mentioned that his friends trust him. If I had a friend that was posting stuff about my personal issues on the internet, I wouldn't trust them. That's just me.
me either Lisa....that would be way too hard for me to get over. It is a totally different thing when you are posting about YOU or your family (kids), but when it is about someone else or their family I think it is the polite thing to ask their permission before doing so. I even do that with my hubby...I don't post anything about him that he hasn't read first.
_____________________________
"Some [babies] are just so inexplicably persnickety and unpleasing that it's easy to imagine that they were not actually floating in amniotic fluid but in pickle juice!" -Maggie (3cappuccinosmom)
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