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SonInMe1 -> RE: Do You Struggle? (5/8/2008 8:32:04 AM)
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Hbr 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Hbr 6:2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
Hbr 6:3 And this we will do, if God permits.
Hbr 6:4 For in the case of those Hbr 6:7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
Hbr 6:8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
How does this jive with the prodigal son? The scripture about us not being seperated from God? You can take any scripture and make any dopctrine from it but if you don't take the entirity of scripture into account on every doctrinal point, you can't make any point.
This scripture also proves my point.
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who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Hbr 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Hbr 6:6 and {then} have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
It says you can't be Holy Spirit indwellt and fall away because to do so would mean you would have to crucify Christ again. You can distance yourself a long ways, without completely falling away, just as the prodigal son did. He went away and he came back. He knew his father ( as we know the Father), decided his ways were best and found out they weren't. He came back.
We all do this. Every sin is a seperation from God in a sence.
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But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure.
There is nothing I have said that disagrees with this. Its not a statement that we can lose our salvation. Its a statement of encouragement to endure to the end, to win the race.
We can be saved and going to heaven and live a hell on earth because we are not obediant
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For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins
No Holy Spirit indwellt person can sin without conviction from the Holy Spirit. This is all this says.
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This is apostasy and we can walk away. To say that we can't is false. We have free will.
Sorry but you do not have free will if you are Holy Spirit indwellt. You cannot walk away from God. You can sin, no doubt. You can blow God off for a time, no question but a saved person cannot unsave himself or what Jesus did on the cross is meaningless.
Jesus saved us through the cross. Jesus saves.
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The "easy believism" or "sloppay agape
I don't know about your walk. I do know to be Holy Spirit indwellt is NOT easy. My beliefs are NOT an excuse to sin.
My beliefs are in recognition of who God is, who I am not, who is in control, and the fact I am not perfect. You aren't either. I was saved by God, not my will power. Not some free will choice. By God. I can't keep my salvation without God. I can't do good without God. All glory for all good things goes to God, 100% of the time.
I ain't sittin' around waitin' for God to cure my sins. I work at it too. The bible says to. I just know I can't overcome them without God. Its by His power. I supply the submission...with His help. He supplies the power.
Any works based gospel is heresy. Its getting the cart before the horse. Yes, we have works but these come from salvation, they do not keep it. All of our works come from God. If we have to do works to keep our salvation then Christ climbed the cross for nothing. We should all be under the Law.
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I know for myself, I'd begun to wonder why when I witnessed to people telling them about God's love and how they could be forgiven, why it didn't seem to convict
Because its not your job to convict anyone. Its the Holy Spirit's job. Either they are not part of the Elect ( something we can never know I think ) or the Holy Spirit isn't done bringing them to the Lord yet.
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I find that Jesus Christ was very plain with His speach, "Repent, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."
Jesus also know His audience better than we do. I'm not trying to be mean here or anything but it seems you are suggesting we all should go the street preacher route to witnessing. It does have its place, but don't you think most people have heard the hellfire and damnation sermons?
I am not sure that is an effective witness.
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As long as you have that free car and are on good terms with Him you can drive it anywhere. You are assured that He will always fill up the tank, have it serviced, and keep it clean. But when you rebel, and refuse to follow the terms of service, the car is recinded. The car will ALWAYS be a car, it will always be serviced by Him, always clean--but you, may reject it.
This would be living in constant fear....or you must rdefine sin into something it is not. You essentially are saying if we sin we go to hell.
Let me tell ya...no one can reject God once they know Him. No one. Its impossible. Once God is in you, you cannot seperate yourself from Him.
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