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PastorLola -> Question :) (5/7/2008 7:04:51 PM)
How would you answer this question? Describe the outcome (i.e. behavior/heart/beliefs) of the discipleship process. In other words, how would you gauge if discipleship was occurring in your Ministry? Would your answer change any if I specified children's ministry?

DaveW -> RE: Question :) (5/8/2008 7:27:31 AM)
Our senior rabbi gave a sermon on judging the efficacy of someone's discipleship last weekend.

techne -> RE: Question :) (5/8/2008 8:42:15 AM)
and? [:)]

DaveW -> RE: Question :) (5/8/2008 12:51:19 PM)
I don't have the notes here. I can ask him for the sermon (he types them out) and forward it to you.

PastorLola -> RE: Question :) (5/8/2008 1:05:01 PM)
Oh wow I would love that!

woodwind228 -> RE: Question :) (5/8/2008 10:41:25 PM)
I went through a discipleship program at my church that I thought was wonderful. It is a one-on-one approach where you have a mentor that goes through a book with you ("A Call To Joy, Encouraging the Growing Believer"). (The mentor is "Paul" and the one being discipled is "Timothy".) It was written by Billie Hanks, Jr. Once you've been through it, there's a second book you can go through together. When I started it, I got a book and also a spiritual journal. Here's the website listed on the back cover of the book: www.ieaom.org I don't know if they might have something specifically for children or not.

brothertodd -> RE: Question :) (5/10/2008 4:04:45 AM)
Discipleship is my ministry. why? Because the church of today is failing miserably in this area. todays church has endorsed consumerism. Flasy, entertaining, feelgood messages that people want to hear, and overshadow messages of sin, and the redemptive process, and even the sacrfice on the cross. Now to disciple those that are in the church, familiarity with the word, make the reading habitual. Not necessarily to memorize but to familirize. So when reading a book or hearing a sermon/teaching and this teaching is not right they can hold it in light of scripture and to hold on to the truth and astain from the false. Next and this not only for believers but unbelievers is to meet a need. If you noticed in the gospels, when Jesus discipled someone a need was met. This should come first, it shows you care about them. One mistake we often make is assulting them with the gospel[good news] first, which can trigger a turn off switch, and you have lost them. So meet a need (however there will be times when no need is needed- thenan offer of "is there anything I can do for you...no..ok..just let me know if you change your mind.) The callback...this is crucial, especially when witnessing, again this shows you care, and call back on them within a week. This is one of the reasons my family and I went back to achurch (and it became our home church) was that one of there elders had visited us within a week from visiting that church. And the hardest and a vary important part of discipler's life is we are required, as in mandatory to be avalable 24/7, 365 to be in season and out. No matter where we are or with, and no matter what the out come. The end of Matthew and Mark Has given us the great commission. Read in your own bible (this will help in the lines of familiarity instead of just reading it here).. Matthew- Mark-- 8:34-38/13:13 Luke--9:23-27,62/14:26-27,33 John--15:18-19 This is just a sample of the cost and what we face. In the long run what we loose here will be gain in the kingdom. The Church is failing in the subject of discipleship, in an issue of newsweek a couple of years ago it stated the top church in growth was the Mormon Church, this is because they disciple. Here are some good resourses to use... 12 Ordinary Men, and Fools Gold (on discernment) by John MacArthur, Disciples are Made Not Born by Walter A Hendrichsen, and On Being a Servant of God by Warren W. Wiersbe God Bless

futuremartyr -> RE: Question :) (5/10/2008 11:34:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PastorLola How would you answer this question? Describe the outcome (i.e. behavior/heart/beliefs) of the discipleship process. In other words, how would you gauge if discipleship was occurring in your Ministry? Would your answer change any if I specified children's ministry? 1 on 1 instruction from an older believerbto a new believer, no different for kids. The fruit seen would be spiritual growth for both parties.

woodwind228 -> RE: Question :) (5/10/2008 12:14:01 PM)
quote: Because the church of today is failing miserably in this area. todays church has endorsed consumerism. Flasy, entertaining, feelgood messages that people want to hear, and overshadow messages of sin, and the redemptive process, and even the sacrfice on the cross. Now to disciple those that are in the church, familiarity with the word, make the reading habitual. Not necessarily to memorize but to familirize. So when reading a book or hearing a sermon/teaching and this teaching is not right they can hold it in light of scripture and to hold on to the truth and astain from the false. Ain't that the truth!! The Bible warns of false prophets and if we don't know the Scripture we won't be able to recognize false teachings very well, if at all. The whole Bible must be preached...not just the feel-good stuff. And yes, you have to show compassion and love to them also. If they know you genuinely care, they are more likely to listen. Develop a relationship. Right on, BrotherTodd.

buckifn -> RE: Question :) (5/10/2008 4:20:02 PM)
well first of all if you have to go back and ask the pastor for his sermon notes I would say that was a very ineffective sermon... as for is your teaching method working..I would say the way to know is by seeing fruit produced in an indiv. life. If you can't see a difference there usually is no difference.

gmc4Jesus -> RE: Question :) (5/10/2008 7:58:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brothertodd Discipleship is my ministry. why? Because the church of today is failing miserably in this area. todays church has endorsed consumerism. Flasy, entertaining, feelgood messages that people want to hear, and overshadow messages of sin, and the redemptive process, and even the sacrfice on the cross. Now to disciple those that are in the church, familiarity with the word, make the reading habitual. Not necessarily to memorize but to familirize. So when reading a book or hearing a sermon/teaching and this teaching is not right they can hold it in light of scripture and to hold on to the truth and astain from the false. The Church is failing in the subject of discipleship, in an issue of newsweek a couple of years ago it stated the top church in growth was the Mormon Church, this is because they disciple. Here are some good resourses to use... 12 Ordinary Men, and Fools Gold (on discernment) by John MacArthur, Disciples are Made Not Born by Walter A Hendrichsen, and On Being a Servant of God by Warren W. Wiersbe God Bless Likewise, brothertodd, my ministry is discipleship. While I care deeply about evangelism, I realize that my gift is more in teaching new and mature believers about how they can become more like Christ by studying His life and teachings. Jesus is a role model as well as a Savior. Regarding the church failing in discipleship, over 40 years ago, my brother-in-law comment about how so many churches win someone to Christ and then leave them on their own to mature in their Christian walk. No wonder so many fall away. They don't get the fertilizer, water and help that they need to grow to maturity. In full truth, times have not changed. In many of the churches I have visited or am familiar with, the immaturity of members is appauling. There has always been a need for more effective discipleship. Over thirty years ago, I put together a Discipleship program and worked to implement it. I have also used other people's discipleship books and programs at various times. Currently, I am teaching the life and teachings of Jesus, focusing on Him as a role model. Since it is all about getting to know Jesus and serving Him, wouldn't it seem logical to focus on what He taught and did? God bless you as you labor to build the Body of Christ so they will evangelize the lost and build the Body of Christ.

deliveredarling -> RE: Question :) (5/10/2008 9:06:34 PM)
quote: Regarding the church failing in discipleship, over 40 years ago, my brother-in-law comment about how so many churches win someone to Christ and then leave them on their own to mature in their Christian walk. No wonder so many fall away. They don't get the fertilizer, water and help that they need to grow to mat We bear a responsibility in this ourselves. When the HS fills us, there is a desire there to learn more, to grow more, to know Him better. That desire is not based on whether or not someone is leading and guiding us (a physical person). We have to search and look for ourselves. If that desire is based on whether someone is holding our hand, I question whether the decision was sincere. If the desire goes away, was it just an emotional experience? I'm not saying that the church doesn't have any responsibility in this. I am saying that the church has the responsibility to encourage personal growth. Otherwise we leave room for the "fallen" to blame the church for their own failure. We have seen too much of that. Beside that, that need to know, that desire to know, isn't that bearing fruit?

techne -> RE: Question :) (5/11/2008 1:05:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PastorLola Describe the outcome (i.e. behavior/heart/beliefs) of the discipleship process. In other words, how would you gauge if discipleship was occurring in your Ministry? my starting point would be hebrews 6.1,2: therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in G-d, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. if those elementary teachings were established, i would think that discipleship is well on the way, and fruitfulness would be quite evident. quote: ORIGINAL: PastorLola Would your answer change any if I specified children's ministry? no.

pstrdebi -> RE: Question :) (5/12/2008 1:28:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brothertodd Discipleship is my ministry. why? Because the church of today is failing miserably in this area. todays church has endorsed consumerism. Flasy, entertaining, feelgood messages that people want to hear, and overshadow messages of sin, and the redemptive process, and even the Scarface on the cross. Now to disciple those that are in the church, familiarity with the word, make the reading habitual. Not necessarily to memorize but to familirize. So when reading a book or hearing a sermon/teaching and this teaching is not right they can hold it in light of scripture and to hold on to the truth and astain from the false. Here are some good resourses to use... 12 Ordinary Men, and Fools Gold (on discernment) by John MacArthur, Disciples are Made Not Born by Walter A Hendrichsen, and On Being a Servant of God by Warren W. Wiersbe God Bless You Rock Brother Todd!! This has been our observation for quite some time... however, getting people to understand that the church is failing is another thing in and of itself. So many have been taken over by the "feel good, no conviction" mentality and that is what they are teaching. I mentioned before in another thread that the pastor from the largest church in America stood up at a pastors conference and said that he would never preach the blood or the cross because it "offends people." We have really been struggling with that one. And whether the church is big or small... discipleship of the truth is long past due. I agree with the resource of Warren Wiersbe (I love that guy!)... haven't read the others, but will have to check them out! God bless... Pastor Debi

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Question :) (5/12/2008 1:40:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: buckifn well first of all if you have to go back and ask the pastor for his sermon notes I would say that was a very ineffective sermon... as for is your teaching method working..I would say the way to know is by seeing fruit produced in an indiv. life. If you can't see a difference there usually is no difference. [:D] Synagogue is not like church, buckifn. [:)]

DaveW -> RE: Question :) (5/13/2008 6:31:16 AM)
quote: Synagogue is not like church That is true. Anyway, here is his summary: Benchmarks are valuable in helping us self-assess so we can improve and advance in Kingdom life and service. Here are the six benchmarks in review: The first and most foundational benchmark of a discipled believer is his having faith � that is, listening for God�s voice, and being willing to act on what he hears that he knows to be Him. The second benchmark of a discipled believer is his refusing to act on feelings and emotions, and acting instead on what he knows to be the will of God. The third benchmark of a discipled believer is his regularly studying the Scriptures for knowledge of their contents, because they reveal the will of God for him personally, and for humanity broadly. The fifth benchmark of a discipled believer is his willingness to rid himself of all idols in his life. The sixth benchmark of a discipled believer is his being fastidious in the weightier matters of the law, while not ignoring the less weighty ones, but keeping them in a proper perspective. These benchmarks are for each of us to examine ourselves � not for us to examine our neighbor. We know ourselves � how willing we are to do what God calls us to do; our neighbor cannot see inside of us to judge that. Finally, let�s remember that the benchmarks together add up to Yeshua�s reply in Matthew 22:37-40: �You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." May we all deeply feel the truth of Yeshua�s words and be eager and excited to follow his example, and to be his disciple. Used by permission � 2008 Michael Rudolph, D.Min., J.D., Th.M. Edited to add: To the OP: contact me and I will send you the whole message.

HisFish -> RE: Question :) (5/13/2008 11:48:18 AM)
quote: Discipleship is my ministry. why? Because the church of today is failing miserably in this area. Amen to that BrotherTodd," sign 'em up and move on to the next" has been the motto of too many of todays churches it seems. May the Lord bless you greatly in what He has called you to do.[:)]

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